Author Topic: Bradley or Sully: Who do you trade?  (Read 10499 times)

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Re: Bradley or Sully: Who do you trade?
« Reply #45 on: November 27, 2012, 05:42:23 PM »

Offline Evantime34

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You trade Sullinger because his ceiling is limited with his athleticism. Bradley already plays elite defense has good habits and is a very good athlete.
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Re: Bradley or Sully: Who do you trade?
« Reply #46 on: November 27, 2012, 05:44:27 PM »

Offline Vermont Green

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For all those who are selling on Sullinger, be careful when you compare Sullinger so far this year with what you think Bradley will be this year.  Think if we were having this conversation and Bradley was still a rookie as well.  He was pretty bad that year as compared to Sullinger this year.

I am not saying that Sullinger is more of a keeper than Bradley, just playing devil's advocate a little.  Sullinger will get better just like Bradley did (and will continue to).

My bottom line would be to keep Bradley becasue he is more valuable (assuming recovery from surgeries) this year and we need to stay in the present with this team.

Re: Bradley or Sully: Who do you trade?
« Reply #47 on: November 27, 2012, 05:52:38 PM »

Offline Eja117

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D Wade hopes we trade Avery

Re: Bradley or Sully: Who do you trade?
« Reply #48 on: November 27, 2012, 05:56:55 PM »

Offline bfrombleacher

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I'd trade neither.

But if I absolutely had to, I'd trade AB simply because we do have defense from CLee and plenty of guards. Having a decent big man on the team next to KG pretty much means we're unbeatable. The thought of that is incredibly alluring.

I'm, however, on the side of those who think if this team can figure it out, it's a contender for the next 3 years.

All of our young players' values will only go up at this point.

Plus a core of AB, Rondo, Sully, Bass is solid contenders when you add another star.

Re: Bradley or Sully: Who do you trade?
« Reply #49 on: November 27, 2012, 06:05:36 PM »

Offline Lightskinsmurf

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D Wade hopes we trade Avery

lol hell yeah. I recall somebody telling avery to "Chill out" on defense because he was playing so well all game long it was annoying the other team LOL!.

Re: Bradley or Sully: Who do you trade?
« Reply #50 on: November 27, 2012, 06:19:23 PM »

Offline More Banners

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Trading either would have to be a win-now move, which means Sully is the one to go, being less able to contribute in the Finals this year.

But I'm not sure I want to bother to give up anything on the roster in trade to simply return another journeyman.  Maybe Melo, but I'm keeping Joseph even.  It's just not worth the trouble to reshuffle the chairs.

But if it comes down to trading up for a current allstart talent (or nearly so), I'd have to say do what it takes.  But I'm so high on both that I think I'd have a hard time letting both go for anything but a star or allstar.

Bradley, Sullinger, Joseph, Pick is one heck of a start to a package, especially when they can be matched with two journeymen starters, a guard (Lee) and forward (Bass).  Add it up, and it's a nice deal to a rebuilding team:

Lee+Bass=$11M+Bradley+Sullinger=$15M-$16M for an allstar?

What's left:

Rondo/Barbosa
Terry/_______
Pierce/Green/Joseph
________/Wilcox
KG/Collins/Melo

Need to add a couple of min contracts or take back 2nd rounders or something cheap to stay under the cap, but that's a rotation that coule make it with, oh, say, Josh Smith extended? 

Enough chips to cash in, enough horses to win with that rotation+Smith?

I say trade all or none!



Re: Bradley or Sully: Who do you trade?
« Reply #51 on: November 27, 2012, 06:21:27 PM »

Offline dtrader

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I'd give up Bradley.

Sully has a much higher basketball IQ and does a lot more of the little things that help a team win games. Bradley is good at one thing and one thing only and that's man defense; Sully will make the extra pass, use his body to box out and rebound, make smart cuts to the basket... He has more range on his jumper than Bradley as well.

Lockdown defenders come and go but finding a basketball player as smart as Sully at such a young age is hard to do. Sully has boundless potential, very likely to be the next Paul Millsap. Bradley at best is Tony Allen with a corner 3. Give me the heady, all-around talent to the defensive specialist all day every day.

Best of luck with your career, AB, hope things work out for the best.

Well, bradley isn't just GOOD at defense, hes excellent, elite, superb, one of the best in the game. Sully is good at some things but he isnt great at anything or elite. He can be replaced alot easier than bradley can. Also, defensive players like AB do not just come and go i assure you lol.
depends on the type of player Bradley is guarding on just how good his defense is.  He is susceptible to the bigger stronger SG's just backing him down or posting him up.  He does well against the smaller quicker guys (like a Wade), but a guy like Kobe Bryant just brutalizes him because of his size.

I don't recall AB ever getting brutalized. Not saying it didn't happen but i don't recall. Can you point it out?


Gordon Hayward, Gerald Henderson, and joe Johnson were all able to use their height to get anything they wanted over Bradley. John wall was able to use his speed to run by Bradley at will. If Bradley's defense was judged simply against shooting guards (his position), he wouldn't even be average.  Fortunately for him, we've been able to put him against PGs more often than not, and have other players cover for the opposing SG. Plus, even of they don't "come and go", I don't think there's ever Been a player elected to an all star game or even considered a star, who was a liability on offense (which Bradley has been the majority of his career, and IMO would continue to be if he was given any respect by opposing defenders or showcased on a team where he wasn't surrounded by other scorers).

Id easily let Bradley go before sully. You can't teach height. Bradley will always be undersized to play SG (if he learned to dribble or pass like a Point guard I'd take away this entire judgement and let sully go).  Silly has good size, strength, and skills for his position. The league is moving towards shorter more mobile post players, and bigger stronger wings. That trend favors sully, and will increasingly expose Bradley.

I don't recall any of those moments so i can't comment. All i can tell you is our defense was the best in the league once AB was inserted into the starting lineup. To say that is a coincidence is nothing short of ignorance. Also once KG moved to center.

Also i like sully don't get me wrong but bradleys defense is harder to replace than sullys........what? Rebounding. Gortat replaces sullys rebounding easily. Sully doesn't shoot the ball any better than ab. Are you forgetting sully is also undersized at his position? He gets blocked dang near every time he goes up for a shot. What does sully do that can't be replaced by gortat? Nothing. Ab on the other hand, hes a special kind of breed.

The fact that you're using gortat (a true center whos arguably top 10 at his center position), to a rookie PF says a lot.  Add in the fact that gortat is a sought after player with a 7 + million contract that most think is cheap, and you see even more where sullys value can be.  Additionally, sully ( for his position), is a great rebounder, above average passer, and well above average ball handler. As I explained before, the league is moving towards smaller front courts and bigger stronger wings, so size is only against Bradley.

You're talking about Bradley's defense being irreplaceable, but what defense are you talking about?  When have you seen him lock down a premiere shooting guard? Supposedly that's his position, but I've never seen it.  He's had a few highlight reel plays, but in total, I've never seen him shut down a good SG. He has destroyed second tier point guards. I agree the celts played great when he was starting, but like you said...that's also due to KGs increased production moving to center, and the fact that Brandon bass had a stretch of some of the best games of his career.

In my eyes, Avery Bradley is so far a one trick pony. He excels at guarding other small players (especially those slower than him).  He is a below average shooter at the 2 spot, and he is a below average ball handler and passer than most starting guards.  I think he literally averages about as many turnovers as he does assists. He's a below average rebounder at his position as well.

At his position (PF), sully is above average across the board, and borderline elite at rebounding.  His only area of weakness ( if you can even call it that since hes a great defensive rebounder), is defense, and almost every rookie big man struggles there.


Re: Bradley or Sully: Who do you trade?
« Reply #52 on: November 27, 2012, 06:30:54 PM »

Offline Big Rondo

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Well, bradley isn't just GOOD at defense, hes excellent, elite, superb, one of the best in the game. Sully is good at some things but he isnt great at anything or elite. He can be replaced alot easier than bradley can. Also, defensive players like AB do not just come and go i assure you lol.

To say Avery Bradley is one of best perimeter defenders is  understatement of the century. With all due respect to Gary Payton...Avery Bradley will go down as THE greatest perimeter defender ever.



#bradleysanity
Offense sells tickets, Defense wins games, Rebounds win championships.

Re: Bradley or Sully: Who do you trade?
« Reply #53 on: November 27, 2012, 06:58:29 PM »

Offline Change

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This kid has a sweet Jumper. Future 20+ppg scorer imo.

Re: Bradley or Sully: Who do you trade?
« Reply #54 on: November 27, 2012, 07:00:19 PM »

Offline BballTim

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I can't wait until Bradley comes back and all this hyperbole about him can end. 

I don't think anyone really knows how great or mediocre he'll be... but calling him a "Top 5 defender" after what amounts to roughly 13 games is like calling Jeremy Lin a "top 5 point guard" after 11 games of Linsanity.
38 games, roughly 38 games as a starter playing heavy minutes.

It's misleading.  A lot of those starts you are referring to came in January when he was pretty dreadful.  He was getting heavy minutes and finished the month averaging 4.8 points, 1.3 turnovers and .7 steals... 40% shooting...10% from three... 64% from the line.  Yeck.

Or the 10 games he started in the playoffs where he averaged 6.7 points, 1 turnover, .8 steals 37% shooting, 27% from three and 66% from the line.

What everyone is salivating over is about 17 games towards the end of March and April (the tail end of a lockout shortened season) where he shot out of his freakin mind and played exceptionally aggressive defense.   It inflated his averages considerably.  I was impressed by it as well.  Made him look like he was a 50%/40%/80% kinda guy.  We beat Miami three times that month and everyone assumed we had their number. 

  I don't know how many games you actually watch, but you're talking about scoring and shooting percentages in a conversation about his defense. His good defensive play was pretty noticeable back in January, in fact he had his signature game vs Jameer during that stretch. His offense picked up a lot in the spring, not his defense.

Re: Bradley or Sully: Who do you trade?
« Reply #55 on: November 27, 2012, 07:02:30 PM »

Offline BballTim

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Well, bradley isn't just GOOD at defense, hes excellent, elite, superb, one of the best in the game. Sully is good at some things but he isnt great at anything or elite. He can be replaced alot easier than bradley can. Also, defensive players like AB do not just come and go i assure you lol.

To say Avery Bradley is one of best perimeter defenders is  understatement of the century. With all due respect to Gary Payton...Avery Bradley will go down as THE greatest perimeter defender ever.

  Did you actually see Payton play?

Re: Bradley or Sully: Who do you trade?
« Reply #56 on: November 27, 2012, 07:13:45 PM »

Offline bfrombleacher

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B160-NrWQvg

This kid has a sweet Jumper. Future 20+ppg scorer imo.

Fab Melo might be as good as Hollins on the offensive end right now...possibly better on D too (at least man to man).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l66HguwskuU

Edit: also, neither have any rebounding to speak of so that's a wash

Re: Bradley or Sully: Who do you trade?
« Reply #57 on: November 27, 2012, 07:25:33 PM »

Offline hpantazo

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Well, bradley isn't just GOOD at defense, hes excellent, elite, superb, one of the best in the game. Sully is good at some things but he isnt great at anything or elite. He can be replaced alot easier than bradley can. Also, defensive players like AB do not just come and go i assure you lol.

To say Avery Bradley is one of best perimeter defenders is  understatement of the century. With all due respect to Gary Payton...Avery Bradley will go down as THE greatest perimeter defender ever.

  Did you actually see Payton play?

It's amazing how Bradley's legend grows the more he sits out. People forget that he has played very few games, and during his first year and a half in the NBA most people on here wanted to straight up cut him and insisted he was not an NBA level player. He played good defense for a short stretch, had one good block on DWade while Wade was injured, and suddenly he's the greatest defender of all time!!! If that were only true, we could actually trade him for an all-star.

Let's not forget that he has about a 50% ratio of having his pocked picked when he brings the ball up the floor, often looking like a high school player, and he makes a ton of errors on offense that leave people scratching their heads.

Re: Bradley or Sully: Who do you trade?
« Reply #58 on: November 27, 2012, 07:44:02 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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Re: Bradley or Sully: Who do you trade?
« Reply #59 on: November 27, 2012, 07:46:10 PM »

Offline droopdog7

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I'd give up Bradley.

Sully has a much higher basketball IQ and does a lot more of the little things that help a team win games. Bradley is good at one thing and one thing only and that's man defense; Sully will make the extra pass, use his body to box out and rebound, make smart cuts to the basket... He has more range on his jumper than Bradley as well.

Lockdown defenders come and go but finding a basketball player as smart as Sully at such a young age is hard to do. Sully has boundless potential, very likely to be the next Paul Millsap. Bradley at best is Tony Allen with a corner 3. Give me the heady, all-around talent to the defensive specialist all day every day.

Best of luck with your career, AB, hope things work out for the best.

Well, bradley isn't just GOOD at defense, hes excellent, elite, superb, one of the best in the game. Sully is good at some things but he isnt great at anything or elite. He can be replaced alot easier than bradley can. Also, defensive players like AB do not just come and go i assure you lol.
depends on the type of player Bradley is guarding on just how good his defense is.  He is susceptible to the bigger stronger SG's just backing him down or posting him up.  He does well against the smaller quicker guys (like a Wade), but a guy like Kobe Bryant just brutalizes him because of his size.

I don't recall AB ever getting brutalized. Not saying it didn't happen but i don't recall. Can you point it out?
When we played the Hawks, Bradley had to be taken off Joe Johnson because he was just too big for him.  I agree that Bradley would not do well against certain guys (e.g., kobe, and JJ) but there aren't that many of them.