Celtics lost the 3point king but became better 3point shooting team

[crimson_stallion]

Bradley has simply not taken enough shots to have proven himself or built any type of credibility.  As a comparison, Tony Allen shot a very similar percentage and quantity his first year too.

Three out of his four years in the league, Green hasn't even been a decent 3 point shooter.  If you think 33.7% and less than 1 per game for his whole career is anything more than "unproven," I have to question that.  You know the average is typically around 36% for the all the players in the league?  And Green is certainly not known for revealing new aspects to his game each year.

Here are our stats for above the break threes:

Jason Terry: 101-280 (36%)
Paul Pierce: 84-232 (36%)
Courtney Lee: 37-113 (33%)
Keyon Dooling: 15-50 (30%)
Jeff Green: 36-144 (25%)
Avery Bradley: 2-18 (11%)
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Total: 275-837 (32.9%)

Our stats for corner threes:

Avery Bradley: 20-36 (56%)
Courney Lee: 50-103 (49%)
Jason Terry: 37-84 (44%)
Jeff Green: 28-64 (44%)
Paul Pierce: 16-41 (39%)
Keyon Dooling: 12-31 (39%)
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Total: 163-359 (45.4%)

Overall stats

Avery Bradley: 22-54 (40.7%)
Courney Lee: 87-216 (40.3%)
Jason Terry: 137-364 (37.6%)
Paul Pierce: 100-273 (36.6%)
Keyon Dooling: 27-81 (33.3%)
Jeff Green: 64-208  (30.8%)
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Overall:  437-1196 (36.6%)

That's pretty solid overall three point shooting numbers overall, and while we may not be fantastic from above the break, we are potentially deadly from the corner.

For the record, only 8 NBA teams shot over 36% from three last season:

1. San Antonio - 39.3%
2. Golden State - 38.8%
3. Chicago - 37.5%
4. Orlando - 37.5%
5. Atlanta - 37.0%
6. Indiana - 36.8%
7. Boston - 36.2%
8. Philly - 36.2%

This year I would say we have one great three point shooter (Terry), two good ones (Lee and Pierce), two solid ones (Bradley, Green, Dooling) and two wildcards (Sullinger, Joseph). 

More importantly we have the ability to have as many as five three point shooters (Terry, Lee, Pierce, Green, Sullinger) on the court at any one time if we play small-ball.

The lineup I think will be the most deadly offensively however would be Terry, Lee, Pierce, Green and Garnett.  If we have Terry + Pierce above the break and Lee + Green in the corners with KG inside, it extremely difficult for any team to double KG in the post.  With Garnett being such a great passer out of double teams and so many shooters on the perimeter we would be daring them to try it.

We always had the ability to put up to 3 shooters out there, but the difference makers this year are Green and Sullinger - we haven't had a legic big man that can shoot the three since Rasheed left us two seasons back.

[mgent]

For the record, only 8 NBA teams shot over 36% from three last season:

Well it's 12 when you round.  And 14 the year before.  I was talking about the league average anyway, not the team average.  We were talking about players.

[crimson_stallion]

I was talking about the league average anyway, not the team average.  We were talking about players.
[/quote]

Yeah, I know.

That part of my response was more a reference to the original topic (i.e. the Celtics as a 3 Point Shooting team) rather than the individuals.

[mgent]

Yeah, I know.

That part of my response was more a reference to the original topic (i.e. the Celtics as a 3 Point Shooting team) rather than the individuals.

Okay, well even if you only consider those 6 guys (though Dooling won't play) and ignore the 3s from Rondo and everybody else it wouldn't even touch the .381 put up by the '08 squad (which didn't ignore Rondo, Tony, end of clock shots, etc).

[mmmmm]

The lineup I think will be the most deadly offensively however would be Terry, Lee, Pierce, Green and Garnett.  If we have Terry + Pierce above the break and Lee + Green in the corners with KG inside, it extremely difficult for any team to double KG in the post.  With Garnett being such a great passer out of double teams and so many shooters on the perimeter we would be daring them to try it.

I like pretty much everything you had to say in this post, except I'm not overly thrilled with where this last suggestion leads.  That's the Stan Van Gundy offense. 

I'm going to disagree a bit and suggest instead a lineup that looks like so as probably our best offense:

RR/JET + AB/Lee + Pierce/Green + KG + Wilcox

The key being to have KG & Wilcox up front.  The reason I prefer this model is that KG & Wilcox have very complementary front-court scoring skills.   You cannot afford to double either of them with two bigs or the other guy is wide open for an easy feed from Rondo/JET for a high percentage play at the rim.  If you try to bring a small in to double one of them, then Rondo either drives himself to the rim or passes to the uncovered guy on the perimeter for a wide open 3.  Plus, KG is an awesome 'stretch big' and so if you try to play it square, with no doubles, then KG pulls his man out to the perimeter  (leaving room inside for Wilcox to post-up or a slasher/cutter) or you pick & roll/pop him.

This sort of offense will take more 2s than 3s, but more of them will be of the very high percentage variety at the rim (i.e. 60+% shots).   Plus it will generate more fouls.   The worst shot you might have to take with this would be KG's 48% long 2.  Over time, that will generate more points per possession.

There is also a nice synergy you get with a balanced inside-outside game.  As defenses try to compensate by pulling smalls in to help double in the paint, your outside shooters can get more uncontested 3s.

The basic point is that we need to generate more shots at the rim.  Shots at the rim are way, way more efficient than perimeter jump shots.  That was the one big drop off that hurt our scoring efficiency last year is that we became too perimeter based after we lost Wilcox.  We have three guys this year (Wilcox, Sully & Green) who all have above average post-up skills for their positions and we need to make use of them.

[crimson_stallion]

Absolutely, not by any means sggesting we use this as a primary offensive set - just that it's something we can go to if we're playing against teams with poor perimeter defense, or against teams that lack size inside.

Perfect example is what we were doing with KG against Atlanta, Philly and Miami in the playoffs last season - Rondo would simply lob high to KG who would just reach above the defender, grab the ball and put in an easy 5-7 foot shot. 

Later on the only way opposing teams could stop this was by double KG, and with Pierce, Allen and Pietrus all struggling with injuries we didn't really have anyone who could punish them consistently from outside.

If we run that same offense this year against smaller teams, then this is where the versatility of Jeff Green becomes a big factor. With both Green and Pierce on the floor either one of those guys has the ability to either step out for a three, catch and shoot a midrange jumper or cut inside for an easy basket...but it's that inside/outside threat that Green offers (over Bass / Wilcox) that will make it difficult for teams to risk the double team, because both of those guys are capable of scoring from anywhere on the court.

When Rondo is on the court defenders will sag off him to double KG, but they can't afford to do that when you have Terry at the point because he will kill you if you give him the slightest room to shoot (much like Ray did).   If they try to run back at him he's also capable of putting the ball on the floor and driving it to the basket. 

In that lineup aside from Lee every player ont he court is a multi-dimentional scoring threat, adn that makes us very hard to defend.  Even in the case of Lee, you need to keep an eye out as he likes to cut bassline (ala Avery Bradley) as well if the opporunity is there.

If you want to see an example of how well this can work just look at the Heat in the playoffs last year when Bosh came back in those last couple of games.  Aside from grabbing a few big rebounds he did very little inside...he killed is from the perimeter by hitting 2 or 3 massive treys, and no one really ran out to challenge it because nobody expects a big to take and hit those shots.  Even if you do run someone out, the height of someone like Green/Bosh makes it hard to get up high enough to block or affect the shot.

The Orlando model was very effective in Orlando's stronger years, but they ran the system with guys like Rashard Lewis, JJ Redick and Jameer Nelson who really don't have any offense outside of spot up jumpers.  Plus Howard is really not effective unless he gets within 5 feet of the basket, and he's not a very good passer either. 

KG is an elite passing big man, a great decision maker and a versatile scorer from anywhere inside of 18 feet.  I think it would be a nightmare of a lineup to defend because the ball could move so quickly and everyone on the court is a threat to score.

My preferred lineup overall though would be Rondo, Bradley, Pierce, Wilcox and KG because it's just sucha  ballanced set - you have a post up game, you have slashers, you have shooters, you have speed on the break and you have strong perimeter defenders and rebounders to help generate the fast break.

This is the thing I love so much about current Celtics roster - we are just so versatile.  We have so many different looks we can throw at opponents depending on who we're playing and what we need. 

[mmmmm]

This is the thing I love so much about current Celtics roster - we are just so versatile.  We have so many different looks we can throw at opponents depending on who we're playing and what we need.

Exactly.  Agree 100%.

All we need now is to stay healthy.