Thunder extend Ibaka for 4 yr/ $40 million (now reported at $48 million)

[The Fawb]

so OKC is still under the basic salary cap ?

so just to be clear, we are not talking about the $74 mill "luxury tax" cap that the Celts bumped up against ?

if that is the case, then OKC needs to get their mind right. as Clay Davis reminded Stringer in The Wire, "if you are still in possession of that mindset (of trusting me with your "investment" money), then you are definitely not ready for the big leagues (business-wise)."

nobody is gonna stay under the base salary cap and win a title - you're gonna have to be willing to pay some amount of luxury tax (to enjoy the luxury of a championship). i guess now we'll see what kind of a "genius" that Sam Presti really is - he got real lucky in the lottery, but now he has to deal with the reality of being a grown-up contender with several very good players who don't want to be "dissed" by ownership.

what is James Harden expecting in terms of an extension ?

I think they're right at the luxury tax level for this year, but they are not under the cap.  Ibaka's pay day doesn't increase until next year, however, which is why there is some concern about keeping Harden.  They are paying about $52 million combined to Durant, Westbrook, Perk, and Ibaka next year.  Harden is probably angling for a max extension or will hit free agency, which means he'll probably be at $13-14 mil next year.  So that's the cap and then some for those 5 players.  Manageable, but unless there's a big jump in the cap (which is not impossible) they'll be looking at vet mins and rookies to fill out their roster.

From my calculations, using this years cap ($58 mil) and tax payer apron ($74 mil) they will be fine this year. Next year, to extend harden they will have $61.3 mil in guaranteed salary obligations (including Ibaka's new deal, assuming all non-guaranteed contracts are voided essentially clearing their bench of younger talent). This leaves them $12.6 mil to work with next season (not factoring in cap increase of maybe a couple mil). Either they are going to have to trade someone like Sefolosha ($3.9mil) and/or Collison ($2.58mil) in a salary dump, or they are going to have to sign Harden on the very cheap. I think though if they sign harden for about $10-12 mil and sign vet min players or make the trades i said earlier, they may be over the lux. tax and won't be able to use the full MLE, but they won't be over by enough to make it painful for them, especially for a winning team. We shall see.

[Vermont Green]

Either they are going to have to trade someone like Sefolosha ($3.9mil) and/or Collison ($2.58mil) in a salary dump, or they are going to have to sign Harden on the very cheap. I think though if they sign harden for about $10-12 mil and sign vet min players or make the trades i said earlier, they may be over the lux. tax and won't be able to use the full MLE, but they won't be over by enough to make it painful for them, especially for a winning team. We shall see.

Or amnesty Perk to free up $8.5M more for the 2012-13 season.  In my opinion, they are better off keeping Collison who is a good deal at $2.6M and give the extra $6M to Harden.

[pearljammer10]

Harden for green and make the world right

[jdz101]

what is James Harden expecting in terms of an extension ?

James Harden should get a max contract. There will be plenty of teams willing to pay him that next summer.

He doesn't deserve a max contract. Haven't seen a player choke that hard in a finals series for a long long while.

[Rondo2287]

what is James Harden expecting in terms of an extension ?

James Harden should get a max contract. There will be plenty of teams willing to pay him that next summer.

He doesn't deserve a max contract. Haven't seen a player choke that hard in a finals series for a long long while.

Harden deserves a max deal.  The thunder would be foolish to throw out a sizeable body of work over just one series. 

I do not think they will be that foolish

[nickagneta]

what is James Harden expecting in terms of an extension ?

James Harden should get a max contract. There will be plenty of teams willing to pay him that next summer.

He doesn't deserve a max contract. Haven't seen a player choke that hard in a finals series for a long long while.

You mean since the year before when LeBron choked just as bad? Superstar players have bad series. Thing is I am still not 100% convinced Harden is superstar. He might be All-Star good but not superstar good.

[BballTim]

what is James Harden expecting in terms of an extension ?

James Harden should get a max contract. There will be plenty of teams willing to pay him that next summer.

He doesn't deserve a max contract. Haven't seen a player choke that hard in a finals series for a long long while.

You mean since the year before when LeBron choked just as bad? Superstar players have bad series. Thing is I am still not 100% convinced Harden is superstar. He might be All-Star good but not superstar good.

  LeBron puts up better numbers when he's choking than Harden does when he isn't.

  I don't know that Harden is a max contract player, and I doubt we'll ever see whether he's capable of being that type of player when he's on a team with Westbrook and Durant.

[fairweatherfan]

I'll go ahead and say it - I think Harden has become a bit overrated. 

He's a very nice young player, but I think we're talking fringe All-Star, probably on the good side of the fringe, but not a superstar or anything like that.  I think a max contract is an overpay for what he's shown so far.

[Who]

Thing is I am still not 100% convinced Harden is superstar. He might be All-Star good but not superstar good.

Yeah, that is where I would rate Harden. As such, I think he's worth the max.

All-Star caliber player and quality building block but not a franchise player / superstar.

[Fafnir]

Thing is I am still not 100% convinced Harden is superstar. He might be All-Star good but not superstar good.

Yeah, that is where I would rate Harden. As such, I think he's worth the max.

All-Star caliber player and quality building block but not a franchise player / superstar.

Well they've got Durant for that already, and Westbrook (maybe) so no reason not to pay Harden unless you can't hack the tax.

[jdz101]

what is James Harden expecting in terms of an extension ?

James Harden should get a max contract. There will be plenty of teams willing to pay him that next summer.

He doesn't deserve a max contract. Haven't seen a player choke that hard in a finals series for a long long while.

You mean since the year before when LeBron choked just as bad? Superstar players have bad series. Thing is I am still not 100% convinced Harden is superstar. He might be All-Star good but not superstar good.

Nope. Harden was far worse than Lebron. Far far worse.

[Jon]

Thing is I am still not 100% convinced Harden is superstar. He might be All-Star good but not superstar good.

Yeah, that is where I would rate Harden. As such, I think he's worth the max.

All-Star caliber player and quality building block but not a franchise player / superstar.

Well they've got Durant for that already, and Westbrook (maybe) so no reason not to pay Harden unless you can't hack the tax.

I agree.  You also have to look at it from a VORPish (Value Over Replacement Player, to steal from baseball) perspective.   

If they can truly get great value for him in a trade, maybe things change.  But right now they'll probably get something less than him (given that teams know their situation) or they potentially lose him in for nothing in free agency, and be left trying to replace him with an MLE player. 

So yes, I agree that he's not worth max money in the grand scheme of things, but given what OKC already has, I think it's worth it. 

[Fafnir]

Thing is I am still not 100% convinced Harden is superstar. He might be All-Star good but not superstar good.

Yeah, that is where I would rate Harden. As such, I think he's worth the max.

All-Star caliber player and quality building block but not a franchise player / superstar.

Well they've got Durant for that already, and Westbrook (maybe) so no reason not to pay Harden unless you can't hack the tax.

I agree.  You also have to look at it from a VORPish (Value Over Replacement Player, to steal from baseball) perspective.   

If they can truly get great value for him in a trade, maybe things change.  But right now they'll probably get something less than him (given that teams know their situation) or they potentially lose him in for nothing in free agency, and be left trying to replace him with an MLE player. 

So yes, I agree that he's not worth max money in the grand scheme of things, but given what OKC already has, I think it's worth it.

Definitely they're going to have no cap room no matter what with Durant/Ibaka/Westbrook on the books and even if they stay under the tax to leave more ways to add to their team those lower level players aren't going to be as good as Harden.