« previous next »
Pages: [1] 2   Go Down

Author Topic: Kobe-Shaq v. Kobe-Howard  (Read 7680 times)

0 Members and 0 Guests are viewing this topic.

Kobe-Shaq v. Kobe-Howard
« on: August 11, 2012, 07:53:40 PM »

Online Neurotic Guy

  • Bob Cousy
  • **************************
  • Posts: 26053
  • Tommy Points: 2751
As denial kicks in to avoid deep depression over the Lakers latest acquisition of a franchise center (seems about every 15 years it happens), I have been finding myself rationalizing in various ways how this might not be all that bad.  I can't actually convince myself that LA will not win a 17th championships over the next 2 years, but it has crossed my mind that the 1-2 combo that brought the Lakers 12, 13 and 14, may have been better than this one is going to be. 

The interesting thing about comparing Kobe-Shaq to Kobe-Howard, is that while Shaq and Dwight both will have come to the Lakers in the midst of their prime, Kobe was on the upside (just 22 in 2001) with Shaq and is on the downside with Dwight.  Kobe is still a top 5-10 player, but you know what I mean. 

Shaq was unstopable inside offensively and gigantic -- took up so much space and commanded double-triple teams. Dwight is strong, good enough offensively and a behemoth defensively and on the glass. Neither can shoot a free throw (both are 58% career FT shooters).  Kobe was more athletic at 22, but likely makes up for that with savvy/experience at 34. 

I'd like to hear your opinions about the Lakers new 1-2 combo vs. the 2001-ish version. 

Also, just how superior is Nash-Gasol to 26yo Fisher and 37 yo Horace Grant? The bench I give to the 2001 team, but I do believe it is Nash-Gasol that makes the 2012-13 team the better team than the one that won 3 in a row. Or I should say it will depend on how Nash-Gasol perform as a 39 yo PG and a 32 yo PF who has looked a little worn and who hasn't really had a summer to rest (glad to see Spain in the Olympic Finals).     

Curious about your thoughts. 

« Last Edit: August 11, 2012, 11:48:27 PM by Neurotic Guy »
Logged
Re: Kobe-Shaq v. Kobe-Howard
« Reply #1 on: August 11, 2012, 09:53:07 PM »

Offline billysan

  • Al Horford
  • ***
  • Posts: 3875
  • Tommy Points: 178
The addition of Dwight Howard makes the Lakers much more dangerous to the rest of the league, especially the West. They have to be considered a favorite make it to the finals alongside the Thunder and Spurs. This of course as long as they stay relatively healthy.

A few things jump out at me:

The biggest differences he will bring over Bynum is superior defense, rebounding and being healthy enough to play big minutes for 80+ games a year IMO. 

Kobe knows how to effectively play off a quality big and Gasol's inside/out game will nicely compliment Howards inside game. These are two things Dwight has never had in Orlando. Dwight will also be getting a big upgrade at PG to play with in Steve Nash (even at 39).

All of this may take some getting used to because he is used to being the focal point of the team. This is still Kobe's team. Dwight will be reminded of that to be sure. I think he wll be fine with it.

The significant players on the current bench (IMO) will be Jordan Hill, Antwan Jamison and Steve Blake. There is a glaring hole at wing depth after Kobe and Metta World Peace. To be really serious about a title run, the Lakers need to add an athletic and competent wing. Carlos Delfino, Peaches, Michael Redd, Josh Howard, Etc are names to consider if they can land one for the minimum.

The wear and tear on Gasol will be a bigger factor than Nash's age, but only for this season. This is where Hill and Jamison will be most important in compensating for Pau's necessary lower minutes.

The comparison to Shaq-Kobe is lost because of a lack of complimentary/role players beyond those mentioned at this point. Nash-Gasol is probably a slight advantage over Fisher-Grant but not enough at this point to make up for Kobe's age IMO.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2012, 09:59:50 PM by billysan »
Logged
"First fix their hearts" -Eizo Shimabuku
Re: Kobe-Shaq v. Kobe-Howard
« Reply #2 on: August 11, 2012, 10:10:36 PM »

Offline ImShakHeIsShaq

  • NCE
  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7739
  • Tommy Points: 804
Quote from: Neurotic Guy on August 11, 2012, 07:53:40 PM
As denial kicks in to avoid deep depression over the Lakers latest acquisition of a franchise center (seems about every 15 years it happens), I have been finding myself rationalizing in various ways how this might not be all that bad.  I can't actually convince myself that LA will not win a 17th championships over the next 2 years, but it has crossed my mind that the 1-2 combo that brought the Lakers 14, 15 and 16, may have been better than this one is going to be. 

The interesting thing about comparing Kobe-Shaq to Kobe-Howard, is that while Shaq and Dwight both will have come to the Lakers in the midst of their prime, Kobe was on the upside (just 22 in 2001) with Shaq and is on the downside with Dwight.  Kobe is still a top 5-10 player, but you know what I mean. 

Shaq was unstopable inside offensively and gigantic -- took up so much space and commanded double-triple teams. Dwight is strong, good enough offensively and a behemoth defensively and on the glass. Neither can shoot a free throw (both are 58% career FT shooters).  Kobe was more athletic at 22, but likely makes up for that with savvy/experience at 34. 

I'd like to hear your opinions about the Lakers new 1-2 combo vs. the 2001-ish version. 

Also, just how superior is Nash-Gasol to 26yo Fisher and 37 yo Horace Grant? The bench I give to the 2001 team, but I do believe it is Nash-Gasol that makes the 2012-13 team the better team than the one that won 3 in a row. Or I should say it will depend on how Nash-Gasol perform as a 39 yo PG and a 32 yo PF who has looked a little worn and who hasn't really had a summer to rest (glad to see Spain in the Olympic Finals).     

Curious about your thoughts.

Eh, they won 2 after Shaq so... 12,13,14

Shaq was better than DH but yeah... they will probably be good if they stay healthy but I don't see them being MUCH better than with Bynum. You have to account for age and previous injury history... never know what will happen. We will see, but I'm not crowning them until they win something! Paper doesn't scare me!
Logged
It takes me 3hrs to get to Miami and 1hr to get to Orlando... but I *SPIT* on their NBA teams! "Bless God and bless the (Celts)"-Lady GaGa (she said gays but she really meant Celts)
Re: Kobe-Shaq v. Kobe-Howard
« Reply #3 on: August 11, 2012, 11:46:53 PM »

Online Neurotic Guy

  • Bob Cousy
  • **************************
  • Posts: 26053
  • Tommy Points: 2751
Quote from: ImShakHeIsShaq on August 11, 2012, 10:10:36 PM
Quote from: Neurotic Guy on August 11, 2012, 07:53:40 PM
As denial kicks in to avoid deep depression over the Lakers latest acquisition of a franchise center (seems about every 15 years it happens), I have been finding myself rationalizing in various ways how this might not be all that bad.  I can't actually convince myself that LA will not win a 17th championships over the next 2 years, but it has crossed my mind that the 1-2 combo that brought the Lakers 14, 15 and 16, may have been better than this one is going to be. 

The interesting thing about comparing Kobe-Shaq to Kobe-Howard, is that while Shaq and Dwight both will have come to the Lakers in the midst of their prime, Kobe was on the upside (just 22 in 2001) with Shaq and is on the downside with Dwight.  Kobe is still a top 5-10 player, but you know what I mean. 

Shaq was unstopable inside offensively and gigantic -- took up so much space and commanded double-triple teams. Dwight is strong, good enough offensively and a behemoth defensively and on the glass. Neither can shoot a free throw (both are 58% career FT shooters).  Kobe was more athletic at 22, but likely makes up for that with savvy/experience at 34. 

I'd like to hear your opinions about the Lakers new 1-2 combo vs. the 2001-ish version. 

Also, just how superior is Nash-Gasol to 26yo Fisher and 37 yo Horace Grant? The bench I give to the 2001 team, but I do believe it is Nash-Gasol that makes the 2012-13 team the better team than the one that won 3 in a row. Or I should say it will depend on how Nash-Gasol perform as a 39 yo PG and a 32 yo PF who has looked a little worn and who hasn't really had a summer to rest (glad to see Spain in the Olympic Finals).     

Curious about your thoughts.

Eh, they won 2 after Shaq so... 12,13,14

Shaq was better than DH but yeah... they will probably be good if they stay healthy but I don't see them being MUCH better than with Bynum. You have to account for age and previous injury history... never know what will happen. We will see, but I'm not crowning them until they win something! Paper doesn't scare me!

Oops. Yeah, I meant 12,13 and 14. Thanks for the correction.
Logged
Re: Kobe-Shaq v. Kobe-Howard
« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2012, 02:06:09 PM »

Offline anthony83

  • Derrick White
  • Posts: 448
  • Tommy Points: 36
Kobe has been very lucky during carrerae with Shaq, Gasol, and now Howard, without these players Kobe had not won as many rings.
Logged

Twitter: @Theanswer83
Re: Kobe-Shaq v. Kobe-Howard
« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2012, 02:13:24 PM »

Offline OsirusCeltics

  • Bailey Howell
  • **
  • Posts: 2013
  • Tommy Points: 198
Quote from: anthony83 on August 12, 2012, 02:06:09 PM
Kobe has been very lucky during carrerae with Shaq, Gasol, and now Howard, without these players Kobe had not won as many rings.

He would not have won ANY
Logged
Re: Kobe-Shaq v. Kobe-Howard
« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2012, 09:03:01 PM »

Offline TripleOT

  • Chat Moderator
  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1993
  • Tommy Points: 213
Howard is going to be an absolute beast on the offensive boards for LA.  He's playing for the first time with another talented true big in Gasol.  The few occasions when the Magic played Howard and Gortat together, they beasted.

Defensively, the Lakers are going to be a ton better.  Howard might be that franchise's best basket protector.   
Logged
Re: Kobe-Shaq v. Kobe-Howard
« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2012, 09:10:38 PM »

Offline bfrombleacher

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3343
  • Tommy Points: 367
Shaq > Dwight
Kobe > Kobe
Logged
Re: Kobe-Shaq v. Kobe-Howard
« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2012, 09:13:05 PM »

Offline Brendan

  • Jim Loscutoff
  • **
  • Posts: 2990
  • Tommy Points: 72
Logged
Re: Kobe-Shaq v. Kobe-Howard
« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2012, 10:07:32 PM »

Offline Eja117

  • NCE
  • Bill Sharman
  • *******************
  • Posts: 19274
  • Tommy Points: 1254
I have obtained special footage of what would have happened if prime Shaq had gone up against Supergirl.  And playing the role of D Howard we have Luca Brasi

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=No6zx8Kj3wo
Logged
Re: Kobe-Shaq v. Kobe-Howard
« Reply #10 on: August 13, 2012, 11:20:59 PM »

Offline crimson_stallion

  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5964
  • Tommy Points: 875
Comparing Dwight Howard against Shaq in his prime...? 

Is this even a serious question, or is it asked in jest, as Howard is not even a shadow of what Shaq was.

Shaq had an incredibly polished game - great hands, great passer, tons of moves in the low post...he was dominant and unstoppable and he always had the right winning attitude and he took basketball seriously.

Not only was Shaq far better then Dwight, but so was Hakeem, Ewing, Robinson...those guys were all supremely skilled on both ends of the floor, and Dwight would have had his butt handed to him on a platter if he played against any of those guys.
Logged
Re: Kobe-Shaq v. Kobe-Howard
« Reply #11 on: August 14, 2012, 12:25:12 AM »

Offline davemonsterband

  • Bill Walton
  • *
  • Posts: 1135
  • Tommy Points: 160
I think that Lakers 2000 team is the best basketball team I have ever seen. I started watching ball in 1989. It was because of Shaq. His impact on the game is not as talked about as it should be. If I was to start a team of all time he'd be my number 1 pick. Fully unstoppable. I'm not saying he's 'best' because that's a stupid word to use when talking about HOF's, but he's sure as heck the most dominant I have ever seen.

I know you're talking about the teams vs. just Shaq and Howard, but I think the Shaq factor negates all other comparisons. Steve's Nash's terrible defense is a massive point for me as well.

4-0. They would pummel them. Shaq's playoff numbers would dwarf DH into the ground and Shaq would dunk right in his eye. The Admiral, Hakeem and Patrick couldn't stop him, DH's not in the class of any of them, not even close.
Logged
"The Best Revenge Is Massive Success"
~Ole Blue Eyes~
Re: Kobe-Shaq v. Kobe-Howard
« Reply #12 on: August 14, 2012, 04:04:42 AM »

fitzhickey

  • Guest
Quote from: crimson_stallion on August 13, 2012, 11:20:59 PM
Comparing Dwight Howard against Shaq in his prime...? 

Is this even a serious question, or is it asked in jest, as Howard is not even a shadow of what Shaq was.

Shaq had an incredibly polished game - great hands, great passer, tons of moves in the low post...he was dominant and unstoppable and he always had the right winning attitude and he took basketball seriously.

Not only was Shaq far better then Dwight, but so was Hakeem, Ewing, Robinson...those guys were all supremely skilled on both ends of the floor, and Dwight would have had his butt handed to him on a platter if he played against any of those guys.
Agree, comparing shaq to dwight is stupid. Shaq was super talented, dwights just an idiot
« Last Edit: August 14, 2012, 04:09:49 AM by fitzhickey »
Logged
Re: Kobe-Shaq v. Kobe-Howard
« Reply #13 on: August 14, 2012, 02:41:30 PM »

Offline TripleOT

  • Chat Moderator
  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1993
  • Tommy Points: 213
In his prime Shaq was the most unstoppable inside force the league had seen since Wilt. Howard is a middling offensive post player who is most deadly when hitting the offensive glass.

That said, this Laker team, if healthy, is going to be a juggernaut. They have the best shooting PG of all time, who happens to be able to run a team like a maestro.  they have one of the best two SGs of all time. They have one of the best defensive SFs of all time. They have a top 5 PF of the past decade.  And they have the best defensive center the league has seen since Mutumbo in his prime, only with more athleticism. 

Oh yeah,  they have a capable bench of Jamison, Blake, Hill, Meeks, and whatever ring chasing big shakes loose this season.     
Logged
Re: Kobe-Shaq v. Kobe-Howard
« Reply #14 on: August 14, 2012, 04:08:53 PM »

Offline Greenbean

  • Al Horford
  • ***
  • Posts: 3739
  • Tommy Points: 418
I cant quantify what I am about to say in terms of comparing the two teams as championship contenders.

Dwight Howard will be more than willing to take a backseat to Kobe...something Shaq never wanted to do.

For this team right now, that means they can have sustainable chemistry.

It is the reason why Dwight will never be Shaq and also the reason why he will get along with Kobe better than Shaq ever did.

Let's see how it plays out on the court.
Logged
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up
« previous next »