Falk: "Green could've gotten more from other clubs"

[ballin]

This is David Falk:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DrRE1LDY_U

PS - Green doubters need not answer as your valuation of his abilities will be extremely biased. Aka go away

What's the point of this?

Just a troll disclaimer. People here seem to think that Green won't do anything but keep our bench warm, I can see them pinning his value to be like 2m per year for 4 years or something absurd

I think there is a pretty good case to be made that Danny paid Green more than his past says he's worth, but I doubt Danny paid more than market value.

Have you seen the comments at other websites/blogs/etc.? EVERYBODY thinks we overpaid for Green. Myself included.

The fact is, Green has only EVER been paid the amount he has based on 2 things: 1) his potential, and 2) the fact that he just looks like he's good (even though he really isn't).

The stats say he's average and he's always been average. He's likely to stay average. But for some reason GM's don't see that.

[Snakehead]

Batum is going to be making 4-5 million more with the same numbers.  He is two years younger.

So yes I believe this.

Initially I didn't think your claim was true, so I looked at them side-by-side comparison in their last full seasons:

http://bkref.com/tiny/qrioG

They are fairly similar indeed.

Batum fares much better in advanced metrics due to one thing: his superior 3 pt shooting (39% vs. 30% on slightly higher volume). This gives him a much better TS%.

Other than that, there's some evidence that Batum is a better defender. He certainly looks more athletic and active on that end, as well.

But looking at these numbers, there is not a clear difference. If Green can improve his 3pt numbers (and he did shoot 39% on high volume in his second year, so it's possible), then he looks virtually identical to Batum.

Yeah it's the thing people are overlooking here.  Not that Batum isn't a bit better and doesn't have some more upside but they are very similar players and he is making that much more money.  About 50% of Green's salary.

If you look at that I don't get why people keep going on about this.  And I've heard no one criticize the Batum contract.

[Jon]

We'll never know if Falk was lying or not.  However, we also have to look at it this way: Green somewhat had us in a bad position too. 

Maybe other teams were only offering him 6-7 million per year.  However, other teams could probably guarantee him starting positions, unlike here.  And if he simply walked away to another team, the C's would've been left with nothing. 

So Danny may well have looked at it as as needing to overpay a bit and add a year to ask Green to stay in a situation that's probably not ideal for him. 

[indeedproceed]

This is David Falk:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DrRE1LDY_U

PS - Green doubters need not answer as your valuation of his abilities will be extremely biased. Aka go away

What's the point of this?

Just a troll disclaimer. People here seem to think that Green won't do anything but keep our bench warm, I can see them pinning his value to be like 2m per year for 4 years or something absurd

I think there is a pretty good case to be made that Danny paid Green more than his past says he's worth, but I doubt Danny paid more than market value.

Have you seen the comments at other websites/blogs/etc.? EVERYBODY thinks we overpaid for Green. Myself included.

The fact is, Green has only EVER been paid the amount he has based on 2 things: 1) his potential, and 2) the fact that he just looks like he's good (even though he really isn't).

The stats say he's average and he's always been average. He's likely to stay average. But for some reason GM's don't see that.

I do think we 'overpaid' for Green in the sense that his contract likely won't match his on-court production, especially during the next season, but I don't think if we were set on signing Green regardless that we paid more than market price, maybe even a little less.

[LarBrd33]

Green made $9M on the 1-year he signed with us before the heart surgery.  So let's please put to rest the idea that somehow Danny overpaid him now, when he paid him just as much (on a per year basis) as his last contract.  In other words: he is not getting a raise, and he didn't deserve one.

Now...you can argue that there should have been a discount because of the heart surgery.  I think Danny probably did argue that, as any sane GM would.  Having said that, everything I have read about Green's condition is that he is "as good as new."  Thus, we are getting the same Jeff Green that was signed originally to a 1-year, $9M deal.  That is the crux of Falk's argument.

Falk is clearly saying that his client was due no medical discount from his previous contract, and indeed could have gotten a significant raise from that level based on what other teams are doling out this season (read: Fields, Landry.)  Falk is also probably trying to protect his client a bit since there was some criticism about the size of Green's deal.

I don't get the fuss over it either way.  If Green had signed for $8M per year, would we be doing backflips?  How about $7M? Was it the years?  The guy is just 26 years old.  A 4-year deal for someone in that age bracket should be a no-brainer.  How do we as fans know what this guy is worth?  Further, why do we care if it doesn't impact our ability to sign other players (which, at least this year, it did not)? 

Yeah... I don't think people get what they are saying when they keep harping on "He's coming off major heart surgery".  It's not like he's coming off major back, ankle, knee or shoulder surgery.  It's an internal thing.  Either he's got the green light to play or he doesn't.  It's not like his heart will start acting up and he'll have a rough game.  This isn't a torn ACL or microfracture surgery where he "might never be he same".  It's not like he's at risk of "tweaking" his surgery repaired heart.  The surgery was a preventative fix and presumably once he's cleared he's cleared.  There should be zero effect on his game.  His athleticism isn't going to be hurt.  Physically, he should be the same as he was before he left assuming his conditioning is where it needs to be.  He's not the first NBA player to have this surgery. 

Had they not detected and treated the issue it COULD have lead to stroke/heart attack/sudden death.  This is incredibly morbid, but let's pretend for a second that the surgery was NOT successful.  The "worst case scenario" to me seems to be either medical-related or death-related forced retirement.  And as far as I know, you don't continue to pay for medically retired/deceased players.  Again... extremely morbid and we obviously all sincerely hope the doctors know what they are doing.  But long-term there doesn't seem to be any risk of giving Green multiple years.  He's either going to play or he isn't.  It's not like he's going to have a stroke and continue playing basketball at a lesser level than he was originally capable of.  Think about it. 

[indeedproceed]

Green made $9M on the 1-year he signed with us before the heart surgery.  So let's please put to rest the idea that somehow Danny overpaid him now, when he paid him just as much (on a per year basis) as his last contract.  In other words: he is not getting a raise, and he didn't deserve one.

Now...you can argue that there should have been a discount because of the heart surgery.  I think Danny probably did argue that, as any sane GM would.  Having said that, everything I have read about Green's condition is that he is "as good as new."  Thus, we are getting the same Jeff Green that was signed originally to a 1-year, $9M deal.  That is the crux of Falk's argument.

Falk is clearly saying that his client was due no medical discount from his previous contract, and indeed could have gotten a significant raise from that level based on what other teams are doling out this season (read: Fields, Landry.)  Falk is also probably trying to protect his client a bit since there was some criticism about the size of Green's deal.

I don't get the fuss over it either way.  If Green had signed for $8M per year, would we be doing backflips?  How about $7M? Was it the years?  The guy is just 26 years old.  A 4-year deal for someone in that age bracket should be a no-brainer.  How do we as fans know what this guy is worth?  Further, why do we care if it doesn't impact our ability to sign other players (which, at least this year, it did not)? 

Yeah... I don't think people get what they are saying when they keep harping on "He's coming off major heart surgery".  It's not like he's coming off major back, ankle, knee or shoulder surgery.  It's an internal thing.  Either he's got the green light to play or he doesn't.  It's not like his heart will start acting up and he'll have a rough game.  This isn't a torn ACL or microfracture surgery where he "might never be he same".  It's not like he's at risk of "tweaking" his surgery repaired heart.  His athleticism isn't going to be hurt.  Physically, he should be the same as he was before he left assuming his conditioning is where it needs to be. 

I'm mostly on board with this but there are two very salient points that ought to be made:

1) Anyone taking a full year off from basketball not named Michael Jordan generally should be signed with caution.

2) Anyone coming off of major heart surgery generally should be signed with caution.

Its one of those things where logically, you'd say "There really isn't anything that should hold him back as long as his conditioning stayed strong", but at the same time if something did hold him back and blew up in your face, you'd say "The whole major heart surgery and taking a year off from basketball should've been a warning sign."

Kinda like Andrew Bogut's 2 unrelated freak injuries. You'd say, "as long as he got fully healed from the elbow injury, there shouldn't be any long-term concerns", but at the same time Andrew Bogut suffering a season-ending injury, unrelated as it may be, made total sense in hindsight.

[LEHGOCELTICS]

[cman88]

Ronny Turiaf had the same exact surgery and he seems to be perfectly fine..

assuming Green gets his b-ball conditioning back(and hes only 26 so it shouldnt be as hard as an older player) then he should be the same player he was before.

before the lockout last year, I remeember alot of hype about Green, how good he looked, how he improved his game and was going to be more agressive...unfortunately his condition didnt allow us to see that...i have a feeling that doc is going to bring out the best in Green