Still possible to S&T with Dallas for Jason Terry?

[Lucky17]

Is it still possible to work out a sign-and-trade with Dallas for Jason Terry? Has his signing via the MLE been made official yet?

Wondering if the Celtics can somehow recoup the MLE to offer it to Lee instead, or use a chunk of it to keep Stiemsma if Minnesota makes him an offer north of the BAE.

[TA9]

Im sure it could be possible, but the answer is; What would Dallas want from us? We could offer a 1st, Johnson and Moore but would they want that?

[Lucky17]

I was thinking a resigned Keyon Dooling, Sean Williams, and a draft pick of some kind.

Only the first year of Dooling's new contract would be guaranteed, so Mavs would keep their following year's cap space intact.

[droopdog7]

I was thinking a resigned Keyon Dooling, Sean Williams, and a draft pick of some kind.

Only the first year of Dooling's new contract would be guaranteed, so Mavs would keep their following year's cap space intact.

Ugh, that's a pretty crappy offer.  And I see you noted a draft pick of "some kind".  Well, it would definitely have to be a first for them to even consider it and even then, it might not be enough.

[erisred]

Im sure it could be possible, but the answer is; What would Dallas want from us? We could offer a 1st, Johnson and Moore but would they want that?

It would take, at minimum, a 1st, Johnson (or Williams), Moore and a contract worth about $3 million. Who's that contract? Dooling on an S&T? Would Dallas want Dooling for $2.6M? Would Dooling agree to it?

Exact same problem trying to get Lee with a S&T as trying to get Terry. The C's can get one for MLE money, but getting the other with a S&T is going to prove hard to pull off.

[TA9]

We could send Dooling for 2.6 million dollars. No doubt Dooling would accept that (Like he could get more at this point of his career). But would Dallas accept that? Im sure they could sign him outright for something between vet min and BAE.

[byennie]

Logically I would think that the OKC 2nd rounder and Dooling for 1 yr / $3M would be fine, it's something for nothing as otherwise we're signing him outright with no offer from Dallas. Dallas could even waive Dooling, they are just buying a draft pick and can do this after they are done signing FAs.

[saltlover]

It's certainly possible to sign-and-trade with Dallas, but essentially we would be giving them the same offer as Houston.  Dooling + non-guaranteed contract (Moore or Williams both work in terms of salary) + whatever else it takes to make a deal happen (cash and picks.)

Really it comes down to Danny and Lee agreeing on a contract for under $5.5 million this year, and either Dallas or Houston deciding how much a pick is worth in terms of cap space/luxury tax.  Also, possibly either of those teams was interested in seeing how Moore and/or Williams (and possibly JJJ) did in summer league in case they want to keep the playing instead of merely acquiring a non-guaranteed contract.  But, unless Lee gets offered over $5.5 million from some other team, I'd expect him to land here somehow.

EDIT:  It's also possible that they're closer to Mayo than one would expect, but unless he's lowered the price (which the market may have helped him to do), I would anticipate him costing too much.

[Lucky17]

Considering that Dallas is heavily interested in picking up the recently amnestied Elton Brand and/or Luis Scola, I doubt that a S&T for Terry would be of any interest to Dallas now. They need to preserve as much cap space as possible to submit bids.

[crownontherocks]

According to  WEEI , the  Boston Celtics  are attempting a sign-and-trade deal with shooting guard  Jason Terry  and the  Dallas Mavericks , hoping to gain an advantage in landing free agents Courtney Lee or O.J. Mayo. It appeared as though the Celtics were set on signing Terry to the mid-level exception, but now it seems as though they will try to bring Terry in via trade.  Regardless of ...


http://twitnewsnow.info/boston-celtics/report-boston-celtics-trying-to-work-signandt_137185518R40o_Jul2012.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

[crownontherocks]

The Boston Celtics are looking to execute a sign-and-trade with the Dallas Mavericks to land Jason Terry, which would leave their mid-level exception open for someone else (Courtney Lee, anybody???). Terry is still coming to Boston regardless, but Danny Ainge is looking to creatively acquire him while leaving room to add another bench stalwart. (Dallas Morning News via Celtics Life)

In regard to outgoing players, Jason Terry still hasn’t signed with Boston, but that deal has been agreed upon. Apparently, the only holdup is whether the Mavericks can figure out a way to sign-and-trade Terry rather than simply losing him in free agency for nothing.

It might be a way to get Terry a few more dollars, and it might net the Mavericks a second-round draft pick or something like that for the future.

Either way, it won’t stop the departure of Terry. He’s a Celtic. It’s just a matter of how that deal gets completed.

Obviously, a sign-and-trade for Terry works better for the Celtics. If Terry comes via the mid-level exception, Boston has no cap space to sign any of their top remaining targets, which include Lee and O.J. Mayo. If they could use their mid-level exception on someone other than Terry, suddenly Lee and maybe even Mayo become something less than a pipe dream.

[pearljammer10]

It still puzzles me as to how this wrks out... How do we have the cap space to get two mle level players regardless of if one is through a sign and trade?

[Brendan]

Answer to thread title: Yes!

It still puzzles me as to how this wrks out... How do we have the cap space to get two mle level players regardless of if one is through a sign and trade?

The key here is to understand there are 4 important numbers:

1. Minimum (not relevant for the C's)
2. Cap
3. Tax
4. Apron

When you are over the cap line, you can only make moves using exceptions. When you are over the tax line you lose some of the exceptions, when you are over the Apron you lose some more.

So for the C's, they can sign Lee with MLE, and still use a trade exception to get Terry. Or vice versa. Also the teams cap number is based on projected salary, but apron/tax for exception purposes are based on "real" salary commitments. The details are why teams have capologists.

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

It still puzzles me as to how this wrks out... How do we have the cap space to get two mle level players regardless of if one is through a sign and trade?

Terry wouldn't be a MLE player if he is sign and traded we would be using the extra money left from Ray (that you can only use now through a S&T player or on players like KG, Green, Bass). If Dallas doesn't do the S&T we will use the MLE on Terry then we would no longer have it. It is worth 5m and we would use it all on Terry. If we get the sign and trade of Terry, then the 5m MLE can be used on more than one person.

[lon3lytoaster]

It still puzzles me as to how this wrks out... How do we have the cap space to get two mle level players regardless of if one is through a sign and trade?

They key is matching salaries (Although we wouldn't have to send Dallas a full 5M back) Terry signs with Dallas, Dallas has his bird rights, they then trade him to us for a couple of contracts laying around and a pick or two maybe.

Then they don't lose Terry for nothing, we don't lose our exception and we're able to use it to sign someone else.