Sullinger = Solid!

[kozlodoev]

You like Hollins because he always looks like he's playing his heart out, but he's never DOING anything... 

TP - laughed out loud at work.

Good for comic relief, but not really true.

I, in particular, like him because he's big, mobile, and will play help defense. I do particularly dislike the moments when he tries to "play his heart out", because this usually ends up looking like a windmill that's gone out of control.

He's OK at playing help D, I will grant, but I'm not sure that's enough to overcome his severe limitations trying to defend bigger guys one-on-one and in trying to rebound.  He's tall, but it's hard to describe him as "big" - he's only big vertically.  He simply can't hold his ground, and that's just not going to change.  Fab Melo has to learn how to box out, but if he learns that he's going to have that quickness AND not be pushed around easily; even if Hollins was techically perfect, he's always going to be limited by his slight build.

Chicken with its head cut off; don't think I've ever seen a windmill go out of control (they usually have them bolted pretty well to the ground).

Why do we assume automatically that Melo won't be pushed around? All indications were that he's currently unable to body up stronger bigs.

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

Actually, i am tuning my Sully excitement down  
The kid is blatantly overweight!
No lift, super slow running up and down the court and looks like a liability on Defense!!
The crazy thing is people are still so high on him they down seem to see this!!
The only two things I like are his rebound positioning and his "touch"!
I'm not giving up on him after a couple of summer league games but what I'm saying is let's look at what is going on on the court and tell the truth!
Moore is balling and people on here are still dismissing him!
Sully has a lot of work to do to live up to his potential!! He is not there yet! Do not react like he is "solid" already!

Moore has been erratic at best. They are looking at him to be the back up POINT GUARD. Did you read Lue's comments before these games even began. I take it you didn't or you wouldn't think Moore is 'ballin'. They already know he can score. WE already know he can score. Can he RUN THE TEAM is the question and he definitely is not 'ballin' in that area so far these past three games. They really need to scrap the PG idea for him and use him in a S&T. Last thing we need is another undersized 2 guard. Bradley has that role already.

As for Sully, I agree he could lose a few pounds, but his size is what makes him. Don't forget he's JUST coming out of college and has zero days with B.Doo in the weight room. He's young, so him shedding some pounds will be fairly easy. He will bulk up and he definitely WILL be a force in the paint so there's PLENTY of reason to be enthused by what he's showing now when he really has no idea yet of how to play at the next level!

how is he "erratic"? He's played better and better in every game so far, and is consistently leading the offense while playing largely out of position at PG.  He's also under 2 turnovers a game, so its difficult to say that his ball handling has been bad.  A player averaging 15/4/4, with low turnovers and solid defense is far from erratic to me.  Yes, theyd like to judge his abilities at running the offense, but thats almost impossible to do in summer league, because he's playing with people that dont know the plays (if theyve even been introduced to them yet).  IMO, the last 2 games, Moore has been the C's best player.

You can't argue over Moore... some make bold statements with nothing to show for it ("abysmal" "terrible" "bad" "erratic"). I mean, what more can the guy do is the question. I think people want someone picked at 55 to be RR. I think his assist for SL are 4/4/3... those aren't eye popping stats but for a guy playing with people he hasn't played with before, playing out of position, COMBINED with the other stats... if it was anyone else they would say that was really good out of the starting PG!!! 15/4/3/1 game 3, coming off of 15/5/4/1/1 game 2... tell me you wouldn't take those games out of most of the PGs who aren't in the elite category?! Pfft! After he got beat up on defense in game 1 a little, he has been solid since! I know I said I'm not going to argue over Moore anymore but this stuff is CRAZY!

[drogbagarnett]

Actually, i am tuning my Sully excitement down  
The kid is blatantly overweight!
No lift, super slow running up and down the court and looks like a liability on Defense!!
The crazy thing is people are still so high on him they down seem to see this!!
The only two things I like are his rebound positioning and his "touch"!
I'm not giving up on him after a couple of summer league games but what I'm saying is let's look at what is going on on the court and tell the truth!
Moore is balling and people on here are still dismissing him!
Sully has a lot of work to do to live up to his potential!! He is not there yet! Do not react like he is "solid" already!

Uhm sully never had lift and probaly never will. He may have not been sprinting up the court but the guy still got into low post position once he go there. I wouldn't say Moore is ballin because well hes not. Like you said "look at the whole game" He loves to force shots and not look for the open man. He is a shoot 1st guy and that is not the type of PG i care for.

I was excited with Sully because I saw players like Brand, Boozer, Love, Bass, Big Baby, etc performing well at the highest level and getting paid big time despite having little to no lift (compared to the average NBA player) and being shorter at their position on most nights.
But my issue is for him to become "solid" like you make him he needs to have what those guys aforementioned had to get to survive (and thrive) in the NBA : convert the fat into muscle and compensate athleticism with activity!
It's not a knock on him to tell him the truth!
He does have a bright future but only if he can get in better shape and increase is activity!
You guys are fans so I guess I should let you get excited about a young prospect but I do hope that the Celtics organization and Doc and KG would be on his ass to make him work harder and fulfill his potential!

As for Moore, I understand everyone wants to have a Rondo Jr on the bench but the reality of our league is that there are scoring point guards and passing point guards!
It's better to have one scoring PG and one passing PG.
The league is full of scoring guard that play the point and you guys are acting like sometimes we dont wish to have Rondo aggressively scoring points!
Having already Rondo in our team, I wouldn't mind having a guard who can bring the ball up (Moore can do it), initiate the offense (he can do it too) and go to the corner and wait for the play to develop... When the rock comes back to him he can shoot the 3 ball (Moore can do it) or put the ball down and attack the rim for a layup or a floater (Moore does it very well).
Sully had 5 turnover and Moore only 2 despite being the point guard.
Has for forcing shoots, he finished with 5-11 and sully 6-12 despite holding a position that is closer to the basket...

Moore has been erratic at best. They are looking at him to be the back up POINT GUARD. Did you read Lue's comments before these games even began. I take it you didn't or you wouldn't think Moore is 'ballin'. They already know he can score. WE already know he can score. Can he RUN THE TEAM is the question and he definitely is not 'ballin' in that area so far these past three games. They really need to scrap the PG idea for him and use him in a S&T. Last thing we need is another undersized 2 guard. Bradley has that role already.

You guys are putting a little too much into this "RUN THE TEAM" thing! If your 3rd string back up point guard can bring the ball up and initiate the offense he is doing is job! There aren't a lot of Rondos out there! Do not expect that out of him! Moore can do the job of a 3rd string back up PG and add some more!! He is a good 3 point shooter, he can drive the lane and finish at the rim or with a floater, he has a good mid range J and can defend!!
Having a scoring PG is not a curse!
Westbrook took his team to the final! Rose was named MVP!
Let Moore be Moore and bring more to the table despite "running the team"!
Do we remember his contribution in that game in Orlando??
Having such a player at the very end of your bench is not that bad! Moore is playing like he deserves his spot! And that's the truth!

[elcotte]

[quote author=drogbagarnett link=topic=58521.msg1271016#msg1271016



Moore has been erratic at best. They are looking at him to be the back up POINT GUARD. Did you read Lue's comments before these games even began. I take it you didn't or you wouldn't think Moore is 'ballin'. They already know he can score. WE already know he can score. Can he RUN THE TEAM is the question and he definitely is not 'ballin' in that area so far these past three games. They really need to scrap the PG idea for him and use him in a S&T. Last thing we need is another undersized 2 guard. Bradley has that role already.

And let's remember that Moore isn't playing backup POINT GAURD with KG, AB, PP and Jeff Green. Running a team that was thrown together two games ago is not the same thing.
Lighten up.

[drogbagarnett]

how is he "erratic"? He's played better and better in every game so far, and is consistently leading the offense while playing largely out of position at PG.  He's also under 2 turnovers a game, so its difficult to say that his ball handling has been bad.  A player averaging 15/4/4, with low turnovers and solid defense is far from erratic to me.  Yes, theyd like to judge his abilities at running the offense, but thats almost impossible to do in summer league, because he's playing with people that dont know the plays (if theyve even been introduced to them yet).  IMO, the last 2 games, Moore has been the C's best player.

Thank you! TP!

[drogbagarnett]

You can't argue over Moore... some make bold statements with nothing to show for it ("abysmal" "terrible" "bad" "erratic"). I mean, what more can the guy do is the question. I think people want someone picked at 55 to be RR. I think his assist for SL are 4/4/3... those aren't eye popping stats but for a guy playing with people he hasn't played with before, playing out of position, COMBINED with the other stats... if it was anyone else they would say that was really good out of the starting PG!!! 15/4/3/1 game 3, coming off of 15/5/4/1/1 game 2... tell me you wouldn't take those games out of most of the PGs who aren't in the elite category?! Pfft! After he got beat up on defense in game 1 a little, he has been solid since! I know I said I'm not going to argue over Moore anymore but this stuff is CRAZY!

Another Thank You!
Another TP!

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

Actually, i am tuning my Sully excitement down  
The kid is blatantly overweight!
No lift, super slow running up and down the court and looks like a liability on Defense!!
The crazy thing is people are still so high on him they down seem to see this!!
The only two things I like are his rebound positioning and his "touch"!
I'm not giving up on him after a couple of summer league games but what I'm saying is let's look at what is going on on the court and tell the truth!
Moore is balling and people on here are still dismissing him!
Sully has a lot of work to do to live up to his potential!! He is not there yet! Do not react like he is "solid" already!

Uhm sully never had lift and probaly never will. He may have not been sprinting up the court but the guy still got into low post position once he go there. I wouldn't say Moore is ballin because well hes not. Like you said "look at the whole game" He loves to force shots and not look for the open man. He is a shoot 1st guy and that is not the type of PG i care for.

I was excited with Sully because I saw players like Brand, Boozer, Love, Bass, Big Baby, etc performing well at the highest level and getting paid big time despite having little to no lift (compared to the average NBA player) and being shorter at their position on most nights.
But my issue is for him to become "solid" like you make him he needs to have what those guys aforementioned had to get to survive (and thrive) in the NBA : convert the fat into muscle and compensate athleticism with activity!
It's not a knock on him to tell him the truth!
He does have a bright future but only if he can get in better shape and increase is activity!
You guys are fans so I guess I should let you get excited about a young prospect but I do hope that the Celtics organization and Doc and KG would be on his ass to make him work harder and fulfill his potential!

As for Moore, I understand everyone wants to have a Rondo Jr on the bench but the reality of our league is that there are scoring point guards and passing point guards!
It's better to have one scoring PG and one passing PG.
The league is full of scoring guard that play the point and you guys are acting like sometimes we dont wish to have Rondo aggressively scoring points!
Having already Rondo in our team, I wouldn't mind having a guard who can bring the ball up (Moore can do it), initiate the offense (he can do it too) and go to the corner and wait for the play to develop... When the rock comes back to him he can shoot the 3 ball (Moore can do it) or put the ball down and attack the rim for a layup or a floater (Moore does it very well).
Sully had 5 turnover and Moore only 2 despite being the point guard.
Has for forcing shoots, he finished with 5-11 and sully 6-12 despite holding a position that is closer to the basket...

Moore has been erratic at best. They are looking at him to be the back up POINT GUARD. Did you read Lue's comments before these games even began. I take it you didn't or you wouldn't think Moore is 'ballin'. They already know he can score. WE already know he can score. Can he RUN THE TEAM is the question and he definitely is not 'ballin' in that area so far these past three games. They really need to scrap the PG idea for him and use him in a S&T. Last thing we need is another undersized 2 guard. Bradley has that role already.

You guys are putting a little too much into this "RUN THE TEAM" thing! If your 3rd string back up point guard can bring the ball up and initiate the offense he is doing is job! There aren't a lot of Rondos out there! Do not expect that out of him! Moore can do the job of a 3rd string back up PG and add some more!! He is a good 3 point shooter, he can drive the lane and finish at the rim or with a floater, he has a good mid range J and can defend!!
Having a scoring PG is not a curse!
Westbrook took his team to the final! Rose was named MVP!
Let Moore be Moore and bring more to the table despite "running the team"!
Do we remember his contribution in that game in Orlando??
Having such a player at the very end of your bench is not that bad! Moore is playing like he deserves his spot! And that's the truth!

TP to all of that except... Moore was 6-11 and Sully was 7-12.

[ManUp]

Actually, i am tuning my Sully excitement down 
The kid is blatantly overweight!
No lift, super slow running up and down the court and looks like a liability on Defense!!
The crazy thing is people are still so high on him they down seem to see this!!
The only two things I like are his rebound positioning and his "touch"!
I'm not giving up on him after a couple of summer league games but what I'm saying is let's look at what is going on on the court and tell the truth!
Moore is balling and people on here are still dismissing him!
Sully has a lot of work to do to live up to his potential!! He is not there yet! Do not react like he is "solid" already!

What does his weight matter when he's clearly a really good basketball player? His defense is the only part of his game that's questionable and so far in SL it hasn't been a problem. He's shown solid passing, shooting, post scoring and great rebounding.  Imo, that translate into a pretty solid player. I think Sullinger will be ready to contribute right away and will be a beast for us off the bench.

[mainevent]

You can't argue over Moore... some make bold statements with nothing to show for it ("abysmal" "terrible" "bad" "erratic"). I mean, what more can the guy do is the question. I think people want someone picked at 55 to be RR. I think his assist for SL are 4/4/3... those aren't eye popping stats but for a guy playing with people he hasn't played with before, playing out of position, COMBINED with the other stats... if it was anyone else they would say that was really good out of the starting PG!!! 15/4/3/1 game 3, coming off of 15/5/4/1/1 game 2... tell me you wouldn't take those games out of most of the PGs who aren't in the elite category?! Pfft! After he got beat up on defense in game 1 a little, he has been solid since! I know I said I'm not going to argue over Moore anymore but this stuff is CRAZY!

Another Thank You!
Another TP!

IF Moore is on the team this season, it will be the 5th guard off the bench again, book it! He will NOT be backup PG and Jet is backing up the 2. Not that I dislike the kid because fact is, I was hoping he'd get some of KD's minutes last season, but what he is is a lesser extent of we already have in AB. We need a PG to spell Rondo that knows how to set the offense. Am I the only one here who saw how we struggled with RR out of the game last season because that person to settle the team and operate within the offense didn't exist? Don't disillusion yourselves with scoring points during a summer league game. If that's what you're looking at then maybe he should start!

[danglertx]

I've watched all three games, actually DVR'd them and watched them again.  A couple points disagreeing with various people.

First, Moore's handle is horrible.  For a point guard.  When he is pressured, like on the opening tip where the opposing guard knocked the ball 50ft back down court and out of the endline leaving the Celtics with 2 seconds to cross the timeline.  If he is the Celtics point guard, our 2 will have to bring the ball upcourt against pressure.  He even has a hard time creating space to make passes in the half court. 

If we don't get Lee or Mayo I could see him coming back, but if we get one of them I doubt we have room to keep Moore because we will need a true backup point.

The other point was Sullinger and defense.  I've rewatched the games to watch how Melo and Sullinger are on defense and Sullinger has been great.  He helps and recovers really well.  He shows well on picks (got split once by I think Stevenson showing too far).  If his man sets the pick he retreats to cover the picked man's guy until he recovers and hustles back.  He seems to have a really good understanding of team defense.  He even took two charges today (one was missed and called a block that should at the very least have been a no call.)  I have no complaints at all about his defense.

[fandrew]

I've watched all three games, actually DVR'd them and watched them again.  A couple points disagreeing with various people.

First, Moore's handle is horrible.  For a point guard.  When he is pressured, like on the opening tip where the opposing guard knocked the ball 50ft back down court and out of the endline leaving the Celtics with 2 seconds to cross the timeline.  If he is the Celtics point guard, our 2 will have to bring the ball upcourt against pressure.  He even has a hard time creating space to make passes in the half court. 

If we don't get Lee or Mayo I could see him coming back, but if we get one of them I doubt we have room to keep Moore because we will need a true backup point.

The other point was Sullinger and defense.  I've rewatched the games to watch how Melo and Sullinger are on defense and Sullinger has been great.  He helps and recovers really well.  He shows well on picks (got split once by I think Stevenson showing too far).  If his man sets the pick he retreats to cover the picked man's guy until he recovers and hustles back.  He seems to have a really good understanding of team defense.  He even took two charges today (one was missed and called a block that should at the very least have been a no call.)  I have no complaints at all about his defense.

How did Sully get 5 TO's in the game today?

[drogbagarnett]

IF Moore is on the team this season, it will be the 5th guard off the bench again, book it! He will NOT be backup PG and Jet is backing up the 2. Not that I dislike the kid because fact is, I was hoping he'd get some of KD's minutes last season, but what he is is a lesser extent of we already have in AB. We need a PG to spell Rondo that knows how to set the offense. Am I the only one here who saw how we struggled with RR out of the game last season because that person to settle the team and operate within the offense didn't exist? Don't disillusion yourselves with scoring points during a summer league game. If that's what you're looking at then maybe he should start!

So basically you would like to have two Rondos on this team!
That would be GREAT!!
Let me know when we can find and sign one!
Meanwhile, I see Moore with more assist than Turnover! Handling the ball fine, initiating the offense, scoring and defending!
Again, for a 3rd string point guard (as insurance) who will be in street clothes come playoff time, I don't think Moore is too bad! Now if you want to find another Rondo then I will be agreeing with you that he is better than Moore...
Again, I saw a scoring PG win the MVP in this league and I saw one bringing is team to the finals last year and none of them has Rondo's "team running" skills but are doing fine with their team!
Moore is cheap, available, with celtics experience, and can bring the ball up, initiate the offense, shot the 3, shot the mid range J, drive in the lane, finish at the rim with lay ups or floaters and defend! What else do you guys want from a 3rd string PG who will be in street clothes come playoff time..
LoooooL!!!
Can't believe this!!

Most likely it could be :

Rondo   Terry   Moore/Rondo Jr??
Bradley Lee/(??)Pietrus/Dooling
Pierce  Green   Joseph
Bass    Sully   Wilcox/JJJ/Williams
KG      Stiesma Melo (Or a new Center instead of Stiesma)

The 3 that will be out of the playoff 12 man roster could be Moore, Joseph and Melo.

So for a team with payroll limitation, where are you going to go get and pay a Rondo Jr...?

Jeez!

Moore is producing enough to be that 3rd string insurance PG!

[ScottHow]

I'm pretty excited to see what Sully can do when he's not the best offensive weapon on the floor. Kid just knows how to score.

[st.jimmy222]

Just finished watching the Celtics' third summer league game and I can't be happier about our young guys.. Etwaun 's pretty steady at the point... Jajuan's coming along... Kris Joseph's proving he's a keeper... Melo can pass! Sean Williams, well, he still sucks... But the biggest news is of course Jared SUllinger! A lot of things have been said about his size and back issues but to me, we really got the steal of the draft! He's not flashy, not dominant, but he just consistently works... And he's a winner! Can't wait till the season starts!

I'm still inclined to keep Williams over Hollins though.  

Neither one is a basketball player. Hollins a little better defensively.

Sully taught me the lesson that you can't judge a book by its cover. Everything about him screamed Big Baby Davis with longer arms. But i was wrong. He is the antithesis of big baby. Sully is Mature for one. He is more polished player. And last but not least, he knows how to play the game. Certain guys just get it. Sully is one of those guys.

yah but how much better would baby be without those little T-Rex arms

[clover]

IF Moore is on the team this season, it will be the 5th guard off the bench again, book it! He will NOT be backup PG and Jet is backing up the 2. Not that I dislike the kid because fact is, I was hoping he'd get some of KD's minutes last season, but what he is is a lesser extent of we already have in AB. We need a PG to spell Rondo that knows how to set the offense. Am I the only one here who saw how we struggled with RR out of the game last season because that person to settle the team and operate within the offense didn't exist? Don't disillusion yourselves with scoring points during a summer league game. If that's what you're looking at then maybe he should start!

So basically you would like to have two Rondos on this team!
That would be GREAT!!
Let me know when we can find and sign one!
Meanwhile, I see Moore with more assist than Turnover! Handling the ball fine, initiating the offense, scoring and defending!
Again, for a 3rd string point guard (as insurance) who will be in street clothes come playoff time, I don't think Moore is too bad! Now if you want to find another Rondo then I will be agreeing with you that he is better than Moore...
Again, I saw a scoring PG win the MVP in this league and I saw one bringing is team to the finals last year and none of them has Rondo's "team running" skills but are doing fine with their team!
Moore is cheap, available, with celtics experience, and can bring the ball up, initiate the offense, shot the 3, shot the mid range J, drive in the lane, finish at the rim with lay ups or floaters and defend! What else do you guys want from a 3rd string PG who will be in street clothes come playoff time..
LoooooL!!!
Can't believe this!!

Most likely it could be :

Rondo   Terry   Moore/Rondo Jr??
Bradley Lee/(??)Pietrus/Dooling
Pierce  Green   Joseph
Bass    Sully   Wilcox/JJJ/Williams
KG      Stiesma Melo (Or a new Center instead of Stiesma)

The 3 that will be out of the playoff 12 man roster could be Moore, Joseph and Melo.

So for a team with payroll limitation, where are you going to go get and pay a Rondo Jr...?

Jeez!

Moore is producing enough to be that 3rd string insurance PG!

I'd actually call him fourth string--behind Jet and AB as well.  And I thought the C's did okay, even though ball handling was a joint duty, in those few games where AB filled in for Rondo.

I think Moore is a minor asset that Danny may want to see pumped and dumped sooner rather than later.  To me, a couple of the beat reporters have been suspiciously quick to repeatedly and confidently declare him the best Celtic on the SL floor.

But if he doesn't go as part of a larger trade in the next couple of weeks, I could see him stashed there instead of Dooling, given that he has a minuscule salary and could be an appreciating, rather than depreciating, asset.