celts would offer JET full MLE

[the_Bird]

heck..i want ray and terry...BUT if ray goes elsewhere...JET is a great pick up...then spend ray's money on someone else...

You can't, though - that's the problem.  We don't have any cap space, so the only way we can "spend" Ray's money is either on Ray Allen or to do a sign & trade to Ray's new team.

Short of a S&T, all we have to work with are the MLE and vet-min contracts.  Do you want to use that MLE on a wing, or a big?

Don't fool yourself into thinking that if we sign JET, we'll still sign Ray Allen.  It's an either/or situation, if for no other reason than Ray's not going to re-sign if he knows he's going to be scrapping for minutes against both Bradley and JET.  There just aren't that many minutes to go around, and Ray wants to play (and I don't blame him).

If we sign JET, Ray Allen's not coming back.

I keep coming back to; I'm much rather have a 2-guard rotation of Ray/AB/Pietrus, AND have Marcus Camby at the 5, than Ray/AB/JET, and not be able to sign any other bigs with the MLE.  

I'd rather have JET than Ray.  Terry is simply the better player, by far, at this point.

There is only so much money available under the tax to pay our own FA's.  If Ray doesn't come back, then we have the money to possibly bring in Wilcox, Krystic, Steimsma, AND Bass for a very nice big rotation with KG, wing rotation with Pierce, Green, Terry, and Bradley, and Rondo running the show.

I'd almost prefer to not sign Ray and to have an extra big instead.

Wilcox gets the $3M he got last year, plus raises.

Steimsma gets the BAE.

Bass and Kystic, too.

Unless Danny wants Doc to play a young guy, then we take either Bass or Krystic, but not both.

I just think we need to bring in another big, not someone that's already on the roster.  Bass is OK, but he's not good enough.  Wilcox was OK.  Stiemer...  meh.  Worth keeping, but as a backup.  Kystic, I think people forget how bad he was at the things we need our 5s to do; we don't need offense, we need rebounding and D.  None of those guys should be starting.

I keep coming back to Camby, because while I agree that JET > Ray, in my mind an old Camby is still >>>>>> any of these guys.  

[AB_Celtic]

heck..i want ray and terry...BUT if ray goes elsewhere...JET is a great pick up...then spend ray's money on someone else...

You can't, though - that's the problem.  We don't have any cap space, so the only way we can "spend" Ray's money is either on Ray Allen or to do a sign & trade to Ray's new team.

Short of a S&T, all we have to work with are the MLE and vet-min contracts.  Do you want to use that MLE on a wing, or a big?

Don't fool yourself into thinking that if we sign JET, we'll still sign Ray Allen.  It's an either/or situation, if for no other reason than Ray's not going to re-sign if he knows he's going to be scrapping for minutes against both Bradley and JET.  There just aren't that many minutes to go around, and Ray wants to play (and I don't blame him).

If we sign JET, Ray Allen's not coming back.

I keep coming back to; I'm much rather have a 2-guard rotation of Ray/AB/Pietrus, AND have Marcus Camby at the 5, than Ray/AB/JET, and not be able to sign any other bigs with the MLE.  

I'd rather have JET than Ray.  Terry is simply the better player, by far, at this point.

There is only so much money available under the tax to pay our own FA's.  If Ray doesn't come back, then we have the money to possibly bring in Wilcox, Krystic, Steimsma, AND Bass for a very nice big rotation with KG, wing rotation with Pierce, Green, Terry, and Bradley, and Rondo running the show.

I'd almost prefer to not sign Ray and to have an extra big instead.

Wilcox gets the $3M he got last year, plus raises.

Steimsma gets the BAE.

Bass and Kystic, too.

Unless Danny wants Doc to play a young guy, then we take either Bass or Krystic, but not both.

I just think we need to bring in another big, not someone that's already on the roster.  Bass is OK, but he's not good enough.  Wilcox was OK.  Stiemer...  meh.  Worth keeping, but as a backup.  Kystic, I think people forget how bad he was at the things we need our 5s to do; we don't need offense, we need rebounding and D.  None of those guys should be starting.

I keep coming back to Camby, because while I agree that JET > Ray, in my mind an old Camby is still >>>>>> any of these guys.  

Camby is still one of the most efficient centers in the NBA.

He wants to win and he wants to start.

We can give him both of those things.

[Jon]

Sorry to say this, but Ray is screwing us right now.  If Ray would just agree to the $12/2 year deal that he's been offered, then we would have the MLE to spend on front line help.  Plus, there isn't even a guarantee that JET will accept the MLE. 

Ray's got us in scramble mode. 

Everything I've heard/seen is that our MLE offer to terry isn't contingent on Ray not coming back.

My guess is that the C's don't like any of the front court options out their for the MLE.

Rondo/Bradley/Terry/Ray is an awfully crowded backcourt.  Hard to see Ray or Terry breaking much higher than 20 mpg in that scenario - a pretty steep drop in role for guys with their egos. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have that problem (and I'm sure Doc would too), but I think that makes it pretty unlikely that both would sign here.   

I wouldn't be unhappy with a JET/Pietrus backcourt if Ray does leave, though.  Might even like that better than JET/Ray. 

Well, in that case, I think we'd see Green get a lot of minutes at the 4 spot.  That would free up some minutes at the 3 for Ray to slide there for 10 mpg or so to free up some more minutes.  

It's not ideal size-wise, but I've always felt size was somewhat overrated (see Posey and Pietrus getting minutes at the 4), particularly when the smaller options give a team dramatically more talent on the floor.  

[the_Bird]

Personally, I don't understand the infatuation with retaining Ray. Time to move on.

What's so complicated about it?  It's a way to keep a good 2-guard around without using up exemptions that would be better used (I believe) filling the team's more-pressing needs.  If there was no salary cap and exemptions to work around, I'd rather have JET too - but we've got to work within the parameters of the system.

[the_Bird]

heck..i want ray and terry...BUT if ray goes elsewhere...JET is a great pick up...then spend ray's money on someone else...

You can't, though - that's the problem.  We don't have any cap space, so the only way we can "spend" Ray's money is either on Ray Allen or to do a sign & trade to Ray's new team.

Short of a S&T, all we have to work with are the MLE and vet-min contracts.  Do you want to use that MLE on a wing, or a big?

Don't fool yourself into thinking that if we sign JET, we'll still sign Ray Allen.  It's an either/or situation, if for no other reason than Ray's not going to re-sign if he knows he's going to be scrapping for minutes against both Bradley and JET.  There just aren't that many minutes to go around, and Ray wants to play (and I don't blame him).

If we sign JET, Ray Allen's not coming back.

I keep coming back to; I'm much rather have a 2-guard rotation of Ray/AB/Pietrus, AND have Marcus Camby at the 5, than Ray/AB/JET, and not be able to sign any other bigs with the MLE.  

I'd rather have JET than Ray.  Terry is simply the better player, by far, at this point.

There is only so much money available under the tax to pay our own FA's.  If Ray doesn't come back, then we have the money to possibly bring in Wilcox, Krystic, Steimsma, AND Bass for a very nice big rotation with KG, wing rotation with Pierce, Green, Terry, and Bradley, and Rondo running the show.

I'd almost prefer to not sign Ray and to have an extra big instead.

Wilcox gets the $3M he got last year, plus raises.

Steimsma gets the BAE.

Bass and Kystic, too.

Unless Danny wants Doc to play a young guy, then we take either Bass or Krystic, but not both.

I just think we need to bring in another big, not someone that's already on the roster.  Bass is OK, but he's not good enough.  Wilcox was OK.  Stiemer...  meh.  Worth keeping, but as a backup.  Kystic, I think people forget how bad he was at the things we need our 5s to do; we don't need offense, we need rebounding and D.  None of those guys should be starting.

I keep coming back to Camby, because while I agree that JET > Ray, in my mind an old Camby is still >>>>>> any of these guys.  

Camby is still one of the most efficient centers in the NBA.

He wants to win and he wants to start.

We can give him both of those things.

I mean, look at his advanced stats.  His rebounding rate is nearly identical to  Dwight Howard's.  I know he doesn't do much on the offensive end, but he doesn't kill you there (he's no Perk, no disrespect to Kendrick).  Smart player.  Great defensively.  He'd let KG at least start at the 4, even if he plays a lot still at the 5 alongside Bass or Green.

Doesn't Camby FIT a lot better with the team's needs than Terry?  Especially if Green returns to be the bench scorer?

[snively]

Sorry to say this, but Ray is screwing us right now.  If Ray would just agree to the $12/2 year deal that he's been offered, then we would have the MLE to spend on front line help.  Plus, there isn't even a guarantee that JET will accept the MLE. 

Ray's got us in scramble mode. 

Everything I've heard/seen is that our MLE offer to terry isn't contingent on Ray not coming back.

My guess is that the C's don't like any of the front court options out their for the MLE.

Rondo/Bradley/Terry/Ray is an awfully crowded backcourt.  Hard to see Ray or Terry breaking much higher than 20 mpg in that scenario - a pretty steep drop in role for guys with their egos. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have that problem (and I'm sure Doc would too), but I think that makes it pretty unlikely that both would sign here.   

I wouldn't be unhappy with a JET/Pietrus backcourt if Ray does leave, though.  Might even like that better than JET/Ray. 

Well, in that case, I think we'd see Green get a lot of minutes at the 4 spot.  That would free up some minutes at the 3 for Ray to slide there for 10 mpg or so to free up some more minutes. 

It's not ideal size-wise, but I've always felt size was somewhat overrated (see Posey and Pietrus getting minutes at the 4), particularly when the smaller options give a team dramatically more talent on the floor. 

Those line-ups would get slaughtered on the boards and on defense.  Hard to conceive of a worse rebounding and a slighter defensive trio than Terry/Ray/Green at the 2/3/4.

[SHAQATTACK]

I'm about done with Ray Allen...get CAmby and Jet

[the_Bird]

I'm about done with Ray Allen...get CAmby and Jet

....  how?

[clover]

If Danny uses the full MLE on JET, he'd better hope he can get Bass or Krstic back. 

Otherwise, we'll either start the year with Green out of position again at the 4 or we'll have a vet minimum or BAE guy or Wilcox starting up front with KG.

[BudweiserCeltic]

Are we working under the assumption that Dallas wouldn't match an MLE offer, and that Terry wouldn't accept a Dallas offer if they match?

[Snakehead]

Would much rather have Terry than Allen. Terry is used to coming off the bench and has been a tremendous 6th man with Dallas throughout his career.

Ray Allen's game has declined and doesn't like coming off the bench.

Personally, I don't understand the infatuation with retaining Ray. Time to move on.

I want to keep Ray if we can because I believe in loyalty and chemistry.

However, in honesty, what you say about Terry is true about him being a better fit for the role and another factor is that Terry is more of a shot creator than Ray is, which is what we need in addition to shooting from that 6th man.

[the_Bird]

Are we working under the assumption that Dallas wouldn't match an MLE offer, and that Terry wouldn't accept a Dallas offer if they match?

Doesn't Dallas need to clear some space if they're going to sign Deron Williams?  I don't think they've got the money to sign D-Will, and bring back Terry.  Now, if D-Will stays in Brooklyn, Dallas will probably push hard to keep JET.

[wdleehi]

Are we working under the assumption that Dallas wouldn't match an MLE offer, and that Terry wouldn't accept a Dallas offer if they match?

Doesn't Dallas need to clear some space if they're going to sign Deron Williams?  I don't think they've got the money to sign D-Will, and bring back Terry.  Now, if D-Will stays in Brooklyn, Dallas will probably push hard to keep JET.

Celtics need Williams to drag his feet.

[Jon]

Sorry to say this, but Ray is screwing us right now.  If Ray would just agree to the $12/2 year deal that he's been offered, then we would have the MLE to spend on front line help.  Plus, there isn't even a guarantee that JET will accept the MLE. 

Ray's got us in scramble mode. 

Everything I've heard/seen is that our MLE offer to terry isn't contingent on Ray not coming back.

My guess is that the C's don't like any of the front court options out their for the MLE.

Rondo/Bradley/Terry/Ray is an awfully crowded backcourt.  Hard to see Ray or Terry breaking much higher than 20 mpg in that scenario - a pretty steep drop in role for guys with their egos. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have that problem (and I'm sure Doc would too), but I think that makes it pretty unlikely that both would sign here.   

I wouldn't be unhappy with a JET/Pietrus backcourt if Ray does leave, though.  Might even like that better than JET/Ray. 

Well, in that case, I think we'd see Green get a lot of minutes at the 4 spot.  That would free up some minutes at the 3 for Ray to slide there for 10 mpg or so to free up some more minutes. 

It's not ideal size-wise, but I've always felt size was somewhat overrated (see Posey and Pietrus getting minutes at the 4), particularly when the smaller options give a team dramatically more talent on the floor. 

Those line-ups would get slaughtered on the boards and on defense.  Hard to conceive of a worse rebounding and a slighter defensive trio than Terry/Ray/Green at the 2/3/4.

But it's not like we haven't trotted out small lineups before with Rondo/House/Ray/PP/KG.  Last year we were ending games with Rondo/Bradley/Ray/PP/KG quite a bit.  And we've consistently used Posey and Pietrus at the 4 in the Big 3 Era.  

Again, it's not ideal, but I'd take a lineup of Rondo/Terry/Ray/Green/KG over Rondo/Ray/Green/KG/insert random scrub (though ideally I wouldn't put Ray at the 3 when Green was at the 4).  Remember, the other team is either going to have to go small too to matchup or is going to have it's own share of mismatch problems too (3s would struggle to guard Ray off screens and 4s can't keep up with Green).  

[the_Bird]

Are we working under the assumption that Dallas wouldn't match an MLE offer, and that Terry wouldn't accept a Dallas offer if they match?

Doesn't Dallas need to clear some space if they're going to sign Deron Williams?  I don't think they've got the money to sign D-Will, and bring back Terry.  Now, if D-Will stays in Brooklyn, Dallas will probably push hard to keep JET.

Celtics need Williams to drag his feet.

...  or just sign in Dallas, which is what I'm rooting for.  Mostly because of how it would completely screw with Dwight.