NBA Grants Celtics a 2nd Round pick from OKC

[arambone]

Crap, Celtics only got Nets 2014 2nd rounder, not 2013.

[mctyson]

This is very confusing.

Why is OKC being forced to give us a pick?  On the surface, it would seem to imply OKC knew something.  Otherwise, how is trading a player with an undiscovered condition the fault of OKC?

If OKC did know something, how are they getting away with only having to give up a 2nd round pick?

My guess is OKC knew about the symptoms and just never acted on them.  Since OKC didn't have confirmed evidence of an actual heart condition, and the Celtics didn't exactly discover this right away either, this is why we are only getting a 2nd rounder.

Esentially, since the Celtics were never told about the symptoms and didn't discover them at first, they have plausible deniablity as to not acting sooner.  OKC on the other hand, failed to act on the discovery of the symptoms, thus the granting of a 2nd round pick to the C's.  The only part that I wonder about is, are more sanctions against OKC following?

If OKC did in fact know about the symptoms and fail to act, that is highly negligent.  I would hope, if true, the league would punish OKC further.  Maybe strip them of a future 1st and fine them.  Also, Green could very easily have a legitimate lawsuit against OKC.

This raises so many more questions.

My guess is OKC didn't know.  It is difficult to imagine OKC knowing, even if that knowledge was vague, about something as serious as an aortic deformity and still putting Jeff Green in the starting lineup every night, which is where he was right before the trade.

It is more likely that OKC was guilty of some sort of "malpractice" in that they did not perform the type of medical tests with rigor that are required to detect these conditions.  Either that, or their team docs clearly blew the call.

It is no coincidence that the Celtics discovered the condition with Jeff Green, and then subsequently determined Chris Wilcox's condition (which was know, but manageable) to be worthy of surgery. 

I am sure that when Danny found out about Jeff Green's medical issue, he asked the Celtics docs if there was any evidence of this in Green's medical history.  Once (and if) they said no, it was simply a question of whether OKC did enough testing to find this themselves.

Clearly OKC was at fault.

[mctyson]

Did anyone even know this dispute was out there?

My completely in-expert guess is that Celtics medical staff was able to demonstrate that OKC was either hiding information or utterly incompetent.  They can't rule out incompetence so the punishment isn't as severe as it would be if there were a smoking gun.  That's my guess, anyways.

Here is the problem though...in either of those instances, we should be hearing about a massive lawsuit, not a compensatory draft pick.

Something doesn't add up.  

My theory is that this is the league making a pre-emptive strike to "punish" OKC, so when the lawsuit comes to the league, they can show that they punished the guilty team, and are not part of the problem.  Basically like the NFL did with "bountygate"

I am not sure what kind of lawsuit you expect to filed here.  Or, to put this another way, what kind of damages the Celtics or the league would be seeking from OKC.

I guess the Celtics could ask for any of the money that they had to pay Green for this year back, but as I understand it his contract was voided.  So I am not sure there is much in the way of financial damages.

[Eddie20]

As for the pick, OKC was supposedly trying to trade out of the 1st rd this year, so wouldn't it be possible that we trade that Charlotte pick to OKC for their 1st this year? Doing this might give us greater leverage in moving up.

[Moranis]

I knew it. I knew it. I knew it. When Greens' condition was revealed I asked on this board the classic: "What did OKC know and when did they know it"? I was told that I was out of hand and to let it go by fellow fans here. I was convinced that OKC hid something and clearly they did.
What stinks is that the 2013 draft is being called absolutely horrible.

Seems like there are some decent players projected at the end of the first and second round next year.  A guy like Tim Hardaway Jr., for example, seems like he might turn out to be a decent pro. 

[Moranis]

Did anyone even know this dispute was out there?

My completely in-expert guess is that Celtics medical staff was able to demonstrate that OKC was either hiding information or utterly incompetent.  They can't rule out incompetence so the punishment isn't as severe as it would be if there were a smoking gun.  That's my guess, anyways.

Here is the problem though...in either of those instances, we should be hearing about a massive lawsuit, not a compensatory draft pick.

Something doesn't add up.  

My theory is that this is the league making a pre-emptive strike to "punish" OKC, so when the lawsuit comes to the league, they can show that they punished the guilty team, and are not part of the problem.  Basically like the NFL did with "bountygate"

I am not sure what kind of lawsuit you expect to filed here.  Or, to put this another way, what kind of damages the Celtics or the league would be seeking from OKC.

I guess the Celtics could ask for any of the money that they had to pay Green for this year back, but as I understand it his contract was voided.  So I am not sure there is much in the way of financial damages.

The lawsuit would likely come from Jeff Green.

[celtsfan84]

Did anyone even know this dispute was out there?

My completely in-expert guess is that Celtics medical staff was able to demonstrate that OKC was either hiding information or utterly incompetent.  They can't rule out incompetence so the punishment isn't as severe as it would be if there were a smoking gun.  That's my guess, anyways.

Here is the problem though...in either of those instances, we should be hearing about a massive lawsuit, not a compensatory draft pick.

Something doesn't add up.  

My theory is that this is the league making a pre-emptive strike to "punish" OKC, so when the lawsuit comes to the league, they can show that they punished the guilty team, and are not part of the problem.  Basically like the NFL did with "bountygate"

I am not sure what kind of lawsuit you expect to filed here.  Or, to put this another way, what kind of damages the Celtics or the league would be seeking from OKC.

I guess the Celtics could ask for any of the money that they had to pay Green for this year back, but as I understand it his contract was voided.  So I am not sure there is much in the way of financial damages.

The lawsuit would likely come from Jeff Green.

If Jeff Green continues his NBA career, it would really be difficult for him to claim any damages here.  He is alive and well, and he and his agent and medics consider him healthy enough to play.  What would this lawsuit be founded on?  The Thunder failed to catch a rare medical condition that they likely don't test for.  Cuttino Mobley didn't sue the Rockets or Kings. Jerome Harrison didn't sue the Lions or Browns.

Researching the condition a bit, it looks like a rare condition that mostly occurs in older people.  A one-time screening is recommended for those who have smoked between ages 65-75.  Jeff Green is not an elderly smoker.

It doesn't seem like this would be something easy to catch or that would just show up in a blood test or something.  It is impossible to screen every NBA player for every possible ailment.  It could just have been a stroke of luck that the Celtics foudn this and the Thudner didn't.

[saltlover]

Did anyone even know this dispute was out there?

My completely in-expert guess is that Celtics medical staff was able to demonstrate that OKC was either hiding information or utterly incompetent.  They can't rule out incompetence so the punishment isn't as severe as it would be if there were a smoking gun.  That's my guess, anyways.

Here is the problem though...in either of those instances, we should be hearing about a massive lawsuit, not a compensatory draft pick.

Something doesn't add up. 

My theory is that this is the league making a pre-emptive strike to "punish" OKC, so when the lawsuit comes to the league, they can show that they punished the guilty team, and are not part of the problem.  Basically like the NFL did with "bountygate"

I am not sure what kind of lawsuit you expect to filed here.  Or, to put this another way, what kind of damages the Celtics or the league would be seeking from OKC.

I guess the Celtics could ask for any of the money that they had to pay Green for this year back, but as I understand it his contract was voided.  So I am not sure there is much in the way of financial damages.

The lawsuit would likely come from Jeff Green.

If Jeff Green continues his NBA career, it would really be difficult for him to claim any damages here.  He is alive and well, and he and his agent and medics consider him healthy enough to play.  What would this lawsuit be founded on?

If the doctors actually ignored symptoms last year, there would be a lot to found a lawsuit on.  Firstly, he would have had surgery in time to be able to play this past season and get paid $9 million.  Secondly, they would have jeopardized his life, which, even though he did not suffer harm, put him at risk, which would certainly carry punitive damages.

I'm not sure that's what happened, although that the NBA was willing to award the Celtics real compensation from OKC implies that someone knew something, or at least should have known something.

[celtsfan84]

Did anyone even know this dispute was out there?

My completely in-expert guess is that Celtics medical staff was able to demonstrate that OKC was either hiding information or utterly incompetent.  They can't rule out incompetence so the punishment isn't as severe as it would be if there were a smoking gun.  That's my guess, anyways.

Here is the problem though...in either of those instances, we should be hearing about a massive lawsuit, not a compensatory draft pick.

Something doesn't add up. 

My theory is that this is the league making a pre-emptive strike to "punish" OKC, so when the lawsuit comes to the league, they can show that they punished the guilty team, and are not part of the problem.  Basically like the NFL did with "bountygate"

I am not sure what kind of lawsuit you expect to filed here.  Or, to put this another way, what kind of damages the Celtics or the league would be seeking from OKC.

I guess the Celtics could ask for any of the money that they had to pay Green for this year back, but as I understand it his contract was voided.  So I am not sure there is much in the way of financial damages.

The lawsuit would likely come from Jeff Green.

If Jeff Green continues his NBA career, it would really be difficult for him to claim any damages here.  He is alive and well, and he and his agent and medics consider him healthy enough to play.  What would this lawsuit be founded on?

If the doctors actually ignored symptoms last year, there would be a lot to found a lawsuit on.  Firstly, he would have had surgery in time to be able to play this past season and get paid $9 million.  Secondly, they would have jeopardized his life, which, even though he did not suffer harm, put him at risk, which would certainly carry punitive damages.

I'm not sure that's what happened, although that the NBA was willing to award the Celtics real compensation from OKC implies that someone knew something, or at least should have known something.

I'm not a doctor, but according to WebMD:
Most people with aortic aneurysms, especially ones in the chest area (thoracic aortic aneurysms ), do not have symptoms.

Hard to base a lawsuit on not detecting non-existent symptoms.

No physical can check every person for every possible ailment.

If there is a lawsuit, Jeff Green is very likely to lose it.

[BballTim]

Did anyone even know this dispute was out there?

My completely in-expert guess is that Celtics medical staff was able to demonstrate that OKC was either hiding information or utterly incompetent.  They can't rule out incompetence so the punishment isn't as severe as it would be if there were a smoking gun.  That's my guess, anyways.

  I would guess that the OKC staff saw something on previous tests that's rarely indicative of a serious problem and didn't disclose it. Not based on anything, but many of these athletes have enlarged hearts to begin with. I doubt they have perfectly normal EKG test results. Not an expert, btw.

[celtsfan84]

Did anyone even know this dispute was out there?

My completely in-expert guess is that Celtics medical staff was able to demonstrate that OKC was either hiding information or utterly incompetent.  They can't rule out incompetence so the punishment isn't as severe as it would be if there were a smoking gun.  That's my guess, anyways.

  I would guess that the OKC staff saw something on previous tests that's rarely indicative of a serious problem and didn't disclose it. Not based on anything, but many of these athletes have enlarged hearts to begin with. I doubt they have perfectly normal EKG test results. Not an expert, btw.

That's more or less my exact guess.  The Thunder saw something that seemed harmless and is usually symptomatic of nothing, didn't test further for a highly unlikely condition, would have been right 99.99% of the time, and the Celtics happened to catch a very rare ailment.

Thus the Thunder is being given a small penalty and the Celtics a small reward.

Nothing to see here, everyone moves on, we get an extra pick, Jeff Green is healthy and happy.  That's my guess for the conclusion.

We have seen many heart ailments in sports before and no major malpractice lawsuits.

[heitingas]

Celtics also owns the Cavs 2nd rounder in 2013 (Harangody-Erden trade) unprotected.

And now the Bobcats 2nd rounder, both likely 31-35. Their own 2nd rounder and their number 21 and 22 this year, those are 5 picks the C's can trade this summer.

[saltlover]

Celtics also owns the Cavs 2nd rounder in 2013 (Harangody-Erden trade) unprotected.

And now the Bobcats 2nd rounder, both likely 31-35. Their own 2nd rounder and their number 21 and 22 this year, those are 5 picks the C's can trade this summer.

I'm fairly (99%) sure that the Celtics got Minny's 2nd rounder from the Cavs in the Erden-Gody deal.  But yes, we have what looks to be two early second-rounders next season.

[LooseCannon]

The Celtics are owed:

Boston Celtics: Receives 2012 first-round pick (top-10 protected through 2015) from the L.A. Clippers via the Oklahoma City Thunder via the Kendrick Perkins trade on 2/24/11.

Boston Celtics: Receives Minnesota’s 2013 second-round pick (via Boston from the Delonte West trade on 7/26/10) via the Luke Harangody trade on 2/24/11.

Boston Celtics: Receives New Jersey’s 2014 second-round pick via the JaJuan Johnson trade on 6/23/11.

Boston Celtics: Receives Sacramento’s 2015 second-round pick (top-55 protected) via the Sam Cassell trade on 2/17/09.

Boston Celtics: Receives Sacramento’s 2017 second-round pick via the Marquis Daniels trade on 2/24/11.

[rondohondo]

The Celtics are owed:

Boston Celtics: Receives 2012 first-round pick (top-10 protected through 2015) from the L.A. Clippers via the Oklahoma City Thunder via the Kendrick Perkins trade on 2/24/11.

Boston Celtics: Receives Minnesota’s 2013 second-round pick (via Boston from the Delonte West trade on 7/26/10) via the Luke Harangody trade on 2/24/11.

Boston Celtics: Receives New Jersey’s 2014 second-round pick via the JaJuan Johnson trade on 6/23/11.

Boston Celtics: Receives Sacramento’s 2015 second-round pick (top-55 protected) via the Sam Cassell trade on 2/17/09.

Boston Celtics: Receives Sacramento’s 2017 second-round pick via the Marquis Daniels trade on 2/24/11.

Danny is the Man!

He has gotten us so many high second round trade chips for garbage. Could we use a couple of these high second round picks with our 1st's this year to move up or trade for a vet like Josh Smith? (of course other pieces probably have to be offered )