Doc,Ray,Rondo and KG calling out the refs after game 2

[The Rondo Show]

I think of it like this:

1) Lebron and Wade attack the rim more than just about anyone in the league, and the celtics are a jump shooting team. Against the heat, until Paul Pierce and Ray Allen start playing like its 2006, and rondo attacks the rim consistently like he did tonight, we're always gonna have a free thrown discrepancy.

Pierce, Rajon Rondo, Kevin Garnett and Brandon Bass got to the rim 21 times and took 28 free throws.

James, Wade, Mario Chalmers and Udonis Haslem got to the rim 23 times and took 45 free throws.

[LarBrd33]

As an unbiased observer, the officiating was just horrible. Lebron absorbs fouls like a sponge. Any little bump, and there's a foul. This is nothing new, though...Heat have been getting biased calls the entire post-season - Was especially apparent in the New York series, as well.

Only silver lining is that they won't get that on the road in San Antonio.

All due respect, Lakerfan... you're not an unbiased observer.  I've yet to meet a Laker fan who doesn't absolutely loath LeBron for the threat he poses to Kobe's legacy.  Granted, you hate the Celtics as well, but none of the Laker fans I've met really take the Celtics seriously as a long-term concern.  LeBron, though... they hate everything about him. 

[tgreanier]

When in doubt...blame the refs.   That was the best game we played all playoffs and we still lost.  Guess its easier to blame the refs than to accept we aren't as good as Miami

This is the kind of comment that is annoying. I can understand people saying those of us who feel the officiating is bias, possibly due to league mandate, are wrong - no problem there. Some people even make salient points of why it is an incorrect conclusion. However, it has been repeated many times already by many different people that this is not a case of "if it were not for the refs, Boston would be winning this series" it is "the refs have been helping Miami."

Game one: I still believe Boston loses even with fair officiating.

Game two: I believed Miami would win in the OT period, just for the fact the Celtics were so gassed. Officiating once again had been suspect. But when Rondo got clearly hit and it was ignored...that was not a case of a "swing" in the officiating...that was a downright choice not to call that foul.

I cannot say if that foul is called, Boston wins the game. Of course I cannot say that. That is the type of conclusion that makes the discussion silly. What I can say is that non-call (and I will refrain from mentioning others) was a 4 point swing, a HUGE swing in a playoff game, especially one in OT. Who knows, maybe they call it, maybe Rondo bricks two free throws and Miami wins anyway...but I can tell you this, I would much rather be lamenting the fact Rondo missed free throws than he never got a chance to get them on an obvious, clear foul.

Please stop assuming the "whining about the refs" is about sour grapes. It is not in my case and it is not in many of the posts I have seen. I will grant you it IS in some of the posts, however. That is just the nature of people. But if the officials were just "bad" then both teams would be getting a fairly even distribution of lousy calls/non-calls, not a consistent case of Miami getting bailed out and protected. I do not know how much worse the officials have to be to make it obvious something is rotten.

[The Rondo Show]

Whoever asked for the postgame interview

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HE8MM3Rz5qQ&feature=related

[LakersFan_33]

As an unbiased observer, the officiating was just horrible. Lebron absorbs fouls like a sponge. Any little bump, and there's a foul. This is nothing new, though...Heat have been getting biased calls the entire post-season - Was especially apparent in the New York series, as well.

Only silver lining is that they won't get that on the road in San Antonio.

All due respect, Lakerfan... you're not an unbiased observer.  I've yet to meet a Laker fan who doesn't absolutely loath LeBron for the threat he poses to Kobe's legacy.  Granted, you hate the Celtics as well, but none of the Laker fans I've met really take the Celtics seriously as a long-term concern.  LeBron, though... they hate everything about him. 

No problem - Yes, you are partially correct, but the truth is that I have disdain for both teams, so that's where I am unbiased. Lebron has no championships - Even with Kobe earning 3 of them with Shaq, it will take a while before Lebron threatens Kobe's legacy.

[ChainSmokingLikeDino]

When in doubt...blame the refs.   That was the best game we played all playoffs and we still lost.  Guess its easier to blame the refs than to accept we aren't as good as Miami

No, it is easier to blame the refs when an overtime game gets decided by bad calls. Anyone one of several bad calls goes a different way and the celtics win. It is as close to an objective observation as you can get.

Again... the Celtics have won countless games that other teams have blamed on officiating.  I'm not going to sink to that poor sport level.  What are you guys crying about?  Bron going to the free throw line and Pierce fouling out?  Yeah... we held Bron to 35% shooting.  The dude is a freight train.  Pierce is playing with a sprained MCL.  Why is it so shocking that he'd get a lot of fouls on that beast?  Some of those were blatant and obvious fouls.  Guys tied him up before he even crossed half court.  Get over it.  There are bad calls and there are good calls.  It goes both ways.  You can't accept that the Celtics stormed back 24 points and beat the Lakers in 08 (in a game were were getting away with total murder) and then cry about us getting beaten in a close game against Miami in a series we are more than likely going to lose anyway.  

Last night was the best game the Celtics have played all playoffs.  Just a total best case scenario.  The best the offense can possibly look given our current injury condition.  Miami won.  That's all.  That was likely our 1 game to steal in this series and we just didn't have enough to get it done.  Is what it is.  That was a heck of an effort by Rondo and the Celtics last night.

This idea that commenting on dubious officiating and acknowledging the faults of The Celtics performance are mutually exclusive is ridiculous. It is possible to hold the opinion that a) The Celtics let some possessions go that could have been the difference in this game and b) that there were some blatantly bad calls, or lack thereof, and an inconsistency in officiating that was detrimental to The C's chances.

There is far too much black and white, one or the other fighting around here. One camp laying all the blame on the officials and the other saying they had no influence on the outcome of the game. Clearly the answer lies somewhere in the middle and there will be no constructive conversation when the dialogue consists entirely of "the fix" and the posturing to see who can be the most "objective" in dismissing the influence of any bad whistles.

The Celtics lost this game due to timely missed shots, defensive lapses and the confluence of that with a few bad calls that really hurt any chances they may have had (as well as a discrepancy in the way the game was called for The C's and The Heat). 

[17wasEZ]

When in doubt...blame the refs.   That was the best game we played all playoffs and we still lost.  Guess its easier to blame the refs than to accept we aren't as good as Miami

No, it is easier to blame the refs when an overtime game gets decided by bad calls. Anyone one of several bad calls goes a different way and the celtics win. It is as close to an objective observation as you can get.

Again... the Celtics have won countless games that other teams have blamed on officiating.  I'm not going to sink to that poor sport level.  What are you guys crying about?  Bron going to the free throw line and Pierce fouling out?  Yeah... we held Bron to 35% shooting.  The dude is a freight train.  Pierce is playing with a sprained MCL.  Why is it so shocking that he'd get a lot of fouls on that beast?  Some of those were blatant and obvious fouls.  Guys tied him up before he even crossed half court.  Get over it.  There are bad calls and there are good calls.  It goes both ways.  You can't accept that the Celtics stormed back 24 points and beat the Lakers in 08 (in a game were were getting away with total murder) and then cry about us getting beaten in a close game against Miami in a series we are more than likely going to lose anyway.  

Last night was the best game the Celtics have played all playoffs.  Just a total best case scenario.  The best the offense can possibly look given our current injury condition.  Miami won.  That's all.  That was likely our 1 game to steal in this series and we just didn't have enough to get it done.  Is what it is.  That was a heck of an effort by Rondo and the Celtics last night.

Here is the box score from Game 4 of the 2008 NBA Finals:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore?gid=2008061213

You tell me where the discrepancy is, my man!  The stats are just about equal. Boston had one more team foul called against them.  Boston shot 4% better than the Lakers from the field.  The Lakers shot one more FT against Boston.  I believe the example you used was a straw man argument with no validity.  

Celtic fans weren't complaining nearly this much after blowing an 18 point lead to Philly on the road in Game 4.  I found this on espn.com from a post by NBA is More Rigged Than WWE:

Here are some stats I found:
FTA: Heat 47, Celtics 29 (LeBron with 24)
Shots at rim: Heat 26, Celtics 25
Fouls: Heat 18, Celtics 33
Players with 3+ Fouls: Heat 1, Celtics 5 (3 Fouled out, including leading scorer on the team)
3PA: Heat 26, Celtics 16
Rebounds: Heat 42, Celtics 42
Turnovers: Heat 8, Celtics 8
FG %: Heat: 44.6, Celtics 49.4

I'm not blaming the refs for Boston's loss, but you can't deny ( 33 fouls to 18) that they didn't have a major influence on the outcome.  Do you think the game would have been called nearly as lopsided if the Celtics were playing anybody else?

[dlpin]

Again... the Celtics have won countless games that other teams have blamed on officiating.  I'm not going to sink to that poor sport level.  What are you guys crying about?  Bron going to the free throw line and Pierce fouling out?  Yeah... we held Bron to 35% shooting.  The dude is a freight train.  Pierce is playing with a sprained MCL.  Why is it so shocking that he'd get a lot of fouls on that beast?  Some of those were blatant and obvious fouls.  Guys tied him up before he even crossed half court.  Get over it.  There are bad calls and there are good calls.  It goes both ways.  You can't accept that the Celtics stormed back 24 points and beat the Lakers in 08 (in a game were were getting away with total murder) and then cry about us getting beaten in a close game against Miami in a series we are more than likely going to lose anyway.  

Last night was the best game the Celtics have played all playoffs.  Just a total best case scenario.  The best the offense can possibly look given our current injury condition.  Miami won.  That's all.  That was likely our 1 game to steal in this series and we just didn't have enough to get it done.  Is what it is.  That was a heck of an effort by Rondo and the Celtics last night.

What does the fact that officiating was bad in other games in favor of the celtics have to do with last night's game? We got away with "total murder" in 2008, therefore a bad call in a tied overtime game didn't change the outcome at all?

[tgreanier]

Again... the Celtics have won countless games that other teams have blamed on officiating.  I'm not going to sink to that poor sport level.  What are you guys crying about?  Bron going to the free throw line and Pierce fouling out?  Yeah... we held Bron to 35% shooting.  The dude is a freight train.  Pierce is playing with a sprained MCL.  Why is it so shocking that he'd get a lot of fouls on that beast?  Some of those were blatant and obvious fouls.  Guys tied him up before he even crossed half court.  Get over it.  There are bad calls and there are good calls.  It goes both ways.  You can't accept that the Celtics stormed back 24 points and beat the Lakers in 08 (in a game were were getting away with total murder) and then cry about us getting beaten in a close game against Miami in a series we are more than likely going to lose anyway.  

Last night was the best game the Celtics have played all playoffs.  Just a total best case scenario.  The best the offense can possibly look given our current injury condition.  Miami won.  That's all.  That was likely our 1 game to steal in this series and we just didn't have enough to get it done.  Is what it is.  That was a heck of an effort by Rondo and the Celtics last night.

What does the fact that officiating was bad in other games in favor of the celtics have to do with last night's game? We got away with "total murder" in 2008, therefore a bad call in a tied overtime game didn't change the outcome at all?

It is a complex reaction I think. The human mind desperately wants to find order and reason - it is why we see faces in things like toast. So, anyone with a strong will to believe the NBA is not messed up is going to find reasons to back up that claim. Having said that, anyone who is convinced the NBA is corrupt is going to do the opposite. Confirmation bias is a huge game changer (no pun intended).

I am very averse to conspiracy theories. I find them to be almost always silly at best, downright idiotic at worst. I am definitely not a conspiracy theorist. I literally just got done with a conversation with someone about the moon landing being a hoax and almost choked on my disbelief that people still believe such a silly idea (that we didnt land, not that we did).

I can come to no other conclusion that the NBA is rigged in some sense of the word. This is not a conclusion based on this series alone - it has been something I have been fighting with since 2007. Too many times something just seems rotten - and yes, sometimes in favor of the Celtics. WHO gets the calls is not the point - it is the point that people are noticing what *appears* to be a corrupt process.

The bottom line for me is this: the fact that the Heat winning last night is suspect is just as bad as the Celtics coming back from 24 down against the Lakers being suspect. The "suspect" part is what is the problem. If there is no conspiracy, ok then..that does not change the fact there is a huge problem with this league.

[angryguy77]

When in doubt...blame the refs.   That was the best game we played all playoffs and we still lost.  Guess its easier to blame the refs than to accept we aren't as good as Miami

No, it is easier to blame the refs when an overtime game gets decided by bad calls. Anyone one of several bad calls goes a different way and the celtics win. It is as close to an objective observation as you can get.

Again... the Celtics have won countless games that other teams have blamed on officiating.  I'm not going to sink to that poor sport level.  What are you guys crying about?  Bron going to the free throw line and Pierce fouling out?  Yeah... we held Bron to 35% shooting.  The dude is a freight train.  Pierce is playing with a sprained MCL.  Why is it so shocking that he'd get a lot of fouls on that beast?  Some of those were blatant and obvious fouls.  Guys tied him up before he even crossed half court.  Get over it.  There are bad calls and there are good calls.  It goes both ways.  You can't accept that the Celtics stormed back 24 points and beat the Lakers in 08 (in a game were were getting away with total murder) and then cry about us getting beaten in a close game against Miami in a series we are more than likely going to lose anyway.  

Last night was the best game the Celtics have played all playoffs.  Just a total best case scenario.  The best the offense can possibly look given our current injury condition.  Miami won.  That's all.  That was likely our 1 game to steal in this series and we just didn't have enough to get it done.  Is what it is.  That was a heck of an effort by Rondo and the Celtics last night.

Ok, well seeing that we are assured a series win due to officiating sometime in the future, I won't let a lopsided called game get to me. Do you really think we should look back 4 YEARS and say "oh well, we had that one game go our way so we deserved last night". This makes no sense, and as someone already mentioned, your premise is based on hollow facts.
Did you even watch the game? There were a lot of fouls that were called on the "freight train" that were touchy at best.

I can't fathom you actually believing your own argument.

[dlpin]

If you are a gambling person, the best single piece of information on deciding on who to bet in a game is the past record of the refereeing crews. That by itself shows a significant problem with the NBA.

[youcanthandlethetruth113]

I think this thread needs to be relabeled as a self-help group. Seriously. I need some help I'm so sick from last night's game.

The non-call on Wade slapping Rondo in the face with the game TIED IN OT which lead to a 5-on-4 and a dunk for Haslem.

The call Wade got after kicking KG.

The 6th foul on Pierce after he went straight up (though I wonder why he didn't just take the charge like usual).

The 24 free-throws for Lebron.

Sick. To. My. Stomach.

[2short]

As an unbiased observer, the officiating was just horrible. Lebron absorbs fouls like a sponge. Any little bump, and there's a foul. This is nothing new, though...Heat have been getting biased calls the entire post-season - Was especially apparent in the New York series, as well.

Only silver lining is that they won't get that on the road in San Antonio.

but what if they do?

[satch]

What interesting is the media. They will say something along the lines......."bad calls or bad officiating but this did not cost the Celtics the game." That's like saying Jack the Ripper is causing street crime but we are to leave Jack the Ripper in charge of street crime.

[j804]

As an unbiased observer, the officiating was just horrible. Lebron absorbs fouls like a sponge. Any little bump, and there's a foul. This is nothing new, though...Heat have been getting biased calls the entire post-season - Was especially apparent in the New York series, as well.

Only silver lining is that they won't get that on the road in San Antonio.

but what if they do?

Well then that will just entirely prove Stern and company is handing the almighty king LBJ a ring on a gold platter.