Should On-Court/Field/Ice Incidences Allow for Criminal Charges? When? How?

[indeedproceed]

I guess I'm more passionate about this because I come from a contact sports (football, rugby) backround, but I just see it as a 'what happens in the arena stays in the arena' kind of thing. Agree on the using bats/sticks outside of play during a contest to attack someone, but aside from that I don't know really what could possibly constitute criminal charges.

I still don't think Todd Bertuzzi should've face criminal charges, but I do think he deserved a lifetime ban from the NHL and whatever international governing body there is out there.

I mean, I've been kicked in the head, stomped on, punched, blindsided away from the ball, whatever. Its part of the game, there are scumbags out there who are sometimes really good at it. If you don't want the contact, don't play the game, or play it with others who agree, so you can all agree to be gentlemen to each other. 

[indeedproceed]

I guess I'm more passionate about this because I come from a contact sports (football, rugby) backround, but I just see it as a 'what happens in the arena stays in the arena' kind of thing. Agree on the using bats/sticks outside of play during a contest to attack someone, but aside from that I don't know really what could possibly constitute criminal charges.

I still don't think Todd Bertuzzi should've face criminal charges, but I do think he deserved a lifetime ban from the NHL and whatever international governing body there is out there.

I mean, I've been kicked in the head, stomped on, punched, blindsided away from the ball, whatever. Its part of the game, there are scumbags out there who are sometimes really good at it. If you don't want the contact, don't play the game, or play it with others who agree, so you can all agree to be gentlemen to each other. 

Also, to amend that, I'm not saying guys who hate that stuff and don't want any part of it aren't as 'tough' as other players who put up with it or participate in it. I've never been the type of guy who goes that extra mile with dirty plays (like, for instance, grabbing and twisting a fat roll on an opposing lineman in football, or giving a quiet leisurely rabbit-punch in the bottom of a ruck when you know you won't get caught) to gain whatever edge those players think it gives them.

But, the truth I've come to in my time with sports is that the best players are the guys who do anything to win, and a lot of the guys who do anything to win don't care how they get there. If you want a truly competitive game, you're gonna have people who step out of line.

[CelticG1]

I think some of you guys are understating Arrests elbow on Harden. Harden was in a completely defenseless position, it was pretty much a deadball play and Artest intentionally hit him with a vicious elbow.

Harden is extremely lucky he didn't get Beverly hurt. If you think that is a normal end result to an elbow like that I think you are mistaken.

I don't know about criminal charges in general if they should be instituted but don't brush that hit aside like it wasn't that big a deal because it was.

[CoachBo]

Only in the case of an official.

Marc Davis is a crime against basketball.

 

[LooseCannon]

I am not in favor of criminal charges unless the sport's sanctions are not enough, such as if an ejected player returns to the court to attack someone.  Calling for criminal charges is just more wussification of sports and a symptom of our increasingly over-litigious society.

[indeedproceed]

I think some of you guys are understating Arrests elbow on Harden. Harden was in a completely defenseless position, it was pretty much a deadball play and Artest intentionally hit him with a vicious elbow.

Harden is extremely lucky he didn't get Beverly hurt. If you think that is a normal end result to an elbow like that I think you are mistaken.

I don't know about criminal charges in general if they should be instituted but don't brush that hit aside like it wasn't that big a deal because it was.

Was it more dangerous than an elbow pointed to the windpipe?

[rutzan]

they have not done enough...you want proof...how could the Pittman incident happen so close in time to the Metta World War incident...there is your proof...i mean seriously...this next message better be loud and clear...

more to the point...

if i thought that the nba is in capable hands...it would be a different matter...

stern and his cronies have devolved into a laughingstock...

do you remember when everyone was championing stern as the best commissioner in pro sports...

he is a caricature of himself now...

you would find it very difficult to find many people supporting stern with regards to any area of the nba right now...

let's look at the lockout...maybe the owners are happy...do you think the players and fans were happy...don't think so...

then...you have the whole officiating and tim donaghy issue...
whether you believe in that or not...that is a another ball of wax...where there is smoke there is fire...

whether you want to co-mingle this or not...stern and his cronies get an "F" in my book right now...

so if we're trusting stern and his cronies to oversee this correctly and properly...and...get this right...then...people are sadly mistaken...

[Roy H.]

In very limited circumstances.  If somebody went Last Boyscout, obviously that's a criminal charge.  If somebody charged the mound and repeatedly hit another player in the head with a bat, I'd charge that.

Basically, it would have to be wanton disregard for the safety of others.

[Fafnir]

Basically, it would have to be wanton disregard for the safety of others.

And also outside the scope of the game itself in my view. Elbows being thrown to clear space is different than throwing an elbow in a fight, even if the damage is the same in my view.

No matter how nasty a foul like Haslem's is still within the context of the game of basketball. Punches thrown or using an implement as a weapon would open things up.

[indeedproceed]

they have not done enough...you want proof...how could the Pittman incident happen so close in time to the Metta World War incident...there is your proof...i mean seriously...this next message better be loud and clear...

more to the point...

if i thought that the nba is in capable hands...it would be a different matter...

stern and his cronies have devolved into a laughingstock...

do you remember when everyone was championing stern as the best commissioner in pro sports...

he is a caricature of himself now...

you would find it very difficult to find many people supporting stern with regards to any area of the nba right now...

let's look at the lockout...maybe the owners are happy...do you think the players and fans were happy...don't think so...

then...you have the whole officiating and tim donaghy issue...
whether you believe in that or not...that is a another ball of wax...where there is smoke there is fire...

whether you want to co-mingle this or not...stern and his cronies get an "F" in my book right now...

so if we're trusting stern and his cronies to oversee this correctly and properly...and...get this right...then...people are sadly mistaken...

Stern has dropped the ball in a few key areas:

1) He failed to make the players feel like partners with a vested interest in a business venture and made them just employees.

2) With the onset of the popularity of blogs, twitter, 24 hr NBA news coverage, etc, coupled with the Tim Donaghy revelations, he faced a huge trust issue with an expanding fan base. A lot of people, nearly every writer out there who doesn't just toe the company line will tell you, the answer was transparency. The league needed to become transparent when it came to officiating. They never did, and I don't think the fans have quite gotten over that trust gap, which has led to some disenfranchisement.

But I don't think failing to keep his players safe is one of his failings, unless you count allowing a 66 game condensced season as failing to keep his players safe.

WHich actually I guess maybe we should. WOuld Rose/Howard have gone down without the condensed season? Amare? Lin? Etc?

[rutzan]

a few key areas...

1) alienating you fan base, players, owners
2) violating the integrity and trust of the game with the offciating
3) safety of the players

what else is left...that is the whole game of basketball...

bottomline...

the proximity in time with the Metta World War incident and the Pittman/Haslem incidents is not acceptable...

no excuses...no stories...no rationales...

enough is enough...time to draw the line...

[indeedproceed]

a few key areas...

1) alienating you fan base, players, owners
2) violating the integrity and trust of the game with the offciating
3) safety of the players

what else is left...that is the whole game of basketball...

bottomline...

the proximity in time with the Metta World War incident and the Pittman/Haslem incidents is not acceptable...

no excuses...no stories...no rationales...

enough is enough...time to draw the line...

Yeah, thats all great..but this brings it back to the initial debate: should Artest and Pittman face criminal charges?

Saying enough is enough and that Stern should have a heavy hand is a lot different than saying Dexter Pittman should face assault and battery charges.

[rutzan]

how about this...go ask a cop what he would do if that happened in the real world...that is your answer...no matter how you want to spin it...

[Fafnir]

how about this...go ask a cop what he would do if that happened in the real world...that is your answer...no matter how you want to spin it...

A difference of opinion isn't spin, and the law isn't as clear as you think.

When you play sports you assume inherent risks by doing so, that is a big factor in potential criminal and civil liability.

[indeedproceed]

how about this...go ask a cop what he would do if that happened in the real world...that is your answer...no matter how you want to spin it...

I guess that's the line in the sand, because if you ask a cop what he would do if a guy performed a chop block on another guy in teh middle of the street, it'd be an arrest as well.

Sports are different. Always have been, and rightly so.