Rondo for Pau Gasol trade revisited

[Celtics18]

My opinion:  Point guards don't win titles.  Big men do.

And yet you want to sign Deron Williams to a max contact.

That's an idea.  I like Deron over Rondo, because Deron does everything Rondo does... but is bigger and a far better shooter/scorer.  Deron is just a better player.  Period.  Obviously wouldn't be the end-all move.  You don't simply win a title with Deron Williams by himself and you sure as heck don't simply win a title with Rondo by himself.   But you're leaving out the key part of my Deron Williams pipe dream... if you signed him to the Celtics you'd then be able to move Rondo to the highest bidder.  Ultimate fantasy is landing Dwight HOward for Rondo, both our first rounders + whatever else Orlando wants...

Also the only reason I mention Deron is because he's BY FAR the best unrestricted free agent this offseason and we happen to have cap space.  If our MVP Kevin Garnett retires... I'm not sure how else we could make an immediate impact this offseason.  

Sure Deron Williams does everything Rondo does, but Rondo does quite a bit of it better like passing, rebounding and playing defense.  Williams shoots better from the perimeter and scores more points.

I don't know if you find playing D, rebounding, and passing to be irrelevant, and shooting the basketball to be the only skill that has any significance, but it sure seems that way.

No.  I think in the right system and teammates, Deron WIlliams has the capacity to be an excellent rebounder and defender.  He's got size on the majority of point guards in the league.  I think all-around he's an upgrade over Rondo.  Deron is Probably the 2nd best point guard in the league behind Chris Paul.  Him or Rose, I guess.  In the past some have argued (somewhat convincingly) that Williams was better than Chris Paul.  He's top 3 for sure.  Rondo's great in his own right, but not on the level of those guys.  People take that as me hating Rondo.  Not true.  I love Rondo.  I love Paul Pierce too (named my cat after him), but that's not going to stop me from admitting he's nowhere near LeBron's level.  I love Ray, but that's not going to stop me from admitting he's not on Kobe's level.  I loved Big Al when he played here too, but it didn't stop me from admitting he was nowhere near Kevin Garnett's level.  It is what it is.   

The key words in your post are "in the past."  Many are arguing right now that Rondo is a top two or three point guard, and I'm not just talking about us homers here on CelticsBlog.

[BballTim]

meh.  Fair to say that even with BballTim's opinions... we can settle on the fact that we simply don't know how this team would play with Pau Gasol.  Thread is based on a shaky premise.  We have a 22-13 record when our 3rd best player (Rondo) doesn't play.  Fair to say that if we added arguably the most talented big man in the game (Pau Gasol) to that 22-13 team... we'd improve on that 22-13 record.    

  I think how the team fares in the playoffs is somewhat more important than our regular season record with and without individual players. In the playoffs, over the last 4 years, we're 31-22 with an average margin of +2 ppg. PP has been out of the game for 528 minutes in those games, we score even with our opponents when he's out. When KG's been out of the game we've been outscored by about 2 points per 48 minutes. When Rondo's out of the game we've been outscored by just over 9 points a game.

  Doing out the math on Rondo, we're roughly 14 points per game worse in the playoffs when he's out of the game. To put it another way, if Gasol was here instead of Rondo his positive impact on the games when he played would have to be twice as much as KG's in order to break even on the deal.

Brotha you're reachin.  We've never lost a playoff game with Rondo as a DNP.  

I'm done arguing with you.  You bring up quirky stats as some means of proving ... something.  Actually... not even sure what you're proving?  

  You might feel that they're quirky stats but at least I have stats. You seem to make claims based on whether they bolster your argument without really knowing whether they're true or not. You keep claiming that Rondo's our third most valuable player. If so, you should easily be able to explain why we do so much worse in the playofs with Rondo out (-9 points per 48) than we do with PP out (we seem to play even up without him).

  Also consider that they're both on the bench at the same time some of the time, so that difference would be that we do ok with PP out and Rondo playing but we get scorched when PP is in and Rondo's out (aka when we do "just fine" because PP likes it when the offense runs through him). I'm just curious why you think we do ok when the valuable player is out of the game but get scorched when less valuable players are on the bench.

  I'm also curious about, since you keep pointing out that winning without Rondo means he's not that key, how you reconcile that we do equally well without KG (who you consider to be hands down the most valuable player). Because I would think that a stat that's either important or meaningless depending on who you apply it to falls well into the "quirky" category"

[BballTim]

My opinion:  Point guards don't win titles.  Big men do.

And yet you want to sign Deron Williams to a max contact.

That's an idea.  I like Deron over Rondo, because Deron does everything Rondo does... but is bigger and a far better shooter/scorer.  Deron is just a better player.  Period.  Obviously wouldn't be the end-all move.  You don't simply win a title with Deron Williams by himself and you sure as heck don't simply win a title with Rondo by himself.   But you're leaving out the key part of my Deron Williams pipe dream... if you signed him to the Celtics you'd then be able to move Rondo to the highest bidder.  Ultimate fantasy is landing Dwight HOward for Rondo, both our first rounders + whatever else Orlando wants...

Also the only reason I mention Deron is because he's BY FAR the best unrestricted free agent this offseason and we happen to have cap space.  If our MVP Kevin Garnett retires... I'm not sure how else we could make an immediate impact this offseason.  

Sure Deron Williams does everything Rondo does, but Rondo does quite a bit of it better like passing, rebounding and playing defense.  Williams shoots better from the perimeter and scores more points.

I don't know if you find playing D, rebounding, and passing to be irrelevant, and shooting the basketball to be the only skill that has any significance, but it sure seems that way.

No.  I think in the right system and teammates, Deron WIlliams has the capacity to be an excellent rebounder and defender.  He's got size on the majority of point guards in the league.

  He's half way through his career and he's played with a lot of different players. If he has the capacity to be an excellent rebounder and defender and we haven't seen it yet then you have to question whether the reason might involve a lack of interest or effort.

[LarBrd33]

meh.  Fair to say that even with BballTim's opinions... we can settle on the fact that we simply don't know how this team would play with Pau Gasol.  Thread is based on a shaky premise.  We have a 22-13 record when our 3rd best player (Rondo) doesn't play.  Fair to say that if we added arguably the most talented big man in the game (Pau Gasol) to that 22-13 team... we'd improve on that 22-13 record.   

  I think how the team fares in the playoffs is somewhat more important than our regular season record with and without individual players. In the playoffs, over the last 4 years, we're 31-22 with an average margin of +2 ppg. PP has been out of the game for 528 minutes in those games, we score even with our opponents when he's out. When KG's been out of the game we've been outscored by about 2 points per 48 minutes. When Rondo's out of the game we've been outscored by just over 9 points a game.

  Doing out the math on Rondo, we're roughly 14 points per game worse in the playoffs when he's out of the game. To put it another way, if Gasol was here instead of Rondo his positive impact on the games when he played would have to be twice as much as KG's in order to break even on the deal.

Brotha you're reachin.  We've never lost a playoff game with Rondo as a DNP. 

I'm done arguing with you.  You bring up quirky stats as some means of proving ... something.  Actually... not even sure what you're proving? 

  You might feel that they're quirky stats but at least I have stats. You seem to make claims based on whether they bolster your argument without really knowing whether they're true or not. You keep claiming that Rondo's our third most valuable player. If so, you should easily be able to explain why we do so much worse in the playofs with Rondo out (-9 points per 48) than we do with PP out (we seem to play even up without him).

  Also consider that they're both on the bench at the same time some of the time, so that difference would be that we do ok with PP out and Rondo playing but we get scorched when PP is in and Rondo's out (aka when we do "just fine" because PP likes it when the offense runs through him). I'm just curious why you think we do ok when the valuable player is out of the game but get scorched when less valuable players are on the bench.

  I'm also curious about, since you keep pointing out that winning without Rondo means he's not that key, how you reconcile that we do equally well without KG (who you consider to be hands down the most valuable player). Because I would think that a stat that's either important or meaningless depending on who you apply it to falls well into the "quirky" category"

We're talking about two different things.  You're using some bogus +/- nonsense to back your stance.  I'm talking about games where Rondo flat out didn't play.  We win 63% of them.  When Pierce misses games, we have a losing record.  Hence why I say you're using "quirky" stats.  I'm not interested in +/- when so much of it factors on the system the team is running and who is on the court when Rondo is on the bench.  Again... we're 22-13 when Rondo flat out doesn't play.  18-10 over the past two years.  Undefeated in the playoffs.

Tim.  I'm glad you love ROndo.  Good for you.  Stop bothering me in every thread I post on to declare your love for Rondo.  Lol.  I don't care.  I get it.  *clap* *clap*. I love Rondo too.  I'm glad you think Rondo is the team's best player.  Whatever works for you, man.   As I see it, this team isn't a title contender without Kevin Garnett.  Last time I tried to argue this point it was with a bunch of Celtics fans (perhaps you were one of them) in 2009 who were trying to tell me that Glen Davis was an adequate replacement for KG.  They were wrong.  We overachieved against a mediocre Chicago team and ultimately lost to Orlando the next round.  I felt we kinda settled that back in 2010.  In 09 without KG this team BARELY beat Chicago.  The next year, KG comes back and in our first two games against Chicago we blew them out by 28 points and 26 points.  Oh what a difference KG makes.

This isn't about Kevin Garnett.  The premise of this thread is that we'd be significantly worse with Pau Gasol than with Rondo.  To back up this premise, you're pointing out that the Celtics play worse when Rondo is on the bench.  Gee... Ya think???  No kidding.  Team plays better with our point guard running the show than when our bench players are in.  REally?  Wow.  Fascinating.  Who woulda thunk.  Sarcasm aside... what does this have to do with hypothetically replacing Rondo with a dominant big man, surrounding our twin towers with shooters and re-imagining our offense around them?  Come on, Tim.  You're intentionally missing the point and I'm getting bored. 

[mctyson]

The premise of this thread is that we'd be significantly worse with Pau Gasol than with Rondo.

You can't look at this in a vacuum of 2012.  Trading our best young player, who is also a veteran and a proven NBA elite start, for an aging big man who is a great player but clearly past his peak, is a horrible strategy.

Danny would have been murdered for that trade.  I can only imagine what LA would be like with Rondo, Kobe, and Bynum.  That is a scary team.  You are correct that KG is the "championship link" for us, but that doesn't mean we can just trade anyone for anyone around him and win.  Exchanging Rondo for Gasol makes our team older, slower, worse defensively, and not nearly as exciting.  Plus we'd be more expensive in the near future as Gasol is not an expiring contract.

This trade never was going to happen.

[LarBrd33]

The premise of this thread is that we'd be significantly worse with Pau Gasol than with Rondo.

You can't look at this in a vacuum of 2012.  Trading our best young player, who is also a veteran and a proven NBA elite start, for an aging big man who is a great player but clearly past his peak, is a horrible strategy.

Danny would have been murdered for that trade.  I can only imagine what LA would be like with Rondo, Kobe, and Bynum.  That is a scary team.  You are correct that KG is the "championship link" for us, but that doesn't mean we can just trade anyone for anyone around him and win.  Exchanging Rondo for Gasol makes our team older, slower, worse defensively, and not nearly as exciting.  Plus we'd be more expensive in the near future as Gasol is not an expiring contract.

This trade never was going to happen.

As others have pointed out... you can't look at in a "giving up a young player for an old player" vacuum either.  Gasol is about the same age as KG when we brought him on board.  No telling what the future would hold and how bringing in Gasol would influence later moves.  It wouldn't have hurt our cap flexibility all that much.  Perhaps finding a replacement guard is easier than finding a dominant big man.  

Again... the basic premise of this thread is that we'd be significantly worse right now with Gasol than we are with Rondo.  I disagree.  Too many factors to consider.  I already admitted I wouldn't do the trade, but I can see the reasoning behind it.  I think it probably would have made us title favorites.  Lakers turned down the trade offer, though... so whatever.  

[GreenFaith1819]

As one of those who initially wanted this trade to go through (Pau for Rondo), I'll say I was wrong.

I don't know for sure how such a trade would've affected us short or long term, but I'm glad we stuck with Rondo.

Boy am I.

[OsirusCeltics]

My opinion:  Point guards don't win titles.  Big men do.

And yet you want to sign Deron Williams to a max contact.

That's an idea.  I like Deron over Rondo, because Deron does everything Rondo does... but is bigger and a far better shooter/scorer.  Deron is just a better player.  Period.  Obviously wouldn't be the end-all move.  You don't simply win a title with Deron Williams by himself and you sure as heck don't simply win a title with Rondo by himself.   But you're leaving out the key part of my Deron Williams pipe dream... if you signed him to the Celtics you'd then be able to move Rondo to the highest bidder.  Ultimate fantasy is landing Dwight HOward for Rondo, both our first rounders + whatever else Orlando wants...

Also the only reason I mention Deron is because he's BY FAR the best unrestricted free agent this offseason and we happen to have cap space.  If our MVP Kevin Garnett retires... I'm not sure how else we could make an immediate impact this offseason.  

Sure Deron Williams does everything Rondo does, but Rondo does quite a bit of it better like passing, rebounding and playing defense.  Williams shoots better from the perimeter and scores more points.

I don't know if you find playing D, rebounding, and passing to be irrelevant, and shooting the basketball to be the only skill that has any significance, but it sure seems that way.

I disagree that Rondo is a better passer than Williams
If Deron has 3 hall of famers on his team, or even more capable players than his Nets teammates, his assists would go up too. Rondo's passes are just more flashier

[OsirusCeltics]

The premise of this thread is that we'd be significantly worse with Pau Gasol than with Rondo.

You can't look at this in a vacuum of 2012.  Trading our best young player, who is also a veteran and a proven NBA elite start, for an aging big man who is a great player but clearly past his peak, is a horrible strategy.

Danny would have been murdered for that trade.  I can only imagine what LA would be like with Rondo, Kobe, and Bynum.  That is a scary team.  You are correct that KG is the "championship link" for us, but that doesn't mean we can just trade anyone for anyone around him and win.  Exchanging Rondo for Gasol makes our team older, slower, worse defensively, and not nearly as exciting.  Plus we'd be more expensive in the near future as Gasol is not an expiring contract.

This trade never was going to happen.

As others have pointed out... you can't look at in a "giving up a young player for an old player" vacuum either.  Gasol is about the same age as KG when we brought him on board.  No telling what the future would hold and how bringing in Gasol would influence later moves.  It wouldn't have hurt our cap flexibility all that much.  Perhaps finding a replacement guard is easier than finding a dominant big man.  

Again... the basic premise of this thread is that we'd be significantly worse right now with Gasol than we are with Rondo.  I disagree.  Too many factors to consider.  I already admitted I wouldn't do the trade, but I can see the reasoning behind it.  I think it probably would have made us title favorites.  Lakers turned down the trade offer, though... so whatever.  

TP I totally agree with that
Pierce and KG are the Celtics most important players. They are not interchangable. With Rondo out some games, the Celtics had a decent record

And lets not put the wool over our eyes. Rondo is a horrible half-court player. He can't shoot jumpshots or freethrows. So when the ball slows down (mostly in teh 4th quarter), opposing teams can double off of him and double either Pierce or Garnett. And when that happens, Rondo's passing skills become nullified, because a team would steal his pass which would cause a turnover. And his lack of jumpshooting prevents him from being a closer for this team


That reasoning is why IMO Rondo stagnates the offense. He brings the ball up and then just stands on the top of the key directing traffic for like 20 seconds on the shot clock hoping to get Ray on the curl, Pierce on the wing, or KG in the post. And if he doesn't find anyone, he just jacks up a 3 point shot. It makes the Celtics too predictable. With Rondo out and either Pierce or Bradley running the offense, the Celtics moved the ball around more and the offense was more potent

With Gasol on this team, the passing would be maximized and the offense would flow 10 times better. Gasol and KG are maybe the best in the paint passers in the game. That tandem would just be awesome. The team would have better rebounding, post defense, post offense. Opposing won't have the option of doubling off of Gasol because he would burn them with his offensive skills

Celtics just need to add more shooters to compliment their inside presence, if they were to get Gasol

[CoachBo]

meh.  Fair to say that even with BballTim's opinions... we can settle on the fact that we simply don't know how this team would play with Pau Gasol.  Thread is based on a shaky premise.  We have a 22-13 record when our 3rd best player (Rondo) doesn't play.  Fair to say that if we added arguably the most talented big man in the game (Pau Gasol) to that 22-13 team... we'd improve on that 22-13 record.    

  I think how the team fares in the playoffs is somewhat more important than our regular season record with and without individual players. In the playoffs, over the last 4 years, we're 31-22 with an average margin of +2 ppg. PP has been out of the game for 528 minutes in those games, we score even with our opponents when he's out. When KG's been out of the game we've been outscored by about 2 points per 48 minutes. When Rondo's out of the game we've been outscored by just over 9 points a game.

  Doing out the math on Rondo, we're roughly 14 points per game worse in the playoffs when he's out of the game. To put it another way, if Gasol was here instead of Rondo his positive impact on the games when he played would have to be twice as much as KG's in order to break even on the deal.

Brotha you're reachin.  We've never lost a playoff game with Rondo as a DNP.  

I'm done arguing with you.  You bring up quirky stats as some means of proving ... something.  Actually... not even sure what you're proving?  

  You might feel that they're quirky stats but at least I have stats. You seem to make claims based on whether they bolster your argument without really knowing whether they're true or not. You keep claiming that Rondo's our third most valuable player. If so, you should easily be able to explain why we do so much worse in the playofs with Rondo out (-9 points per 48) than we do with PP out (we seem to play even up without him).

  Also consider that they're both on the bench at the same time some of the time, so that difference would be that we do ok with PP out and Rondo playing but we get scorched when PP is in and Rondo's out (aka when we do "just fine" because PP likes it when the offense runs through him). I'm just curious why you think we do ok when the valuable player is out of the game but get scorched when less valuable players are on the bench.

  I'm also curious about, since you keep pointing out that winning without Rondo means he's not that key, how you reconcile that we do equally well without KG (who you consider to be hands down the most valuable player). Because I would think that a stat that's either important or meaningless depending on who you apply it to falls well into the "quirky" category"

We're talking about two different things.  You're using some bogus +/- nonsense to back your stance.  I'm talking about games where Rondo flat out didn't play.  We win 63% of them.  When Pierce misses games, we have a losing record.  Hence why I say you're using "quirky" stats.  I'm not interested in +/- when so much of it factors on the system the team is running and who is on the court when Rondo is on the bench.  Again... we're 22-13 when Rondo flat out doesn't play.  18-10 over the past two years.  Undefeated in the playoffs.

Tim.  I'm glad you love ROndo.  Good for you.  Stop bothering me in every thread I post on to declare your love for Rondo.  Lol.  I don't care.  I get it.  *clap* *clap*. I love Rondo too.  I'm glad you think Rondo is the team's best player.  Whatever works for you, man.   As I see it, this team isn't a title contender without Kevin Garnett.  Last time I tried to argue this point it was with a bunch of Celtics fans (perhaps you were one of them) in 2009 who were trying to tell me that Glen Davis was an adequate replacement for KG.  They were wrong.  We overachieved against a mediocre Chicago team and ultimately lost to Orlando the next round.  I felt we kinda settled that back in 2010.  In 09 without KG this team BARELY beat Chicago.  The next year, KG comes back and in our first two games against Chicago we blew them out by 28 points and 26 points.  Oh what a difference KG makes.

This isn't about Kevin Garnett.  The premise of this thread is that we'd be significantly worse with Pau Gasol than with Rondo.  To back up this premise, you're pointing out that the Celtics play worse when Rondo is on the bench.  Gee... Ya think???  No kidding.  Team plays better with our point guard running the show than when our bench players are in.  REally?  Wow.  Fascinating.  Who woulda thunk.  Sarcasm aside... what does this have to do with hypothetically replacing Rondo with a dominant big man, surrounding our twin towers with shooters and re-imagining our offense around them?  Come on, Tim.  You're intentionally missing the point and I'm getting bored.  

TP to you.

By now, the unrequited love for a wildy inconsistent point guard has been pretty firmly established on this board, so it's a moot point.

When Rondo plays hard and is moving the ball, he's vitally important to this club. When he's taking sequences off defensively and walking the ball up the floor continually, he's not. You cannot accurately measure effort and game intelligence with statistics, so sabremetrics bores me to tears. They'll say anything at all that you want them to say, they're all skewed and they're all wildly unnecessary. Either you know what you're watching, or you don't.

Ask yourself why we were better offensively in the fourth quarter Thursday night with Dooling running the point.

I was a big advocate of this trade, but it's pretty clear by now that Rondo's going nowhere. There's not a shred of this blog's unrequited love for him among the league's general managers, and I can't blame them. They're not going to pay superstar prices for a good player whose inconsistency is keeping him from superstar status.

And, I really don't think you get a line on this deal until you tell me who replaces Rondo in the Celtics' lineup. Gasol's got a lot left in the tank, and I continue to think he's good return for Rondo.

The problem is the Lakers don't think so, they're not going to think so, and I don't blame them. They'd love the active Rondo. They don't need the passive Rondo.

Kinda like us.

[GreenFaith1819]

My opinion:  Point guards don't win titles.  Big men do.

And yet you want to sign Deron Williams to a max contact.

That's an idea.  I like Deron over Rondo, because Deron does everything Rondo does... but is bigger and a far better shooter/scorer.  Deron is just a better player.  Period.  Obviously wouldn't be the end-all move.  You don't simply win a title with Deron Williams by himself and you sure as heck don't simply win a title with Rondo by himself.   But you're leaving out the key part of my Deron Williams pipe dream... if you signed him to the Celtics you'd then be able to move Rondo to the highest bidder.  Ultimate fantasy is landing Dwight HOward for Rondo, both our first rounders + whatever else Orlando wants...

Also the only reason I mention Deron is because he's BY FAR the best unrestricted free agent this offseason and we happen to have cap space.  If our MVP Kevin Garnett retires... I'm not sure how else we could make an immediate impact this offseason.  

Sure Deron Williams does everything Rondo does, but Rondo does quite a bit of it better like passing, rebounding and playing defense.  Williams shoots better from the perimeter and scores more points.

I don't know if you find playing D, rebounding, and passing to be irrelevant, and shooting the basketball to be the only skill that has any significance, but it sure seems that way.

I disagree that Rondo is a better passer than Williams
If Deron has 3 hall of famers on his team, or even more capable players than his Nets teammates, his assists would go up too. Rondo's passes are just more flashier

But how does that (3 HOFers) explain the various lineup shifts that Rondo has had to deal with since the beginning of March?

I mean - Rondo didn't even have Ray for most of April...he even lacked Paul and KG for a few games, if I'm not mistaken?

Without going into too much detail, I know for a fact that he's had any combination of AB, Paul, KG, Hollins, Stiemer, Pietrus, Bass, JJ, E'Twuan starting since March...even ALL SEASON....we've had SO MANY different patchwork lineups that Rondo has had to deal with.

And he's dealt with it WELL, to say the least. The good times have rolled to the tune of what 24 straight 10+ assists games?

No matter what our lineup has looked like, Rajon Rondo has been steady. He's been our constant. He's dealt with those lineups professionally, for the most part, and adjusted to it.

Like Magic Johnson stated - Rajon Rondo has been the best PG in the NBA this season.

Magic knows his stuff.

Rajon Rondo IS a better distributor than Deron Williams...and is quickly becoming a better overall player.

I heard one of the ESPN analysts state last week that Rajon has been practically bumping shoulders with CP3. That is good company.

[CoachBo]

The reason Rondo's been good this year is because he's played hard most of the year.

And then there was Thursday night.

If Rondo would ever bring Garnett's effort every night, he would deserve the praise that's so lavishly feasted upon him. If he'd ever decide to attack every possession with the basketball and stay in front of his man on every defensive possession, he might be as great as some of you insist he is.

But until I see both of the above, I'm not buying it. We were better in the fourth quarter Thursday night with Dooling keeping the ball moving, and that's absolutely inexcusable.

[GreenFaith1819]

The reason Rondo's been good this year is because he's played hard most of the year.

And then there was Thursday night.

If Rondo would ever bring Garnett's effort every night, he would deserve the praise that's so lavishly feasted upon him. If he'd ever decide to attack every possession with the basketball and stay in front of his man on every defensive possession, he might be as great as some of you insist he is.

But until I see both of the above, I'm not buying it. We were better in the fourth quarter Thursday night with Dooling keeping the ball moving, and that's absolutely inexcusable.

Coach - I agree...I've seen Rondo loaf around some this season.

But haven't Chris Paul and Deron did that, too?

Just last night, I saw Caron Butler have to dig into his teams' behinds because they were loafing around early in the game, and it cost them.

Now? CP3 can tell Nick Young to can his outrageous outfits, because now CP3 (and LAC) have let MEM back into the series.

Marc Gasol and ZBo are on a roll, and the NBA had better look out.

CP3 could've/should've taken over, but now they are in trouble.

In a potential clinching game, AT HOME, the mighty Chris Paul played 35 minutes, went 4-9 from the field for 11 pts, and FOULED OUT?? Wow I just noticed that.

Oddly enough, it took me looking at the box score for that, because I barely recall the media mentioning the fact that the best PG in the game fouled out of an important game last night.

All I'm saying is that Rajon Rondo is not the only top-flight PG that mails it in from time to time.

[BballTim]

Ask yourself why we were better offensively in the fourth quarter Thursday night with Dooling running the point.

  First you should ask yourself *if* we were better offensively with Dooling running the point. First of all, and it's almost an aside, but all of the offense when Dooling was in came from KG, who came out of the game when Rondo went in. But beyond that, we scored 7 points in the 5.5 minutes Rondo was on the bench (including a tech, which isn't really offense) and 9 points in the 6.5 minutes he played.

  Either you know what you're watching, or you don't.

[nickagneta]

The issue is irrelevant because tonight Rondo will be celebrating a win over Philly after throwing up a 20 point 14 assist game and Gasol will be crying by his locker after getting his ass handed to him once again by a 6'7" 22 year old rookie.