Tommy Heinsohn once saw the future..and we all laughed at him

[nickagneta]

I never heard the original quote - did Tommy actually say Stiemsma was the next Bill Russell, or did he say that aspects of his game reminded him of Russell?  

The first one's completely ridiculous, but the second kind of comparison often gets jumped on unfairly in my opinion.  Steamer can do specific things similarly to Russell without being remotely as good a player.

I call foul here. That's keeping within the letter of the law but not the spirit. Gerald Green is one of the best dunkers in our era, Michael Jordan was one of the best dunkers of his era, but when looking for someone whose dunking ability to compare with Gerald Green's, it would follow you would not choose Michael Jordan, because Jordan is just one of those guys you can't just passively make a comparison to.

If he wanted to compare him to someone who blocks shots and holds down the paint, Ostertag, Shawn Bradley, Samuel Dalembert..i mean the list is endless. WHen you're comparing a guy to Bill Russell, you're by nature comparing him to the entirety of Russell, not just his proclivity for blocking shots.

I guess that's why I take those kinds of comparisons less seriously.  I don't see anything wrong with comparing Gerald Green's dunking ability to Jordan's (except that I'd put his style as closer to Nique's). As long as you're clear that it doesn't extend any farther, it's a legit comparison as far as I'm concerned.  Any overgeneralization beyond that is on the listener, not the speaker.

Either way, would you agree that "Stiemsma's timing on his shotblocks reminds me of Russell's" and "Stiemsma is the next Bill Russell" are two very different statements?

Yeah, but even then there are just so many other players you could compare him to, that it would follow there is a real reason you chose Russell.

Personally, I try to never even say the word 'Russell' in common parlance. If someone is named 'Russell', I just call them 'guy' or 'brobeans'.

He chose Bill Russell for a number of reasons.  The most likely is that all Celtic fans know how good a shot blocker Bill Russell is.  You pick Michael Jordan to compare dunking ability to because everyone knows how good a dunker Michael Jordan was, half the viewers wouldn't even know who Isiah Rider is, so why compare anyone to him, even if the comparison is an apt one.

Objectively, I think, as I said with FWF, you're technically right. But Tommy understands who Russell is and what he represents better than anyone. You don't compare a guy to Larry Bird because they tie their shoes similarly, and you don't say a guy 'blocks shots like Bill Russell' or whatever the actual quote was (apologies if I messed it up).

I stand by that. There are guys that are just off-limits. Jordan, Russell, Magic, Bird, you don't compare players to them because of what they've come to represent in the basketball idea-o-sphere.

You like that? I made that up.

Grantland should hire you IP. You're way more entertaining and creative than Bill Simmons. I mean that.

[nickagneta]

More proof that Danny Ainge is actually a terrible GM. A fact that has simply been hidden by him lucking into KG and Ray Allen, trades that were no-brainers in the first place.

Anything Ainge has done before or since has been pretty poor.

HUH?

[pearljammer10]

Bill Russell won 55 straight games in college, two national titles, a gold medal, and 3 NBA titles by the time he was Greg's age.

The comparision was and is ridiculous. Greg's a nice backup C, which is a testament to his game's growth this season.

This exactly...

I wouldnt be surprised to see Steamah back in the D league next year... And hes getting comapred to Russel? I mean there is not one superstar in the league that can be compared to russell compared to steamah.

[Merovech]

More proof that Danny Ainge is actually a terrible GM. A fact that has simply been hidden by him lucking into KG and Ray Allen, trades that were no-brainers in the first place.

Anything Ainge has done before or since has been pretty poor.

HUH?

I don't understand that at all.  If anything, Stiemsma is proof that Ainge does make good decisions.  Also, there were so many posts in this thread that I accidently tried to TP the same person twice within 5 minutes.

[pearljammer10]

Tommy Heinsohn also once said..."guarding allen iverson is like standing in an open window with no pants on... we all laughed at that too.

[Celtics4ever]

Tommy is prone to hyperbole but I still love the guy.  He is like my crazy old uncle.

[Carhole]

I never heard the original quote - did Tommy actually say Stiemsma was the next Bill Russell, or did he say that aspects of his game reminded him of Russell?  

The first one's completely ridiculous, but the second kind of comparison often gets jumped on unfairly in my opinion.  Steamer can do specific things similarly to Russell without being remotely as good a player.

This has been so blown out of proportion because media/fans love to bash tommy.

Your instinct was correct, after steamer had 3 blocks in like 5 minutes in an early season game - specifically after he blocked an opponents 15 ft jumper Tommy said (paraphrasing)

"Let me tell ya something, I played with a guy that had TIMING like that - He has the same timing as Russell in regards to meeting the ball at its peak to block shots"

That was it, all he said. And people ran with it.

It was never over the top (hard to believe from Tommy) or blasphemous. There are a million other parts of the game he doesnt share with russell. But the kid does have elite timing when it comes to blocking shots.  

[Roy H.]

No, Tommy wasn't saying that Stiemsma is as good as Russell overall.  However, even when talking specifically about shot-blocking, the comparison doesn't hold up.  Greg Stiemsma doesn't share technique with Bill Russell when it comes to shot-blocking, or timing, or anything else.  He's simply not in the same class.  That's shown in the block rate of both players (from everything I've read, Russell was much more proficient), as well as foul rates, etc.

[nickagneta]

I will admit that Stiemsma block percentage is pretty impressive but he also has played so little minutes that he doesn't qualify for being eligible for a leader in that department.

In today's NBA, compared to other players, Stiemsma's timing for shot blocking is very good. But you are talking about the abilities of the best shot blocker in history. There's just no comparison.

[Carhole]

No, Tommy wasn't saying that Stiemsma is as good as Russell overall.  However, even when talking specifically about shot-blocking, the comparison doesn't hold up.  Greg Stiemsma doesn't share technique with Bill Russell when it comes to shot-blocking, or timing, or anything else.  He's simply not in the same class.  That's shown in the block rate of both players (from everything I've read, Russell was much more proficient), as well as foul rates, etc.

Why can't he share the same kind of timing?

People always get all bent out of shape on comparisons to others. It is one of a small sub set of skills/talents that make up an entire persons being/game.

I am sure there have been people with even better timing than Russell that have played in the NBA but they didnt have the rest of the package so they never presented with the overall greatness that Russell did.

[nickagneta]

I am sure there have been people with even better timing than Russell that have played in the NBA but they didnt have the rest of the package so they never presented with the overall greatness that Russell did.

Why are you so sure of this? If they had that unique and elite of a skill don't you think it would have shown up in some way and been recognized by the various people who have covered and watched the NBA?

I'm not sure I have ever seen a shooting stroke as perfect as Ray Allen's.

I'm not sure I have ever see a competitive spirit as strong or basketball talent great as Michael Jordan's.

I'm not sure I have ever seen the raw strength in anyone as much as I have in Shaquille O'Neal.

I'm not sure I've seen shot blocking ability and timing as great as that of Bill Russell.

Some people just have the great skill ever. It really is that simple.

[indeedproceed]

Grantland should hire you IP. You're way more entertaining and creative than Bill Simmons. I mean that.

Hey thanks, man. I appreciate that.

[wiley]

I never heard the original quote - did Tommy actually say Stiemsma was the next Bill Russell, or did he say that aspects of his game reminded him of Russell?  

The first one's completely ridiculous, but the second kind of comparison often gets jumped on unfairly in my opinion.  Steamer can do specific things similarly to Russell without being remotely as good a player.

This has been so blown out of proportion because media/fans love to bash tommy.

Your instinct was correct, after steamer had 3 blocks in like 5 minutes in an early season game - specifically after he blocked an opponents 15 ft jumper Tommy said (paraphrasing)

"Let me tell ya something, I played with a guy that had TIMING like that - He has the same timing as Russell in regards to meeting the ball at its peak to block shots"

That was it, all he said. And people ran with it.

It was never over the top (hard to believe from Tommy) or blasphemous. There are a million other parts of the game he doesnt share with russell. But the kid does have elite timing when it comes to blocking shots.  

TP.

I think if Tommy could add one comment to this discussion it would be the following:  
LIGHTEN UP PEOPLE!!

I love listening to Tommy.  During down years when the team isn't is as good I find it especially rewarding...the energy, positivity, exuberance: the whole package.

When someone of Tommy's stature and expertise is making comments, my personal belief is that they've earned the right to embellish or exaggerate without being nit-picked.  We all hope young players develop into something.  So Tommy made a positive comparison/comment about Marcus Banks-doesn't mean he'd head to the track and put money him....

In fact, at times Tommy will gush about a young player and this will lead Gorman to ask Tommy about said player's potential, and Tommy will respond with something like:  No, let's not carried away, or No, he doesn't have this or that quality that that player had.  But if Mike hadn't pursued it Tommy never would have offered the qualification and his original praise would be there for people to squak about.

[Carhole]

I am sure there have been people with even better timing than Russell that have played in the NBA but they didnt have the rest of the package so they never presented with the overall greatness that Russell did.

Why are you so sure of this? If they had that unique and elite of a skill don't you think it would have shown up in some way and been recognized by the various people who have covered and watched the NBA?

I'm not sure I have ever seen a shooting stroke as perfect as Ray Allen's.

I'm not sure I have ever see a competitive spirit as strong or basketball talent great as Michael Jordan's.

I'm not sure I have ever seen the raw strength in anyone as much as I have in Shaquille O'Neal.

I'm not sure I've seen shot blocking ability and timing as great as that of Bill Russell.

Some people just have the great skill ever. It really is that simple.

Besides the fact it is all subjective. It is purely a numbers game. You say "some people just have great skill, it is really as simple as that". Exactly. Some people do just have these great assets but Russell wasnt Russ just because of that one skill.

I would wager that there are people that have even better timing that Russell, but they may have played d 2 for east bum-f college because they were 6'2" and did not have the other god given gifts and will that russell had.


So many people on here,and sports fans in general, have so many sacred cows that they are just willing to not ever be reasonable about.

So now you are asking me to take your opinion of Russel's timing over Heinshons? Why should I? How could you possibly be more of an authority than Tommy?

Does Tommy have some motive to say such a thing? Does he own a thousand Steamer, rookie cards that he is selling off on ebay?

Steve Nash has a better form stroke then ray allen....right now
Bird and Magic had just as much "competitive spirit" as Jordan

besides all of your instances start with "i am not sure" which again is the point.

I was raised on stories of the Russell celtics  (my first dog was named Russ) but I would not simply assume that Russell had better timing than Hakeem just because he is Russell.

I would be interested to know how old you are? Did you see Russell play and witness this timing you are so defensive of? Or is it just that the legend of a true great can not possibly share even one attribute with a career back up?

I was fortunate enough to play sports with some people that got full D1 scholarships and a couple that even played pro sports. I also know that I had certain skills that were better than theirs but I did not have the entire package that they were blessed with. It is the same thing.

Any people can share similar attributes, it is a lot more than one thing that goes into the overall success of such a great player like Russell

[JBone4eva]

I don't know why it continues to get misconstrued but Tommy never said Stiem was the next Russel, he even addressed in a recent postgame show.  He commented that his timing for blocks (basically how he times the ball leaving the opponents hand before he taps it) as being what Russel used to do.