Better without Ray?

[Jon]

I think if they win tonight, it is safe to say they are better without all the Big Three...

[Lord of Mikawa]

I think if they win tonight, it is safe to say they are better without all the Big Three...

That is taking it too far.

[ayer]

I think if they win tonight, it is safe to say they are better without all the Big Three...

Yeah they are better w/out the big three....




at least for a team like charlotte

[syfy9]

I do not want to see Ray start for the remainder of the season OR the playoffs.

[goCeltics]

they need ray coming in off the bench and filling it up, also at the end of games. Ray should play around 33 minutes and be a gunner off the bench

[jdz101]

Definitely need Ray for big shots.

We are definitely better with him available.

[cman88]

We need ray...the guy is one of the most clutch shooters in the NBA...just remember that 3 he hit in the miami game to take the wind out of their sails in the fourth??

Ray allen off the bench works for several reasons IMO.

1. this is a defensive team first. Bradley is a much better defender than allen and it sets a tone early.

2. Theres only so many shots to go around. usually in the beginning of games they are trying to establish Pierce/KG offensively..leaving ray too little shots. now he gets to be the focal point offensively of the 2nd unit

[xmuscularghandix]

I do not want to see Ray start for the remainder of the season OR the playoffs.

Exactly. He's a a GREAT shooter with poor ballhandling/playmaking ability, whose also lost some of his finishing ability. He can still be a huge asset to the team but it's clear that both Bradley and Pietrus are better for the Celtics in the starting lineup.

I love RR+AB. Ray for 6th Man.

[bdsulliv]

The thing with Ray is that the offense tends to stagnate while they wait for him to run off screens or try to set up a double screen for him. The offense is way more complex when he is in, and the Celtics just don't have the mental focus in the regular season to execute consistently. With Avery, he basically goes to the corner and cuts at the right time and gets clean up baskets, and doesn't need great picks (which is why Perk was so valuable). The new guys can run a simpler, easier offense, and don't have their heads on a swivel.

When Ray comes in on the second unit, he goes back to the Seattle Ray where he's the focus, and is way more productive for this version of the Big 3. Back in 2008, we had veterans like Posey and PJ Brown who lubricated the gears of the offense, and Ray was awesome.

[alajet]

The thing with Ray is that the offense tends to stagnate while they wait for him to run off screens or try to set up a double screen for him. The offense is way more complex when he is in, and the Celtics just don't have the mental focus in the regular season to execute consistently. With Avery, he basically goes to the corner and cuts at the right time and gets clean up baskets, and doesn't need great picks (which is why Perk was so valuable). The new guys can run a simpler, easier offense, and don't have their heads on a swivel.

When Ray comes in on the second unit, he goes back to the Seattle Ray where he's the focus, and is way more productive for this version of the Big 3. Back in 2008, we had veterans like Posey and PJ Brown who lubricated the gears of the offense, and Ray was awesome.

Good point here. Ray isn't someone like James Jones or Jason Kapono. You can't treat him as spot-up shooter and Celtics exactly did, early in the season.
Ray's ball handling isn't poor. I don't know how some posters came to such conclusion, but he can be the one to run the offense when he checks in
And one thing that is being overlooked that in the small sample of time we saw him coming from the bench, he played alongside KG. So, basically, we never had less than two of Big Four on court at the same time. That's the main reason I liked this change. 

[thestackshow]

The thing with Ray is that the offense tends to stagnate while they wait for him to run off screens or try to set up a double screen for him. The offense is way more complex when he is in, and the Celtics just don't have the mental focus in the regular season to execute consistently. With Avery, he basically goes to the corner and cuts at the right time and gets clean up baskets, and doesn't need great picks (which is why Perk was so valuable). The new guys can run a simpler, easier offense, and don't have their heads on a swivel.

When Ray comes in on the second unit, he goes back to the Seattle Ray where he's the focus, and is way more productive for this version of the Big 3. Back in 2008, we had veterans like Posey and PJ Brown who lubricated the gears of the offense, and Ray was awesome.

Good point here. Ray isn't someone like James Jones or Jason Kapono. You can't treat him as spot-up shooter and Celtics exactly did, early in the season.
Ray's ball handling isn't poor. I don't know how some posters came to such conclusion, but he can be the one to run the offense when he checks in
And one thing that is being overlooked that in the small sample of time we saw him coming from the bench, he played alongside KG. So, basically, we never had less than two of Big Four on court at the same time. That's the main reason I liked this change. 

Ray can absolutely be treated as a spot-up shooter at this point in his career, but the difference is, miami and LA have players that need to be double or triple teamed, and that leaves players like Jones and Kapono wide open for threes. Rays man is constantly locked on him and we dont have players on our team that need to be doubled, so he will never get open unless we are constantly attacking which we dont, or people are setting screens for him.

[alajet]

The thing with Ray is that the offense tends to stagnate while they wait for him to run off screens or try to set up a double screen for him. The offense is way more complex when he is in, and the Celtics just don't have the mental focus in the regular season to execute consistently. With Avery, he basically goes to the corner and cuts at the right time and gets clean up baskets, and doesn't need great picks (which is why Perk was so valuable). The new guys can run a simpler, easier offense, and don't have their heads on a swivel.

When Ray comes in on the second unit, he goes back to the Seattle Ray where he's the focus, and is way more productive for this version of the Big 3. Back in 2008, we had veterans like Posey and PJ Brown who lubricated the gears of the offense, and Ray was awesome.

Good point here. Ray isn't someone like James Jones or Jason Kapono. You can't treat him as spot-up shooter and Celtics exactly did, early in the season.
Ray's ball handling isn't poor. I don't know how some posters came to such conclusion, but he can be the one to run the offense when he checks in
And one thing that is being overlooked that in the small sample of time we saw him coming from the bench, he played alongside KG. So, basically, we never had less than two of Big Four on court at the same time. That's the main reason I liked this change. 

Ray can absolutely be treated as a spot-up shooter at this point in his career, but the difference is, miami and LA have players that need to be double or triple teamed, and that leaves players like Jones and Kapono wide open for threes. Rays man is constantly locked on him and we dont have players on our team that need to be doubled, so he will never get open unless we are constantly attacking which we dont, or people are setting screens for him.

Let's trade Jones for Ray, then, and see if they still keep double teaming those players to leave Ray wide open. I doubt they can. Even if they did, they'd end up getting buried, anyway.
Ray isn't a spot-up shooter. Spot-up shooters generally win 3-point contests. I could see nothing more than that. It's always a lot more valuable when you hit them over a defender in a real game situation and Ray, when he takes a three, is still in need of doing so.

[colincb]

I do not want to see Ray start for the remainder of the season OR the playoffs.

Exactly. He's a a GREAT shooter with poor ballhandling/playmaking ability, whose also lost some of his finishing ability. He can still be a huge asset to the team but it's clear that both Bradley and Pietrus are better for the Celtics in the starting lineup.

I love RR+AB. Ray for 6th Man.

Ray has a better assist% and turnover per 100 possessions than AB.  Bradley's a poor ballhandler and playmaker.  He's been told by Doc to work on his ballhandling specifically and he struggles when pressed.  Ray also has a better assist% than Pietrus, who is a black hole, but a slightly worse turnover ratio as Pietrus doesn't dribble or pass much.

I don't think ballhandling or playmaking has anything to do with doc wanting Ray on the second unit and closing out games.