JO's defense is excellent though. 

JO isn't a starting quality center on a contender.  He'd be OK for 16 minutes a night off the pine.

JO isn't a starting quality center on a contender.  He'd be OK for 16 minutes a night off the pine.

But Joel Anthony and Kendrick Perkins are?

The truth is exactly the opposite of the OP's statement.  If we get rid of JO, I see very little realistic possibility that we can replace him with a center who is as good an interior defender as he is.  

His offense is pretty mediocre right now and there's always an injury risk with JO, but right now we desperately need his defensive presence in the middle.  I just hope he stays healthy for the playoffs.

Quote from: TripleOT on February 10, 2012, 09:53:32 AM

JO isn't a starting quality center on a contender.  He'd be OK for 16 minutes a night off the pine.

But Joel Anthony and Kendrick Perkins are?

The truth is exactly the opposite of the OP's statement.  If we get rid of JO, I see very little realistic possibility that we can replace him with a center who is as good an interior defender as he is.  

His offense is pretty mediocre right now and there's always an injury risk with JO, but right now we desperately need his defensive presence in the middle.  I just hope he stays healthy for the playoffs.

Jermaine is decent defender, but let's not make him out to be the anchor of our defense.  If we moved Garnett to the 5 and played JJJ at the 4, there would not be much drop off defensively.  And if there is, then so what. We give up 91 pts a game instead of 86.  With O'neal out of the lineup, we'd average maybe 96 or 97, instead of 91. 

Additionally, saying O'neals offense is mediocre is being very kind.  He's a poor offensive player who cannot make a 10-footer anymore, and he also struggles to finish on putbacks.  He shoots 43% from the field and the only reason it's that high is because he doesn't have many attempts and because Rondo finds him for the occasional uncontested layup.

Quote from: Bankshot on February 10, 2012, 09:43:47 AM

JO's defense is excellent though. 

It wasn't last night.  Gasol had 25 and 14 and Bynum 16 and 17.

His defense is fine, and he's not "cooked."  Do you know how good Bynum and Gasol are?  Their length and Gasol's passing gives them twice as many easy baskets than any other team in the league.

KG helps Ray on the pick and roll which gives Gasol good positioning and single coverage.  Then JO helps on Gasol, and Bynum gets position on our entire team under the rim, opening up the alley oop, the tip in, or endless offensive boards (while Gasol crashes with him every time).

It's not like JO was just choosing to be lazy and not box out, Bynum was getting the position almost every possession because JO and KG were doing their jobs on Kobe and Gasol.  It's easy to say just put a body on him afterwards, but when you're facing a guy with significant strength, speed, leaping, and length advantages, he's going to pin you under the rim and grab the rebound over the top of a guy 10 years older than him every time.

Now would a really good rebounder help our team full of average rebounders...obviously.  In order to get that though, you have to take an unimaginable hit to the defense.  Same if you want a better shooter/finisher.

JO makes us a very tough defensive team, and I thoroughly disagree that defense was the problem last night.  It was an 88-87 OT game.  We absolutely shut the Lakers offense down in the last 10 minutes and forced them into a ton of misses.  Most of their baskets were a result good rebounding.  We lost because the Celtics couldn't run their offense to save their lives.

Quote from: lantinm on February 10, 2012, 09:49:49 AM

Quote from: Bankshot on February 10, 2012, 09:43:47 AM

JO's defense is excellent though. 

It wasn't last night.  Gasol had 25 and 14 and Bynum 16 and 17.

His defense is fine, and he's not "cooked."  Do you know how good Bynum and Gasol are?  Their length and Gasol's passing gives them twice as many easy baskets than any other team in the league.

KG helps Ray on the pick and roll which gives Gasol good positioning and single coverage.  Then JO helps on Gasol, and Bynum gets position on our entire team under the rim, opening up the alley oop, the tip in, or endless offensive boards (while Gasol crashes with him every time).

It's not like JO was just choosing to be lazy and not box out, Bynum was getting the position almost every possession because JO and KG were doing their jobs on Kobe and Gasol.  It's easy to say just put a body on him afterwards, but when you're facing a guy with significant strength, speed, leaping, and length advantages, he's going to pin you under the rim and grab the rebound over the top of a guy 10 years older than him every time.

Now would a really good rebounder help our team full of average rebounders...obviously.  In order to get that though, you have to take an unimaginable hit to the defense.  Same if you want a better shooter/finisher.

JO makes us a very tough defensive team, and I thoroughly disagree that defense was the problem last night.  It was an 88-87 OT game.  We absolutely shut the Lakers offense down in the last 10 minutes and forced them into a ton of misses.  Most of their baskets were a result good rebounding.  We lost because the Celtics couldn't run their offense to save their lives.

"An unimaginable hit to the defense" is more than a bit strong.  JO is a good post defender, a solid rim protector and a decent team defender, but he's not the heart and soul of the defense, not even close.  This team has been able to play tremendous defense with the likes of ancient Shaq, postsurgery Perk and Erden, not to mention undersized guys like Powe, Bass and Baby.

I like JO, and I'd like to keep him, but we need a better offensive center (either as a scorer/finisher or offensive rebounder), and that center doesn't have to be as good as he is defensively.     

JO - 5.2 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 1.5 bpg, 22.9 min/game
Perk - 4.6 ppg, 5.4 rpg, 1.1 bpg, 26.4 min/game

JO provides more production in fewer minutes than Perk and despite his age and health issues is more athletic finishing at the rim. Can we put all the bull**** that we lost the world last year when we trade Perk to rest. I don't say that he's better player than Perk, I'm just saying that Perk is super overrated and 98% of the Celtics fans overreacted last year when we traded him. Well one year later, it's clear who Perk is and how much he brings to the table, so I'm glad we escape the route to overpay him in the summer. You can say what you want, but Danny pull another good deal on this one. He get a great pick (he never knew that Clippers will add Chris Paul to the mix and the pick will fall to the 20's) and still manage to get back the best player in the deal in Jeff Green (he also never knew that this will happen to Jeff). Nobody gave Danny credit for his job, and he is doing it good... period.