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Author Topic: bos/por/nor-- Camby to Boston  (Read 3457 times)

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bos/por/nor-- Camby to Boston
« on: January 31, 2012, 07:28:47 PM »

Offline jmei

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Here's a deal I've been thinking about:
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=7wc37fx

To Boston: Marcus Camby
To Portland: Chris Kaman
To New Orleans: Jermaine O'Neal, Keyon Dooling, JuJuan Johnson

I think it makes sense for Boston-- Camby is a better rebounder, more durable, and might even be a better offensive player (due to offensive rebounds). He's not as good of a help defender or charge-taker as O'Neal, but I think he'll fit in just fine in the team offense, especially by the playoffs. With the emergence of Bradley/Moore, Dooling is kind of superfluous and is necessary to make the salaries fit. JJ has lots of potential but he won't play meaningful minutes this season. This is a win-now move for Boston, as JJ might evolve into a decent piece, but it would take a few years given his frame and lack of strength.

For New Orleans, they pick up two expiring salaries, pay $4.5m less in salary this season, and acquire a promising PF prospect in Johnson. No-brainer for them, as long as they don't see a better deal.

For Portland, they swap centers, getting a more versatile offensive player in Kaman who can score in the post. Hollinger had this to say about a Camby-Kaman trade in his piece today:
Quote
The other deal that works is to send Kaman to Portland for Marcus Camby, with the Blazers sending a guard prospect back to New Orleans. This is unpalatable for two reasons : 1) it just leaves the Hornets doing the same dance with Camby, and 2) the Blazers would inevitably face Camby on another Western team's roster after his inevitable buyout from New Orleans.
...and this deal takes care of Hollinger's concerns.

Thoughts?
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Re: bos/por/nor-- Camby to Boston
« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2012, 08:02:49 PM »

Offline gar

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Love Camby; but not for JjJ - JO, Dooling and Sasha or a pick maybe.
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Re: bos/por/nor-- Camby to Boston
« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2012, 08:11:59 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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Can't trade Moore and JJJ, they are our YOUNG legs, Camby is old as dirt.
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Re: bos/por/nor-- Camby to Boston
« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2012, 08:35:50 PM »

Offline mqtcelticsfan

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This is the kind of deal that makes my brain happy. While it could backfire, especially for the Celtics, I think it makes a lot of sense.
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Re: bos/por/nor-- Camby to Boston
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2012, 09:34:36 PM »

Offline wdleehi

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The difference between Camby and ONeal is not worth JJJ at this point. 


More to the point, if those three can knock lose Kaman, why include Portland?  Just get Kaman
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Re: bos/por/nor-- Camby to Boston
« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2012, 09:55:37 PM »

Offline slamtheking

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Quote from: wdleehi on January 31, 2012, 09:34:36 PM
The difference between Camby and ONeal is not worth JJJ at this point. 


More to the point, if those three can knock lose Kaman, why include Portland?  Just get Kaman
this.

to add on, I don't like losing Dooling who is the only experienced player to back up Rondo and JJJ is too promising at this point to just toss him away for Kaman.  C's are rebuilding after this year and JJJ fits that goal better than Kaman.

neither Kaman nor Camby will put this team over the top for the title.
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Re: bos/por/nor-- Camby to Boston
« Reply #6 on: January 31, 2012, 09:58:31 PM »

Offline mqtcelticsfan

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Quote from: wdleehi on January 31, 2012, 09:34:36 PM
The difference between Camby and ONeal is not worth JJJ at this point. 


More to the point, if those three can knock lose Kaman, why include Portland?  Just get Kaman

Yes, but what about the difference between Camby and Wilcox?

Also, I'd be inclined to agree with you about getting Kaman instead of Camby. We need depth, either way, though.
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Re: bos/por/nor-- Camby to Boston
« Reply #7 on: January 31, 2012, 10:00:54 PM »

Offline wdleehi

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Quote from: mqtcelticsfan on January 31, 2012, 09:58:31 PM
Quote from: wdleehi on January 31, 2012, 09:34:36 PM
The difference between Camby and ONeal is not worth JJJ at this point. 


More to the point, if those three can knock lose Kaman, why include Portland?  Just get Kaman

Yes, but what about the difference between Camby and Wilcox?


Why does that matter?  Wilcox is not being traded in this.  And at the end of the day, still would not give up JJJ at this point for a slowing Camby.

Quote
Also, I'd be inclined to agree with you about getting Kaman instead of Camby. We need depth, either way, though.


The issue is, this is not likely enough pry Kaman out.
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Re: bos/por/nor-- Camby to Boston
« Reply #8 on: January 31, 2012, 10:04:41 PM »

Offline mqtcelticsfan

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Quote from: wdleehi on January 31, 2012, 10:00:54 PM
Quote from: mqtcelticsfan on January 31, 2012, 09:58:31 PM

Yes, but what about the difference between Camby and Wilcox?


Why does that matter?  Wilcox is not being traded in this.  And at the end of the day, still would not give up JJJ at this point for a slowing Camby.

My point is that getting Camby would push everyone else down the depth chart. I'd be more comfortable with Wilcox being in the Steimsma role, personally. Our lack of depth up front is the biggest weakness.
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Re: bos/por/nor-- Camby to Boston
« Reply #9 on: January 31, 2012, 10:05:32 PM »

Offline wdleehi

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Quote from: mqtcelticsfan on January 31, 2012, 10:04:41 PM
Quote from: wdleehi on January 31, 2012, 10:00:54 PM
Quote from: mqtcelticsfan on January 31, 2012, 09:58:31 PM

Yes, but what about the difference between Camby and Wilcox?


Why does that matter?  Wilcox is not being traded in this.  And at the end of the day, still would not give up JJJ at this point for a slowing Camby.

My point is that getting Camby would push everyone else down the depth chart. I'd be more comfortable with Wilcox being in the Steimsma role, personally. Our lack of depth up front is the biggest weakness.


How does that shift anything?

JO is replaced by Camby.  No one else is added.
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Re: bos/por/nor-- Camby to Boston
« Reply #10 on: January 31, 2012, 10:37:49 PM »

Offline mqtcelticsfan

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Quote from: wdleehi on January 31, 2012, 10:05:32 PM
Quote from: mqtcelticsfan on January 31, 2012, 10:04:41 PM
Quote from: wdleehi on January 31, 2012, 10:00:54 PM
Quote from: mqtcelticsfan on January 31, 2012, 09:58:31 PM

Yes, but what about the difference between Camby and Wilcox?


Why does that matter?  Wilcox is not being traded in this.  And at the end of the day, still would not give up JJJ at this point for a slowing Camby.

My point is that getting Camby would push everyone else down the depth chart. I'd be more comfortable with Wilcox being in the Steimsma role, personally. Our lack of depth up front is the biggest weakness.


How does that shift anything?

JO is replaced by Camby.  No one else is added.

Oh boy. Oops! Disregard my argument. :)
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Re: bos/por/nor-- Camby to Boston
« Reply #11 on: January 31, 2012, 10:41:43 PM »

Offline Yoki_IsTheName

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I like the idea but I think we are giving up a little too much. Portland may bite on this as Aldridge needs a little more help in scoring. But the Celtics are giving up way too much here IMO.
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Re: bos/por/nor-- Camby to Boston
« Reply #12 on: January 31, 2012, 11:26:31 PM »

Offline jmei

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Quote from: wdleehi on January 31, 2012, 09:34:36 PM
More to the point, if those three can knock lose Kaman, why include Portland?  Just get Kaman

You need to include Portland/Camby to make the cap math work. Your outgoing salary needs to be within 125% of incoming salary and Camby makes less money than Kaman so we can fit him in but we can't fit in Kaman (unless you offer O'Neal/Johnson/Bass or O'Neal/Johnson/Dooling/Wilcox, either of which would gut our big man depth).

I also think Camby is a better fit than Kaman is. This team really struggles with rebounding sometimes, and noone on the team has the combination of lift and length to outjump guys like Noah or Hibbert or Varejao (KG/JO have no lift, Bass has no length). Camby is an elite rebounder, especially on the offensive end, and he can create buckets and extra possessions without having plays run for him. As an added benefit, Camby is a great passer from the high post and has an unwieldy but relatively accurate jump shot. He's also a good defender with the length to bother post players and a very good help defender/shot blocker. That said, Camby is not a great pick-and-roll defender or perimeter defender due to his lack of speed and quickness. I see him as a better JO in pretty much all aspects of the game besides pick-and-roll defense-- including a massive rebounding upgrade where the Celtics are weakest defensively. He's old but not too injury-prone and can handle more minutes than JO.

Kaman, on the other hand, is a good post player but is a bit of a black hole offensively and is an average-at-best defender and rebounder. Not sure that's what this team really needs from its starting center.
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Re: bos/por/nor-- Camby to Boston
« Reply #13 on: January 31, 2012, 11:34:16 PM »

Offline jmei

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I dunno, I'm probably just unwilling to face the music and move on to post-big-3 rebuilding, but I think that this team, when healthy and rested, is the clear #3 team in the East and has a solid shot of making noise in the playoffs. I'd rather them try and go all-in one last time before moving on to rebuilding and don't think JaJuan Johnson is good enough of a prospect to stand in the way of that. He might become a decent player, but I don't see him becoming a key rotational player for a title contender in the next three or four years and so to me he's pretty fungible. And the upgrade from JO to Camby is clear to me, especially on the boards, where this team has shown weakness in the playoffs.
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