Are we a better team without Rondo and Ray?

[Bankshot]

No.



What we are seeing is Pierce re-emerging as the player he is.  


As popular as the theory that this team is as only good as Rondo, Pierce is still the key.  



Rondo and Ray's return will enhance what this team can do now that Pierce is back.

Totally agree!  Pierce is the key to this team.  I always said that.  Never thought Rondo was the best player on this team, although he is one of the best.

[wdleehi]

No.



What we are seeing is Pierce re-emerging as the player he is.  


As popular as the theory that this team is as only good as Rondo, Pierce is still the key.  



Rondo and Ray's return will enhance what this team can do now that Pierce is back.

Totally agree!  Pierce is the key to this team.  I always said that.  Never thought Rondo was the best player on this team, although he is one of the best.

Rondo is the matchup nightmare for certain good teams.  His ability to attack the basket creates more opportunities. 


But Pierce is still the key to this team.

[CelticG1]

No we aren't better but in the 4th quarter I would love to see Pierce initiate the offense and not Rondo. Put someone on the floor to spot up at the 3 like moore.

We have to work easy to hard to get open looks when Rondo ours in the 4th and opposing ds tighten up. Everyone tightens up on our guys, we have no spacing and it makes it extremely difficult for rondo to create.

We should at least do this in big games when Pierce can take on the load

[bopna]

I'm surprised people are debating Ray's effectiveness.

First, he's been by far our most efficient offensive player.  There's a question about whether he's getting enough shots in the offense, but there's no doubt that when he takes shots, he makes them at a more efficient rate than anybody else on the team.

Defensively, at least through January 18 he'd held opponents to a 9.9 PER and a .437 eFG%.  To date, opponents are shooting 38.7% when he's covering them.  He's not a ball hawk like Bradley is, but opposing SGs aren't lighting him up, either.

Ray's efficiency isnt the issue..its docs offensive scheme's whenever ray is playing. Our offense becomes stagnant waiting for ray coming off screens doing his hide and seek thing and by the time ray gets the ball there is only 5 sec left on the shotclock it even results in a turnover when he ovr dribbles.

But no question when on transition where ray is more effective.

  One problem Ray has is that as he loses his athleticism it gets harder for him to get open. He's shooting great, but he's taking fewer shots. The bigger issue I see is his passing, which is pretty turnover prone.

[LB3533]

The answer is a flat out no.

Moore was open, if they leave Ray open we get the same result on offense.

Having both Rondo and Ray back will make us a devastating team.

[RJ87]

I think someone already said it, but I'm going to say it again: it takes so much time and energy to get Ray Allen the ball. Some of you should really, really watch a play involving Ray. REALLY watch it - there's so much going on for the other plays involved, multiple screens, decoy movement.

Now I'm not saying Ray hurts the offense, his 3 pt shooting is an asset to any team. But sometimes we run plays for him too much and the offense gets stagnant.

[MBunge]

Now I'm not saying Ray hurts the offense, his 3 pt shooting is an asset to any team. But sometimes we run plays for him too much and the offense gets stagnant.

It wouldn't be quite so bad if sometimes we'd run a play for Ray and then go to another option, like one of the guys setting a screen for him suddenly flashes into the lane or something.  Instead, when we run a play for Ray he's the first and last option and the team is left to scramble with the shot clock running down if he can't do something.

Mike

[Eja117]

In one game? Pooossssibbbly. But there's no way Pierce is playing 47 minutes a night. Nothing wrong with letting the kids play a lot more. But to answer the question I gotta go with no

[Capricious]

They are winning because Pierce decided to stop bricking every shot and is playing well-rounded games.

This team is better with Rondo/Ray, but I do agree that we need to reduce the plays with 15 seconds of Ray trying to run around screens.  Sometimes its ok just to have Ray sitting in the corner waiting for a drive and kick.

Also, Rondo 'gambles' on D because there is no way to guard PGs straight up in the modern NBA. Who is a lock-down defender at PG?

[Tai]

Lol...really? We're asking questions like this after two games? 

Are people trying to vie for Ray to be traded or what? Or even Rondo?

I suppose without Ray we're younger, but better? Roy probably said the only meaningful stat I'd have to say about him. I could agree to not having to wait for him to run through screens

I also like how this topic doesn't include JO, but I guess I should know better, considering no one here even likes him.

[Junkyard Dawg]

No we aren't better but in the 4th quarter I would love to see Pierce initiate the offense and not Rondo. Put someone on the floor to spot up at the 3 like moore.

We have to work easy to hard to get open looks when Rondo ours in the 4th and opposing ds tighten up. Everyone tightens up on our guys, we have no spacing and it makes it extremely difficult for rondo to create.

We should at least do this in big games when Pierce can take on the load

Interesting idea.  I am all for diversifying our offense during games -- I do think Rondo tends to do most of his damage in the 2nd and 3rd quarters, and our offense tends to stagnate later on in games.. but i'm not sure if this is because our guys are tired or something else.  It sounds like Rondo's gonna miss a few more games so I hope Doc takes this time to evaluate what he really has in Moore/Bradley and how they can best be utilized.

[Q_FBE]

Our ceiling is much higher with Ray and Rondo. There still is plenty of work to get to that level we need to be at. So I am with everyone else here in that the answer is no.

[ejk3489]

Um no. Last night was a great comeback win, but maybe if we had Rondo and/or Ray we wouldn't have had to overcome a 27 point deficit in the first place.

[Celtics4ever]

NO!  No,we are not a better team.

[snively]

I think you can credit Avery Bradley's energy with some of the defensive turnaround, but it's KG's mini-revival that has been the most important.  Averaged 10 boards, 4 steals and 3 blocks in the games against Orlando.  When we have that KG we're a top 3 defensive team, with or without Rondo & Ray (though it doesn't hurt to get more minutes from a defensive specialist like Avery).

Offensively we're treading water thanks to Pierce and improved bench play (Daniels finally showing life), but there's not enough offensive talent on this team without Ray and Rondo.