Author Topic: Blowing it up is probably the best thing to do to be better in the future. (Read 7769 times)

Yoki_IsTheName · « **on:** January 25, 2012, 05:03:30 AM »

I am an avid listener of ESPN's NBA Today podcast. While I was listening to it, Ryen Russillo, the host of the show stumbled upon the reports of Danny willing to blow up the team for the right offers.

I am also one of the guys who would like to have this core intact until the contracts expire and have a massive cap space next season and go from there.

Ryen Russillo i think is spot on though, in saying that if the offers are reasonable, even if they tie the Celtics up for some long term deals, for the BIg 3, Danny should pull the trigger.

The thing is, cap space is kind of a bit overrated. Even with huge amounts of available money the Celtics can spend, there are no guarantees that the C's would sign the talent that they go for. And with the new CBA rules, the Celtics have to spend that available cap space, no matter what. So if no good talents in the free agency would sign with Boston, chances are they will have a bunch of role players to be tied up in contracts.

Having said, trading to get at least some productive players even if they are going to be owed for 3-4 more years and/or future picks would be the best way to go. Chances of getting some quality guys from blowing up the team would be much better than hoping that a good tier player will sign as a FA.

What's your opinion on this?

Celtics4ever · « **Reply #1 on:** January 25, 2012, 07:30:43 AM »

I agree. Kevin Love just extended with Minnesota.

http://www.twincities.com/sports/ci_19812888

So cross him off the list.

The real issue is the team rounding out into form which there are signs of lately. I am all for blowing it up but only if this team is not feasible. As of late, they have shown some signs that maybe some life is left in them. If they falter I am all for blowing it up. If they improve then I say let them play it out.

Rebuilding is going to suck either way. While it is going to be a 2-3 year process if we are lucky. 4-5 is a more realistic estimate. I don't think Ainge will much around like Pitino did.

Roy H. · « **Reply #2 on:** January 25, 2012, 07:35:26 AM »

I disagree, at least in general.

First, even though the Celtics have to spend up to the salary floor, that doesn't mean they have to take on bad long-term contracts for role players. Rather, they can sign guys to one year deals, which is a much better route.

Second, trading for good-but-not-great guys on long-term deals is the way to guarantee mediocrity going forward. I would rather see the team maintain its cap space from year to year, rebuilding via the draft.

Now, if we're talking about trading for guys with another year on their contract in return for a draft pick, that makes a lot of sense, I think, especially when looking at our free agency options this summer. If somebody wants to throw us a pick for absorbing one year of bad salary, fantastic. Two years, it becomes more iffy, because at that point we're losing some free agent opportunities and are probably delaying our rebuilding. Three or more years I don't think makes a lot of sense at all.

Jeff · « **Reply #3 on:** January 25, 2012, 07:56:23 AM »

the critical point in all this is what you can get for them - I'm a firm believer that you aren't going to get enough, but nobody can tell until the deadline and even then we may never know (depending on your subjective definition of "enough")

by the way, an undersold (at least by me) aspect of keeping Pierce around is his amnesty eligibility - we've got tons of cap room and if we really wanted to (or if Pierce got hurt or retired) we could just cut his contract from the books and get even more space

in essence, we could very well build an entire new team next year with free agency and taking-on-salary trades - even Rondo isn't a slam dunk to return next year

wait a few more months... then buckle up - it will be an interesting summer

bfrombleacher · « **Reply #4 on:** January 25, 2012, 08:09:59 AM »

Pretty much everything Roy said. And for that a TP for him, not that he needs another one.

PosImpos · « **Reply #5 on:** January 25, 2012, 08:15:25 AM »

Quote from: Jeff on January 25, 2012, 07:56:23 AM

wait a few more months... then buckle up - it will be an interesting summer

one of the most difficult things, I think, is just accepting the idea that we might just have to wait a few months and play out the whole rest of the season before anything significant happens with this team.

if we come to the conclusion that the only way to move forward is to rebuild, then it's hard to be particularly excited or interested until we start doing that, and the impulse is to want to start doing it right away.

also, we keep hearing about how stacked this draft class is going to be, so it seems like a big waste to just play out the string and fizzle out in the playoffs if we could blow it up early and get a pick in the mid to late lottery instead.

Celtics18 · « **Reply #6 on:** January 25, 2012, 08:56:50 AM »

Quote from: PosImpos on January 25, 2012, 08:15:25 AM

Quote from: Jeff on January 25, 2012, 07:56:23 AM

wait a few more months... then buckle up - it will be an interesting summer

one of the most difficult things, I think, is just accepting the idea that we might just have to wait a few months and play out the whole rest of the season before anything significant happens with this team.

if we come to the conclusion that the only way to move forward is to rebuild, then it's hard to be particularly excited or interested until we start doing that, and the impulse is to want to start doing it right away.

also, we keep hearing about how stacked this draft class is going to be, so it seems like a big waste to just play out the string and fizzle out in the playoffs if we could blow it up early and get a pick in the mid to late lottery instead.

This post gets to the heart of the debate about whether to blow it up or not blow it up. It seems to me to come down to whether the individual fan can deal with watching this team give it one more shot and face the real possibility that it might not end in glory.

For me personally, even something as small in the grand scheme as the recent Orlando victory has given me plenty of joy and enthusiasm over watching this team play. I expect more such moments over the course of this season and (hopefully) post season. I also expect some depressing and maybe even slightly embarrassing performances along the way with this aging group.

I'll take the trade off, keeping my fingers crossed and my hopes up along the way. But, I understand the mindset of the fans who just can't bear it and would rather blow it up and let these guys loose to guard against the possibility of pain and heart break.

wdleehi · « **Reply #7 on:** January 25, 2012, 09:27:51 AM »

I saw this before.

It was the NY Knicks post Patrick Ewing.

Do we really want to see Boston go down that road?

PosImpos · « **Reply #8 on:** January 25, 2012, 10:53:41 AM »

Quote from: wdleehi on January 25, 2012, 09:27:51 AM

I saw this before.

It was the NY Knicks post Patrick Ewing.

Do we really want to see Boston go down that road?

Are we going to hire Isiah Thomas? If not, it's totally different.

wdleehi · « **Reply #9 on:** January 25, 2012, 12:12:37 PM »

Quote from: PosImpos on January 25, 2012, 10:53:41 AM

Quote from: wdleehi on January 25, 2012, 09:27:51 AM
I saw this before.

It was the NY Knicks post Patrick Ewing.

Do we really want to see Boston go down that road?

Are we going to hire Isiah Thomas? If not, it's totally different.

Thomas was only the 2nd GM for the Knicks to go down that path. It started before him.

Remember they trade Ewing for a package that include Glen Rice. That was the beginning of the end of that team.

Unless the Celtics get a true young star free of junk cap filler, it just isn't worth the trade when rebuilding.

Jeff · « **Reply #10 on:** January 25, 2012, 12:15:07 PM »

if we (as fans in general) can't wait 5 - 6 months to start the rebuild process, how are we going to manage waiting through the rebuild process itself (assuming Ainge can't turn things around on a dime)?

PosImpos · « **Reply #11 on:** January 25, 2012, 02:35:29 PM »

Quote from: Jeff on January 25, 2012, 12:15:07 PM

if we (as fans in general) can't wait 5 - 6 months to start the rebuild process, how are we going to manage waiting through the rebuild process itself (assuming Ainge can't turn things around on a dime)?

Hope. The excitement of watching young players. The prospect of the next big thing coming via a lottery pick.

Witness even this season the excitement that people have to see JJJ play, or the fact that the rocky development of Avery Bradley has been the most interesting storyline of the season so far.

CelticG1 · « **Reply #12 on:** January 25, 2012, 02:44:16 PM »

Quote from: PosImpos on January 25, 2012, 02:35:29 PM

Quote from: Jeff on January 25, 2012, 12:15:07 PM
if we (as fans in general) can't wait 5 - 6 months to start the rebuild process, how are we going to manage waiting through the rebuild process itself (assuming Ainge can't turn things around on a dime)?

Hope. The excitement of watching young players. The prospect of the next big thing coming via a lottery pick.

Witness even this season the excitement that people have to see JJJ play, or the fact that the rocky development of Avery Bradley has been the most interesting storyline of the season so far.

Have you watched this team when they've been in that position? Not as fun as fun as you'd think it is

nickagneta · « **Reply #13 on:** January 25, 2012, 02:47:06 PM »

Quote from: Roy H. on January 25, 2012, 07:35:26 AM

I disagree, at least in general.

First, even though the Celtics have to spend up to the salary floor, that doesn't mean they have to take on bad long-term contracts for role players. Rather, they can sign guys to one year deals, which is a much better route.

Second, trading for good-but-not-great guys on long-term deals is the way to guarantee mediocrity going forward. I would rather see the team maintain its cap space from year to year, rebuilding via the draft.

Now, if we're talking about trading for guys with another year on their contract in return for a draft pick, that makes a lot of sense, I think, especially when looking at our free agency options this summer. If somebody wants to throw us a pick for absorbing one year of bad salary, fantastic. Two years, it becomes more iffy, because at that point we're losing some free agent opportunities and are probably delaying our rebuilding. Three or more years I don't think makes a lot of sense at all.

TP...saved me the time writing the exact same thing.

BballTim · « **Reply #14 on:** January 25, 2012, 02:47:25 PM »

Quote from: PosImpos on January 25, 2012, 02:35:29 PM

Quote from: Jeff on January 25, 2012, 12:15:07 PM
if we (as fans in general) can't wait 5 - 6 months to start the rebuild process, how are we going to manage waiting through the rebuild process itself (assuming Ainge can't turn things around on a dime)?

Hope. The excitement of watching young players. The prospect of the next big thing coming via a lottery pick.

Witness even this season the excitement that people have to see JJJ play, or the fact that the rocky development of Avery Bradley has been the most interesting storyline of the season so far.

I don't know about people in general, but in terms of this website I don't think we'll see a ton of hope during the rebuild unless we score a franchise player fairly quickly. I think it will be more like the negative attitudes on HGH, kind of like it was before.

Author Topic: Blowing it up is probably the best thing to do to be better in the future. (Read 7769 times)

Blowing it up is probably the best thing to do to be better in the future.

Yoki_IsTheName

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Celtics4ever

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Roy H.

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Jeff

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bfrombleacher

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PosImpos

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Celtics18

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wdleehi

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PosImpos

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wdleehi

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Jeff

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PosImpos

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CelticG1

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nickagneta

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BballTim

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