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Author Topic: would the knicks be better without the Melo trade?  (Read 4908 times)

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would the knicks be better without the Melo trade?
« on: January 14, 2012, 02:08:59 PM »

Offline cman88

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I say yes. the knicks right now are 6-5 while the Nuggets who have many players that were on the knicks are 8-4 and playing some inspired team basketball.

theres no doubt that Carmelo anthony is a talent in this league..lets not act like those nugget teams he was on werent just as talented. billups, nene..

the reason those teams never went anywhere is melo's playing style...once the ball touches his hands the ball movement stops and he looks for his shot.

before the melo trade, the Knicks were a really hot team and amare was playing out of this world...once melo comes to the team(even til now) amare isnt getting as many shots/looking as dominant and the ball isnt moving around as much.

idk, maybe its me but I just see the knicks being the Nuggets of the east

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Re: would the knicks be better without the Melo trade?
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2012, 02:14:34 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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I think the Knicks would be better if they picked one pure scorer between AMare and Melo and built a team and playing style around one of them that made some sense. If you took Melo or AMare out of that lineup and put in a guy like Rondo, or Kyle Lowry, or Steve Nash, and inserted a reliable jumpshooter with a defensive lean into the starting spot vacated by the departed player, you're closer to 8-3 than you are 6-5.
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Re: would the knicks be better without the Melo trade?
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2012, 02:19:58 PM »

Offline cman88

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Quote from: IndeedProceed on January 14, 2012, 02:14:34 PM
I think the Knicks would be better if they picked one pure scorer between AMare and Melo and built a team and playing style around one of them that made some sense. If you took Melo or AMare out of that lineup and put in a guy like Rondo, or Kyle Lowry, or Steve Nash, and inserted a reliable jumpshooter with a defensive lean into the starting spot vacated by the departed player, you're closer to 8-3 than you are 6-5.

definitely agree, and thats why I think the knicks were much better before the trade for melo...you had amare be "the man" but then had solid roleplayers around him like gallinari, felton etc.

I also think losing billups hurts them because he provides a stabilizer on the court...IMO Tyson chandler is a solid roleplayer but over-rated for what they are paying him. the guy has only had 1 really good season...last year
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Re: would the knicks be better without the Melo trade?
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2012, 02:22:37 PM »

Offline PosImpos

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Give them a true point guard and a decent bench and they'd be a heck of a lot better. 

The Melo trade was smart . . . it might not have made them better in the short term (hard to say), but anytime you can get one transcendent player, you do it. 

The Knicks can fill their team with productive role players over the next couple of years to replace what they gave up.  But they couldn't have gotten a superstar like Melo except by trading for him.
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Re: would the knicks be better without the Melo trade?
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2012, 02:25:02 PM »

Offline RJ87

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The issue with NYK is that Melo and Amare's playing styles don't compliment one another. Those two guys are going to have to adapt aspects of their games to make things more cohesive and that hasn't happened yet. Melo is going to have to be more unselfish and start looking to move the ball, or heck, those two need to spend some hours practicing their pick and roll game.

It's rare that superstars come together and the pieces just fit as they did with our Big 3. Even Miami struggled in their first season (and continue to do so to a lesser extent) because of how similar Wade and LBJ's skill-sets are.

My point is, it's going to take sacrifice for that duo to work longterm. That hasn't happened yet, so things aren't as good as the could be potentially.
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Re: would the knicks be better without the Melo trade?
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2012, 02:27:32 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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Quote from: cman88 on January 14, 2012, 02:19:58 PM
Quote from: IndeedProceed on January 14, 2012, 02:14:34 PM
I think the Knicks would be better if they picked one pure scorer between AMare and Melo and built a team and playing style around one of them that made some sense. If you took Melo or AMare out of that lineup and put in a guy like Rondo, or Kyle Lowry, or Steve Nash, and inserted a reliable jumpshooter with a defensive lean into the starting spot vacated by the departed player, you're closer to 8-3 than you are 6-5.

definitely agree, and thats why I think the knicks were much better before the trade for melo...you had amare be "the man" but then had solid roleplayers around him like gallinari, felton etc.

I also think losing billups hurts them because he provides a stabilizer on the court...IMO Tyson chandler is a solid roleplayer but over-rated for what they are paying him. the guy has only had 1 really good season...last year

See but even that team built around Amare was fundementally a .500 or so club.

Pos raises a good point, in that they went out there and got a top-20 player in Melo. Anytime you can do that, you should. Its not a flawless rule of thumb, but as far as generalizations go, its pretty solid.

Now though I think they are going to have the hard choice of moving either Amare or Melo at some point to make a team, instead of an amalgamation of talent. A solid starting PG (like even say a Ty Lawson or Jameer Nelson) would do wonders here, but they're faced instead with playing a promising player in Shumpert who isn't a true point, or hoping Baron Davis can stop his escalating beard growing career and play some basketball.
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Re: would the knicks be better without the Melo trade?
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2012, 02:50:07 PM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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Quote from: PosImpos on January 14, 2012, 02:22:37 PM
Give them a true point guard and a decent bench and they'd be a heck of a lot better. 

The Melo trade was smart . . . it might not have made them better in the short term (hard to say), but anytime you can get one transcendent player, you do it. 

The Knicks can fill their team with productive role players over the next couple of years to replace what they gave up.  But they couldn't have gotten a superstar like Melo except by trading for him.

I agree - in and of itself the trade probably set them back.  But they have the foundation to be much better than they did before the deal. 

I think the next thing they need to do is try to move Amar'e for another star or some quality pieces - without a great PG to feed him he's a ballstopper like Melo.  I don't think NY will do it, though.
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Re: would the knicks be better without the Melo trade?
« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2012, 03:06:54 PM »

Offline BballTim

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Quote from: PosImpos on January 14, 2012, 02:22:37 PM
Give them a true point guard and a decent bench and they'd be a heck of a lot better. 

The Melo trade was smart . . . it might not have made them better in the short term (hard to say), but anytime you can get one transcendent player, you do it. 

The Knicks can fill their team with productive role players over the next couple of years to replace what they gave up.  But they couldn't have gotten a superstar like Melo except by trading for him.

  Bird, Magic, Jordan, Duncan, Shaq, Kobe and the like. Melo's more like a Nique.
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Re: would the knicks be better without the Melo trade?
« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2012, 03:09:57 PM »

Offline PosImpos

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Quote from: BballTim on January 14, 2012, 03:06:54 PM
Quote from: PosImpos on January 14, 2012, 02:22:37 PM
Give them a true point guard and a decent bench and they'd be a heck of a lot better. 

The Melo trade was smart . . . it might not have made them better in the short term (hard to say), but anytime you can get one transcendent player, you do it. 

The Knicks can fill their team with productive role players over the next couple of years to replace what they gave up.  But they couldn't have gotten a superstar like Melo except by trading for him.

  Bird, Magic, Jordan, Duncan, Shaq, Kobe and the like. Melo's more like a Nique.


Sure, nobody's saying Melo is a going to be a top 20 all-time player.

But you'd rather have a Dominique than a Wilson Chandler and a Danilo Gallinari.
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Re: would the knicks be better without the Melo trade?
« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2012, 03:10:08 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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Quote from: fairweatherfan on January 14, 2012, 02:50:07 PM
Quote from: PosImpos on January 14, 2012, 02:22:37 PM
Give them a true point guard and a decent bench and they'd be a heck of a lot better.  

The Melo trade was smart . . . it might not have made them better in the short term (hard to say), but anytime you can get one transcendent player, you do it.  

The Knicks can fill their team with productive role players over the next couple of years to replace what they gave up.  But they couldn't have gotten a superstar like Melo except by trading for him.

I agree - in and of itself the trade probably set them back.  But they have the foundation to be much better than they did before the deal.  

I think the next thing they need to do is try to move Amar'e for another star or some quality pieces - without a great PG to feed him he's a ballstopper like Melo.  I don't think NY will do it, though.

I wonder who they would get even if they did?  
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Re: would the knicks be better without the Melo trade?
« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2012, 03:43:52 PM »

Online Moranis

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Quote from: PosImpos on January 14, 2012, 03:09:57 PM
Quote from: BballTim on January 14, 2012, 03:06:54 PM
Quote from: PosImpos on January 14, 2012, 02:22:37 PM
Give them a true point guard and a decent bench and they'd be a heck of a lot better. 

The Melo trade was smart . . . it might not have made them better in the short term (hard to say), but anytime you can get one transcendent player, you do it. 

The Knicks can fill their team with productive role players over the next couple of years to replace what they gave up.  But they couldn't have gotten a superstar like Melo except by trading for him.

  Bird, Magic, Jordan, Duncan, Shaq, Kobe and the like. Melo's more like a Nique.


Sure, nobody's saying Melo is a going to be a top 20 all-time player.

But you'd rather have a Dominique than a Wilson Chandler and a Danilo Gallinari.
but would you rather have a Melo than a Wilson Chandler, Danilo Gallinar, Raymond Felton, Timofey Mozgov, Anthony Randolph, 2014 first, 2012 second, 2013 second, and the lesser of the Denver/NY first in 2016

I mean that is the trade essentially because the Knicks let Billups, Carter, Brewer, Williams, and Balkman all go for nothing.  Hell they exercised Billups option and then amnestied him 6 months later without him playing a single game.
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Re: would the knicks be better without the Melo trade?
« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2012, 03:57:13 PM »

Offline PosImpos

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Quote from: Moranis on January 14, 2012, 03:43:52 PM
Quote from: PosImpos on January 14, 2012, 03:09:57 PM
Quote from: BballTim on January 14, 2012, 03:06:54 PM
Quote from: PosImpos on January 14, 2012, 02:22:37 PM
Give them a true point guard and a decent bench and they'd be a heck of a lot better. 

The Melo trade was smart . . . it might not have made them better in the short term (hard to say), but anytime you can get one transcendent player, you do it. 

The Knicks can fill their team with productive role players over the next couple of years to replace what they gave up.  But they couldn't have gotten a superstar like Melo except by trading for him.

  Bird, Magic, Jordan, Duncan, Shaq, Kobe and the like. Melo's more like a Nique.


Sure, nobody's saying Melo is a going to be a top 20 all-time player.

But you'd rather have a Dominique than a Wilson Chandler and a Danilo Gallinari.
but would you rather have a Melo than a Wilson Chandler, Danilo Gallinar, Raymond Felton, Timofey Mozgov, Anthony Randolph, 2014 first, 2012 second, 2013 second, and the lesser of the Denver/NY first in 2016

I mean that is the trade essentially because the Knicks let Billups, Carter, Brewer, Williams, and Balkman all go for nothing.  Hell they exercised Billups option and then amnestied him 6 months later without him playing a single game.


Yes, I'd rather have Melo than those things.  If you can trade non-superstars for a superstar, you do it.
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Re: would the knicks be better without the Melo trade?
« Reply #12 on: January 14, 2012, 04:11:26 PM »

Offline BballTim

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Quote from: PosImpos on January 14, 2012, 03:09:57 PM
Quote from: BballTim on January 14, 2012, 03:06:54 PM
Quote from: PosImpos on January 14, 2012, 02:22:37 PM
Give them a true point guard and a decent bench and they'd be a heck of a lot better. 

The Melo trade was smart . . . it might not have made them better in the short term (hard to say), but anytime you can get one transcendent player, you do it. 

The Knicks can fill their team with productive role players over the next couple of years to replace what they gave up.  But they couldn't have gotten a superstar like Melo except by trading for him.

  Bird, Magic, Jordan, Duncan, Shaq, Kobe and the like. Melo's more like a Nique.


Sure, nobody's saying Melo is a going to be a top 20 all-time player.

But you'd rather have a Dominique than a Wilson Chandler and a Danilo Gallinari.

  Probably true, but I wouldn't call someone who's arguably a top 10 player in the league transcendent.
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Re: would the knicks be better without the Melo trade?
« Reply #13 on: January 14, 2012, 04:19:02 PM »

Offline PosImpos

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Quote from: BballTim on January 14, 2012, 04:11:26 PM
Quote from: PosImpos on January 14, 2012, 03:09:57 PM
Quote from: BballTim on January 14, 2012, 03:06:54 PM
Quote from: PosImpos on January 14, 2012, 02:22:37 PM
Give them a true point guard and a decent bench and they'd be a heck of a lot better. 

The Melo trade was smart . . . it might not have made them better in the short term (hard to say), but anytime you can get one transcendent player, you do it. 

The Knicks can fill their team with productive role players over the next couple of years to replace what they gave up.  But they couldn't have gotten a superstar like Melo except by trading for him.

  Bird, Magic, Jordan, Duncan, Shaq, Kobe and the like. Melo's more like a Nique.


Sure, nobody's saying Melo is a going to be a top 20 all-time player.

But you'd rather have a Dominique than a Wilson Chandler and a Danilo Gallinari.

  Probably true, but I wouldn't call someone who's arguably a top 10 player in the league transcendent.

As a scorer, Melo is definitely transcendent.
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Re: would the knicks be better without the Melo trade?
« Reply #14 on: January 14, 2012, 04:27:45 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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Quote from: PosImpos on January 14, 2012, 04:19:02 PM
Quote from: BballTim on January 14, 2012, 04:11:26 PM
Quote from: PosImpos on January 14, 2012, 03:09:57 PM
Quote from: BballTim on January 14, 2012, 03:06:54 PM
Quote from: PosImpos on January 14, 2012, 02:22:37 PM
Give them a true point guard and a decent bench and they'd be a heck of a lot better. 

The Melo trade was smart . . . it might not have made them better in the short term (hard to say), but anytime you can get one transcendent player, you do it. 

The Knicks can fill their team with productive role players over the next couple of years to replace what they gave up.  But they couldn't have gotten a superstar like Melo except by trading for him.

  Bird, Magic, Jordan, Duncan, Shaq, Kobe and the like. Melo's more like a Nique.


Sure, nobody's saying Melo is a going to be a top 20 all-time player.

But you'd rather have a Dominique than a Wilson Chandler and a Danilo Gallinari.

  Probably true, but I wouldn't call someone who's arguably a top 10 player in the league transcendent.

As a scorer, Melo is definitely transcendent.

I also disagree. As a scorer, Carmelo Anthony is elite talent, but inefficient. Transcendent? He's a middling jumpshooter whose biggest asset is that he's flat out stronger than just about any wing outside of LeBron James in basketball, and handles the ball especially well for a guy his size and position.

If you want to judge off of his career and not on this year, he's a top 20, maybe top 15 player in basketball. If you're only going on this year he's maybe a top 30.

As a complete player, he's no transcendent talent.
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