Who's with Them? Who's Fair Weather?

[Celtics18]

It may be the green koolaid that I drink on a daily basis, but I think they are going to turn it around any day now.  I think they have the talent.  They aren't THAT old and they have a very good bench.  It's only a matter of learning their roles and putting it together. 

Yes.  That's a beautiful post.  I'll raise a glass of that green koolaid to you as I watch and cheer for our Celtics tonight, still believing they can turn this thing around. 

[tyrone biggums]

It may be the green koolaid that I drink on a daily basis, but I think they are going to turn it around any day now.  I think they have the talent.  They aren't THAT old and they have a very good bench.  It's only a matter of learning their roles and putting it together. 

Yes.  That's a beautiful post.  I'll raise a glass of that green koolaid to you as I watch and cheer for our Celtics tonight, still believing they can turn this thing around. 

Couldn't have said it any better myself. Keep the faith!

[Tgro]

I am with them.  I have no problem with constructive criticism, but the lack of a belief in their ability to turn around baffles me, quite honestly.  People act like they didn't have a stretch where they went 4-6 in 2010, when they came within a freak injury and a few cheap possessions of winning a championship.

KG, Pierce and Ray Allen have done nothing but given their all since the minute they became Celtics.  I hate to be the bearer of bad news people, but look down the road a few years; what players do you see out there who could possibly replace these guys?  Even if we bring in talented, high-character players, chances are they won't win us a championship.  Why not put our faith in the guys we have here, who have done it before?  I know I will...

Exactly!!!

Even the elite teams of today are on shaky ground and 1 bad play away from being pretenders. We looked exactly like they did 1 year ago and wound up a 2nd round exit. We could easily trade places with those team's situations by the end of the season and come in peaking while they come in struggling and unhealthy (it can happen).

Pass the Green Kool-Aid because I fail to believe that these guys won't get their act together and turn it around by season's end. Does that mean I don't see the writing on the wall like the rest of you and realize the end is near? Certainly not, I see it. But we ain't out of this by any means yet and I believe in the character and talent of these guys that they'll get their act together and give us at least a little optimism before this season ends.

[DKClassic]

I'm in, Wallace.

[EJPLAYA]

That this comes from KG really makes me sick. The KG I remember would have jumped at a ball that was off him and slowly trickling out of bounds last night. Instead, he just kind of watched it roll out of bounds.

Maybe KG should look at the efforts being given by this team right now before he starts throwing his fan base under the bus.

Where's the boxing out? Where's the help defense? Where's the running up the court on the fast break? Where's the defensive tenacity and offensive cohesion? Where's the effort?

How about you answer those questions KG before questioning the hearts and minds of the people who shell out huge bucks to go to the Garden after a work stoppage in the NBA which demonstrated that neither the owners nor players gave a rat's ass about the fans. Well, those fans are still banging out the Garden 18000+ strong, KG. Where have you been?

Well said Nick TP!

At times during that game I hoped some boos were getting the point across. We;re not philly or NYC or LA where we boo because they are losing, they're booing because they are not playing celtics basketball. the first 1/2-2/3 game were horrific to watch. Where were the rebounds and defense? NM the offense.

This is a die hard fan base. We are behind them all the way, but at what point does love and support stop and a firm kick to the butt is needed. I won;t stop watching games because we started a shortened season in dismal fashion, but something needs to be done here. (sorry no crazy trade ideas from me)

I agree with both of you. I have no problem at all being behind them when they are losing. I do however have a big problem standing behind them when they are playing LIKE losers. When you refuse to give the effort that you have in the past then you deserve to be booed. It is very clear that there are guys out there that are not giving it the intensity that they have in the past. KG and PP and JO are clearly in that category lately. I never though I'd ever see the day with KG that he would play that way. If these leaders can't give it everything they have, even though that isn't to the level of play it once was, then they need to step aside. Taking up space and not giving it your all is playing like a loser. Stop pointing fingers and get out there and give it everything and you will get the support win OR lose.

[Q_FBE]

I feel good all over reading this thread........

We are the Boston Celtics......

[size=16]

B

C

P

[/size][/color]

I wanted the letters to come out better.

[SHAQATTACK]

That this comes from KG really makes me sick. The KG I remember would have jumped at a ball that was off him and slowly trickling out of bounds last night. Instead, he just kind of watched it roll out of bounds.

Maybe KG should look at the efforts being given by this team right now before he starts throwing his fan base under the bus.

Where's the boxing out? Where's the help defense? Where's the running up the court on the fast break? Where's the defensive tenacity and offensive cohesion? Where's the effort?

How about you answer those questions KG before questioning the hearts and minds of the people who shell out huge bucks to go to the Garden after a work stoppage in the NBA which demonstrated that neither the owners nor players gave a rat's ass about the fans. Well, those fans are still banging out the Garden 18000+ strong, KG. Where have you been?

Well said Nick TP!

At times during that game I hoped some boos were getting the point across. We;re not philly or NYC or LA where we boo because they are losing, they're booing because they are not playing celtics basketball. the first 1/2-2/3 game were horrific to watch. Where were the rebounds and defense? NM the offense.

This is a die hard fan base. We are behind them all the way, but at what point does love and support stop and a firm kick to the butt is needed. I won;t stop watching games because we started a shortened season in dismal fashion, but something needs to be done here. (sorry no crazy trade ideas from me)

I agree with both of you. I have no problem at all being behind them when they are losing. I do however have a big problem standing behind them when they are playing LIKE losers. When you refuse to give the effort that you have in the past then you deserve to be booed. It is very clear that there are guys out there that are not giving it the intensity that they have in the past. KG and PP and JO are clearly in that category lately. I never though I'd ever see the day with KG that he would play that way. If these leaders can't give it everything they have, even though that isn't to the level of play it once was, then they need to step aside. Taking up space and not giving it your all is playing like a loser. Stop pointing fingers and get out there and give it everything and you will get the support win OR lose.

Good comments !!   What I'm seeing as well

[JBcat]

I'm with them. They aren't in their basketball graves just yet.  I feel there will be a big run of wins for this team at some point.

[BASS_THUMPER]

I'm with them. They aren't in their basketball graves just yet.  I feel there will be a big run of wins for this team at some point.

soon it will *click*

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

Call me a bandwagon fan b/c I followed Shaq, pfft! I never give up and I'll be cheering whether we win or lose! Heck, I still bought League Pass w/o Shaq being here (I don't even watch it other than the Celts games or pass by and see other scores)! I'm a CELTICS fan now that Shaq has retired, I like certain players but I am going to support the team whether management makes changes (of the people I like) or not! Win or lose I'll be here! I will get ticked off from time to time because I know what those guys can do (I'll probably say some outrageous things in anger) but guaranteed, if we lose 15 in a row, I'll still be here saying something like, if we win all our games from here in we can still make the playoffs LOL and I'll be dead serious about it (thank God that I can hope for the best even when things look a mess)!! I was still cheering on Tiger Woods during his two year drought (waking up at wee hrs in the morning to watch his terrible playing)... so, I don't abandon ship when things don't look rosy! Heck, I have been a fan of The Tampa Bucs since I can remember, if I can still cheer through that, this is nothing to get my panties in a bunch over!



S/N: Miami only has two less losses than we do, who have they beaten? Us and Dallas, well we aren't good and they beat Dallas when EVERYONE could beat them! So, who, the Hawks and Indiana?? Well, if we beat Indiana tonight, all they will have on us is the Hawks (they barely won)... the Hawks probably didn't even take them serious WITHOUT both Brinda and Wade!!

[guava_wrench]

KG will eventually retire but we will still be sticking with the team, so I'm not sure a player gets to talk about which fans are fair-weather.

[Roy H.]

That this comes from KG really makes me sick. The KG I remember would have jumped at a ball that was off him and slowly trickling out of bounds last night. Instead, he just kind of watched it roll out of bounds.

Maybe KG should look at the efforts being given by this team right now before he starts throwing his fan base under the bus.

Where's the boxing out? Where's the help defense? Where's the running up the court on the fast break? Where's the defensive tenacity and offensive cohesion? Where's the effort?

How about you answer those questions KG before questioning the hearts and minds of the people who shell out huge bucks to go to the Garden after a work stoppage in the NBA which demonstrated that neither the owners nor players gave a rat's ass about the fans. Well, those fans are still banging out the Garden 18000+ strong, KG. Where have you been?

I agree, as well.  KG called the fans out last year, too, when the team was playing like crap.  Where's the personal accountability?

I'll be rooting for the team, win or lose.  I'll be watching the games, win or lose.  However, it's hard to see players whining about fan support when they're just not showing up for games.  It's one thing when the shots just aren't falling, but when the players are out of shape and the effort doesn't appear to be there, it's hard to have a lot of sympathy.

[guava_wrench]

That this comes from KG really makes me sick. The KG I remember would have jumped at a ball that was off him and slowly trickling out of bounds last night. Instead, he just kind of watched it roll out of bounds.

Maybe KG should look at the efforts being given by this team right now before he starts throwing his fan base under the bus.

Where's the boxing out? Where's the help defense? Where's the running up the court on the fast break? Where's the defensive tenacity and offensive cohesion? Where's the effort?

How about you answer those questions KG before questioning the hearts and minds of the people who shell out huge bucks to go to the Garden after a work stoppage in the NBA which demonstrated that neither the owners nor players gave a rat's ass about the fans. Well, those fans are still banging out the Garden 18000+ strong, KG. Where have you been?

Well said Nick TP!

At times during that game I hoped some boos were getting the point across. We;re not philly or NYC or LA where we boo because they are losing, they're booing because they are not playing celtics basketball. the first 1/2-2/3 game were horrific to watch. Where were the rebounds and defense? NM the offense.

This is a die hard fan base. We are behind them all the way, but at what point does love and support stop and a firm kick to the butt is needed. I won;t stop watching games because we started a shortened season in dismal fashion, but something needs to be done here. (sorry no crazy trade ideas from me)

Boston sports is no more classy than NY. Talking about "Celtics basketball" really doesn't mean anything. People are booing when they lose. If the teams doesn't play this fictitious "Celtics basketball" but they win, no one boos.

Booing a lack of rebounds is just another example of booing results you don't like.

I have never booed the Celtics because I don't get the point. The team knows quite well that they are having problems. And anyone who is surprised by this wasn't realistic about the possible outcomes with out team at this point. We don't have individuals who can take over while we are out of sync. We don't have a Rose, a Kobe or a Lebron, particularly with Pierce out of shape and recovering from the heal injury.

I think we should look at KG to get an idea what is wrong. I don't buy for a second that KG isn't trying to do all he can at all moments. His body just isn't on board with his mind. People like to read into this to disparage his character or the character of other disappointing players, but KG has way too long of a track record for me to believe such interpretations.

[CoachBo]

While I am always with them, I HATE that quote.  I am sure it is taken out of context, but it just comes across as whining to me.

Honestly, with the kind of effort they have put out, I don't think I would consider fans fair weather if they didn't want to watch them or cheer for them right now.  

There comes a point where a team is just no longer fun to watch, and they are coming awfully close to that point.  And its not about winning, it is about playing the right way, and matching your talk with action.  

I am not giving up on this team yet, there is too much talent to not turn things around IMO.  But, I really hope they don't start turning anything around on to the fans, if they continue to play like a highschool JV team.

Good post.

I always looked at my teams twice, essentially: What's wrong that I can fix, by tweaking the lineup, by a position change, by better health, etc?

And what's wrong that I can't fix, what are the systemic issues that simply cannot be overcome?

It's hard to know the exact answers until you're in the locker room, but here are a few things I think I think based on the level of play on the floor.

1. I'm most discouraged by the absolute lack of conditioning and ineptitude from Garnett and Pierce. It could be conditioning - or they both could be cooked. The possibility that both are done cannot be discarded.

2. Besides some defense at the guard position and Bass' shooting, I don't share Doc's fascination with the bench. They can't score.

3. And neither can the first group, which is a serious issue that seems to be growing with every loss. There's no instant offense on this team, no one who can take a ballgame over offensively. And certainly the defense isn't good enough to create much offense, either.
 As a result, as the Big 3 decline as scorers, we have no margin whatsoever for error. It should be plain as day to everyone now that - despite Rondo's solid start - Ainge was right as rain looking for a big-time scorer at the point.

4. Please, drop the cries for more minutes for Stiemsma, Moore and Johnson. Just because they're new, doesn't make them solutions. Steamer isn't an offensive threat. And Moore and Johnson have looked absolutely lost in their limited minutes. The most painful part of this horrific start is the notion that we're back on this blog to turning every Tom, Dick and Harry who puts on the green - or Patrick or Brandon or Gerald - into the next number headed into the rafters. It's an exercise in futility that pains me.

I am not at all optimistic at this point. As I said over the summer, we were going to have to address the scoring declines from Garnett, Pierce and Allen - and Ray is the only one who's shown any sign of life - or the skid would worsen. People seem to have forgotten how Miami just choked the offensive life out of us in the playoffs.

Now, everyone's doing it and the reality might be that it's just gone.

[jacksmedulaoblongata]

I'm with this franchise 100% no matter what, but #18 is gonna come with a much different roster than this one.