Shaq is a mason

[kozlodoev]

Really? What do you know about it. Can you say for sure it's not?

I know everything about it. You can go ahead and explain how there is a secret cabal that plans to install a new world order. We all here are overdue for a good chuckle.

Riiight.  You chuckle while you become a slave along with the rest of us.

Something like that, yeah. 

[ianboyextreme]

Look to the origin. The person who started christianity never preached violence or homophobia.

Pfff, where do I start?

""And he [Jesus] said unto them ... Ye reject the commandment of God ... For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death." (Mark 7:10)

"That servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes." (Luke 12:47)

"If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned." (John 15:6)

I'm too lazy to look for more. But contrary to popular belief, the Bible, much as any other religious document, was an item with political agenda: to consolidate the population through fear of the unknown, and justify war. Sadly, despite all human progress, this function of religion persists.

1. Moses said that, not Jesus. If you read that whole passage, Jesus is quoting Moses to show the pharisees he was with, how they were being hippocrites.

"10For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:

 11But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.

 12And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;

 13Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye."
2. Using an example that would be familiar to the inhabitants of roman occupied levant is not preaching violence. That situation is one israelites of that time were familiar with.
He is not telling them to practice beating your servants. He is showing them what happens in their world, and saying that likewise, if you stray from the path of god, you will suffer.

3. Once again, not preaching violence. Jesus is stating what happens to the soul if you do not learn his truth (You probably disagree with that as well, but the point here is whether or not Jesus is preaching violence). If a friend says to another friend, "if you continue to be a sex addict, your life is going to fall apart". Is that friend preaching the destruction of peoples lives? No, hes just stating the effect of his friend continuing to be a sex addict.

I dont see how one can convince themself that someone who said this
"A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another. By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another."

or this

"But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return; and your reward in heaven will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High; for He Himself is kind to ungrateful and evil men."

was trying to justify war.

[Chris]

OK OK, I think the religion discussion has run its course.  This is the Celtics forum, so this is not the place to discuss religion. 

[kozlodoev]

OK OK, I think the religion discussion has run its course.  This is the Celtics forum, so this is not the place to discuss religion. 

Bububut... we were just starting to have fun 

[ianboyextreme]

"LUCIFER, the Light-bearer! Strange
and mysterious name to give to the
Spirit of Darknesss! Lucifer, the Son
of the Morning! Is it he who  
bears the Light, and with its
splendors intolerable blinds feeble,  
sensual or selfish Souls ? Doubt it
not!"- Albert Pike, founder of the scottish rite of freemasonry, the largest sect in the world.

The origin of freemasonry however, preaches the worship of lucifer, which you may not think is bad, but the point of my arguement is that occultism is the basis of freemasonry.

The above quote isn't worshiping Lucifer, at least in that context.

The quote calls him "the spirit of darkness", and says he uses the intolerable splendors he possesses to blind the feeble, sensual, and selfish.  Additionally, in Latin, "Lucifer" means "light bearer".  According to wikipedia, "In 2 Peter 1:19 and elsewhere, the same Latin word lucifer is used to refer to the Morning Star, with no relation to the Devil. In Revelation 22:16, Jesus himself is called the Morning Star, but not "Lucifer", even in Latin."

I don't know exactly what the quote means, but it seems more in line with Christian thought than it does anything sinister.

Exactly right ... this is just a statement about Lucifer's use of light to fool the feeble-minded, meaning using the appearance of good to disguise evil, not at all in reference to worshiping him. Lucifer was God's number one angel, the "Angel of Light", before he fell from heaven, and used his knowledge of heaven's gifts and God's blessings to fool those weak in their convictions. Jesus referenced this as well, how many would come doing miracles in His name, and using the light to fool men into darkness. That's what Pike is referencing with this passage, warning of Lucifer's tactics, and not to be taken in by them.

Here is a quote from another 33rd degree mason, Manly P. Hall

"The day has come when Fellow Craftsman must know and apply their knowledge.  The lost key to their grade is the mastery of emotion , which places the energy of the universe at their disposal.  Man can only expect to be entrusted with great power by proving his ability to use it constructively and selflessly.  When the Mason learns that the key to the warrior on the block is the proper application of the dynamo of living power, he has learned the mystery of his Craft.  The seething energies of Lucifer are in his hands, and before he may step onward and upward, he must prove his ability to properly apply energy.  He must follow in the footsteps of his forefather, Tubal-Cain, who with the mighty strength of the war god hammered his sword into a plowshare." -[Manly P. Hall, 33rd Degree, K.T., The Lost Keys of Freemasonry or The Secret of Hiram Abiff , Forward by Reynold E. Blight, 33rd Degree, K.T., Illustrations by J. Augustus Knapp, 32nd Degree, Macoy Publishing and Masonic Supply Company, Inc., Richmond, Virginia, p. 48; Emphasis Added]

[ianboyextreme]

"LUCIFER, the Light-bearer! Strange
and mysterious name to give to the
Spirit of Darknesss! Lucifer, the Son
of the Morning! Is it he who  
bears the Light, and with its
splendors intolerable blinds feeble,  
sensual or selfish Souls ? Doubt it
not!"- Albert Pike, founder of the scottish rite of freemasonry, the largest sect in the world.

The origin of freemasonry however, preaches the worship of lucifer, which you may not think is bad, but the point of my arguement is that occultism is the basis of freemasonry.

The above quote isn't worshiping Lucifer, at least in that context.

The quote calls him "the spirit of darkness", and says he uses the intolerable splendors he possesses to blind the feeble, sensual, and selfish.  Additionally, in Latin, "Lucifer" means "light bearer".  According to wikipedia, "In 2 Peter 1:19 and elsewhere, the same Latin word lucifer is used to refer to the Morning Star, with no relation to the Devil. In Revelation 22:16, Jesus himself is called the Morning Star, but not "Lucifer", even in Latin."

I don't know exactly what the quote means, but it seems more in line with Christian thought than it does anything sinister.

I posted the same thing to another poster, but here is a quote from Manly P. Hall, another 33rd degree mason

"The day has come when Fellow Craftsman must know and apply their knowledge.  The lost key to their grade is the mastery of emotion , which places the energy of the universe at their disposal.  Man can only expect to be entrusted with great power by proving his ability to use it constructively and selflessly.  When the Mason learns that the key to the warrior on the block is the proper application of the dynamo of living power, he has learned the mystery of his Craft.  The seething energies of Lucifer are in his hands, and before he may step onward and upward, he must prove his ability to properly apply energy.  He must follow in the footsteps of his forefather, Tubal-Cain, who with the mighty strength of the war god hammered his sword into a plowshare." -[Manly P. Hall, 33rd Degree, K.T., The Lost Keys of Freemasonry or The Secret of Hiram Abiff , Forward by Reynold E. Blight, 33rd Degree, K.T., Illustrations by J. Augustus Knapp, 32nd Degree, Macoy Publishing and Masonic Supply Company, Inc., Richmond, Virginia, p. 48; Emphasis Added]

[ianboyextreme]

"LUCIFER, the Light-bearer! Strange
and mysterious name to give to the
Spirit of Darknesss! Lucifer, the Son
of the Morning! Is it he who  
bears the Light, and with its
splendors intolerable blinds feeble,  
sensual or selfish Souls ? Doubt it
not!"- Albert Pike, founder of the scottish rite of freemasonry, the largest sect in the world.

The origin of freemasonry however, preaches the worship of lucifer, which you may not think is bad, but the point of my arguement is that occultism is the basis of freemasonry.

The above quote isn't worshiping Lucifer, at least in that context.

The quote calls him "the spirit of darkness", and says he uses the intolerable splendors he possesses to blind the feeble, sensual, and selfish.  Additionally, in Latin, "Lucifer" means "light bearer".  According to wikipedia, "In 2 Peter 1:19 and elsewhere, the same Latin word lucifer is used to refer to the Morning Star, with no relation to the Devil. In Revelation 22:16, Jesus himself is called the Morning Star, but not "Lucifer", even in Latin."

I don't know exactly what the quote means, but it seems more in line with Christian thought than it does anything sinister.

Exactly right ... this is just a statement about Lucifer's use of light to fool the feeble-minded, meaning using the appearance of good to disguise evil, not at all in reference to worshiping him. Lucifer was God's number one angel, the "Angel of Light", before he fell from heaven, and used his knowledge of heaven's gifts and God's blessings to fool those weak in their convictions. Jesus referenced this as well, how many would come doing miracles in His name, and using the light to fool men into darkness. That's what Pike is referencing with this passage, warning of Lucifer's tactics, and not to be taken in by them.

"Masonry, like all the Religions, all the Mysteries, Hermeticism and Alchemy, conceals its secrets from all except the Adepts and Sages, or the Elect, and uses false explanations and misinterpretations of its symbols to mislead those who deserve only to be misled; to conceal the Truth, which it calls Light, from them, and to draw them away from it. Truth is not for those who are unworthy or unable to receive it, or would pervert it...." -Albert Pike