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Celtics should rebuild now
« on: December 09, 2011, 10:39:59 AM »

Offline Moranis

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Trade Rondo something like Collison, Hibbert, and George (frankly I'd do this regardless of any other moves)

Trade Garnett something like this Hinrich and Josh Smith

Trade Allen something like this Korver, (Asik and Bogans for dollars), 1st, future 1st

Trade Pierce something like this Kaman, Aminu, Minny 1st (top 3 protected as I think that is the only way LAC would agree to give it up)

Now is the time to start over.  It is apparent the Celtics only shot of competing long term is to go into full bore rebuilding this year to try and utilize the assets and get as many draft picks and young players as possible.

This year the rotation would be with those trades (late lottery type team)

PG - Collison, Hinrich, Bogans
SG - Korver, Hinrich, Bradley
SF - George, Aminu
PF - Smith, O'Neal
C - Kaman, Hibbert, O'Neal

Going forward you let Kaman, Hinrich, and O'Neal walk and plug in the two or three rookies from this year into the lineup in positions of need.  The C's should be able to get 3 or 4 solid players (hopefully Minny is bad but not that bad and the Celtics hit in the lottery), at least one of which should hit given the depth of the draft to pair with Smith, Hibbert, Collison, and George (even Aminu looked pretty good as a rookie last year).  The Celtics would also have cap room to add in someone else next summer. 


I am only half in jest posting this, as I think if the Celtics don't go all in right now they really should start the rebuilding train.  I don't know if any of those trades are doable or enough value, but it is those type of trades I'd be exploring hard if I'm the Celtics right now.
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Re: Celtics should rebuild now
« Reply #1 on: December 09, 2011, 10:46:24 AM »

Offline 33-00-32

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I think that no matter how many times DA says that no one is untouchable, Pierce isn't going anywhere. Other than that I could see him doing almost nothing to a total flip of the roster before this season is all done.
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Re: Celtics should rebuild now
« Reply #2 on: December 09, 2011, 11:02:09 AM »

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I liked the idea of trading Garnett to Dallas for Tyson Chandler and Pierce (plus Clips pick if necessary) to Memphis for Rudy Gay.

Begin building around Rajon Rondo, Rudy Gay and Tyson Chandler.
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Re: Celtics should rebuild now
« Reply #3 on: December 09, 2011, 11:08:58 AM »

Offline 33_Larry Legend_33

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I think Danny now heads into his toughest stretch of being a GM.  When he first began he noted everyone as "assets" - linked to this idea is that "you're movable - I'd rent if I were you..." type of thinking.  He owed none of those players anything, and as painful as it was to see a guy like Big Al dealt, Danny was going to build a champion, moving whatever player he had to.

But now the scenario is different: it's a bit harder to call proven guys like KG, Ray Allen or Pierce "assets."  Does he move a guy like KG (suggested above) who has really become the face of this team the last few years (Pierce aside)?  Or like Red Auerbach, does he show a sense of loyalty to these guys, maybe even to a fault?

I think the reason why Rondo is being thrown out there in trade talks is because he is younger, he's not a long-term veteran, and he does have trade viability in the league (young budding "star" with a pretty decent contract).

One wrong move by Danny could really hurt this team... But there is NO WAY I see Danny keeping KG, PP and Ray and stating that it's going to be a "youth move" from here on out...never happen.  He has to be torn:

- keep the older guys and try to "reload"
- blow it up and "rebuild"

I think he'll continue to "reload" and the shorter season will help this team.  Next year??  Another story, for a variety of reasons, mostly due to the salary cap situation that a Celtics team hasn't seen in many years...
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Re: Celtics should rebuild now
« Reply #4 on: December 09, 2011, 11:16:38 AM »

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I can't see Danny trading Paul Pierce at this point. I think he'll let Paul finish out his career here (so long as that continues to be Paul's wish).

But I think he'd be open to moving Garnett and/or Ray + clearly he is willing to move Rondo. 
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Re: Celtics should rebuild now
« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2011, 11:33:38 AM »

Offline Q_FBE

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Nope, I don't agree with you on this one.

The Celtics need to stay relevent because as we learned in the post Bird Parish McHale Bird Era, is takes a long time to get back to relevancy.

You are throwing your fortunes to the Lady Luck of the NBA lottery if and when Young Talent of the Next Great Player becomes available. I for one don't have time for that.

The roster presented to me on the opening post looks a like a path to irrelevency to me.
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Re: Celtics should rebuild now
« Reply #6 on: December 09, 2011, 11:57:22 AM »

Offline PAOBoston

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ugh. if i felt like Edited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline. this morning, imagine how danny ainge feels like.

i was all for trading rondo/etc for cp3. you need a superstar to be a viable contender/attractive and this team doesnt have one anymore and it doesnt seem likely that they'll have a chance at cp3/howard. as currently constituted, this team doesnt have a shot this year. they'll make the playoffs. maybe they'll win a round, and then get bounced and then big 3 can ride into the sunset together.

i honestly dont know if that makes sense for the c's or not. part of me wants to watch these guys give it one more shot (knowing the odds are stacked against them) but on the other hand i think it's time to call a spade a spade and just trade everyone (as gut wrenching as it sounds) for more expiring deals/draft picks and compile assets again and hopefully down the line we develop a star or have the ability to trade for one (like they did in 08).

it just hurts thinking about this Edited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline....


 
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Re: Celtics should rebuild now
« Reply #7 on: December 20, 2011, 02:38:27 PM »

Offline CFAN38

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there is going to be so much depth in this draft that with 2 picks in the early 20s we should get two talented players. Just look at who is projected in mock drafts at 20 and ask yourself where they would have gone in the last two drafts.

example draft.net #21 John Henson

he would have been top five 2011,top ten 2010.
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Re: Celtics should rebuild now
« Reply #8 on: December 20, 2011, 02:41:29 PM »

Offline Chris

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Can I just say that if Indy had any interest in trading Collison, George, and Hibbert for Rondo, Chris Paul would be a Celtic right now.

Just had to point that out.  Carry on.
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Re: Celtics should rebuild now
« Reply #9 on: December 20, 2011, 02:46:05 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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I'm on board with this. Rondo and Ray are the most easily moveable pieces, and Danny should start there.

If that Indy deal of Collison, Hibbert, and George is a legitimate one, start there. Do it meow.

Quote from: Chris on December 20, 2011, 02:41:29 PM
Can I just say that if Indy had any interest in trading Collison, George, and Hibbert for Rondo, Chris Paul would be a Celtic right now.

Just had to point that out.  Carry on.

I don't know what to make of this. It was never really pointed out whether or not Indy had interest here. It was floated, and the problem (in the press) was always on the NO side, not the Indy side.
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Re: Celtics should rebuild now
« Reply #10 on: December 20, 2011, 03:19:58 PM »

Offline EJPLAYA

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Quote from: Q_FBE on December 09, 2011, 11:33:38 AM
Nope, I don't agree with you on this one.

The Celtics need to stay relevent because as we learned in the post Bird Parish McHale Bird Era, is takes a long time to get back to relevancy.

You are throwing your fortunes to the Lady Luck of the NBA lottery if and when Young Talent of the Next Great Player becomes available. I for one don't have time for that.

The roster presented to me on the opening post looks a like a path to irrelevency to me.

TP for this one. I agree completely. If we think it is hard NOW to get big name free agents to come to Boston, then think how hard it will be when we are a young bunch of nobodies and rookies. This would cause another 20 yr dry spell until we magically draft another PP.

Either we trade for a sure thing younger star to a team that is a player like Ray away from serious contention, or to a team trying to clear cap space wanting an expiring contract, or we hold on and use our money to convince a tier 2 free agent to come to town and hope we draft well quickly. Blowing this thing up is insane.
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Re: Celtics should rebuild now
« Reply #11 on: December 20, 2011, 03:30:10 PM »

Offline BballTim

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Quote from: IndeedProceed on December 20, 2011, 02:46:05 PM
I'm on board with this. Rondo and Ray are the most easily moveable pieces, and Danny should start there.

If that Indy deal of Collison, Hibbert, and George is a legitimate one, start there. Do it meow.

Quote from: Chris on December 20, 2011, 02:41:29 PM
Can I just say that if Indy had any interest in trading Collison, George, and Hibbert for Rondo, Chris Paul would be a Celtic right now.

Just had to point that out.  Carry on.

I don't know what to make of this. It was never really pointed out whether or not Indy had interest here. It was floated, and the problem (in the press) was always on the NO side, not the Indy side.

  It's all wild rumors anyways. Last year they were all flying around the trade deadline, I think one of them had us trading some pieces for Battier, but Danny not doing it because he didn't want to include Erden in the deal.
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Re: Celtics should rebuild now
« Reply #12 on: December 20, 2011, 03:32:41 PM »

Offline dark_lord

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maybe its just me, but i wouldn't blow it up. let kg and ray play out their contract and go from there. i wouldnt move them for the sake of moving them.  if the team is mediocre, i'd rather watch stars past their prime, than suck and watch young guys. thats the fan in me speaking
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Re: Celtics should rebuild now
« Reply #13 on: December 20, 2011, 03:41:22 PM »

Offline Moranis

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Quote from: EJPLAYA on December 20, 2011, 03:19:58 PM
Quote from: Q_FBE on December 09, 2011, 11:33:38 AM
Nope, I don't agree with you on this one.

The Celtics need to stay relevent because as we learned in the post Bird Parish McHale Bird Era, is takes a long time to get back to relevancy.

You are throwing your fortunes to the Lady Luck of the NBA lottery if and when Young Talent of the Next Great Player becomes available. I for one don't have time for that.

The roster presented to me on the opening post looks a like a path to irrelevency to me.

TP for this one. I agree completely. If we think it is hard NOW to get big name free agents to come to Boston, then think how hard it will be when we are a young bunch of nobodies and rookies. This would cause another 20 yr dry spell until we magically draft another PP.

Either we trade for a sure thing younger star to a team that is a player like Ray away from serious contention, or to a team trying to clear cap space wanting an expiring contract, or we hold on and use our money to convince a tier 2 free agent to come to town and hope we draft well quickly. Blowing this thing up is insane.
How exactly do you propose the Celtics acquire this sure thing young star?  The Celtics don't have the assets to land a player that would currently be considered elite.  The Celtics do however have the assets to land draft picks and young players who may or may not hit their potential. 

The Celtics as presently comprised are doomed to a first or second round exit in the playoffs this season.  They have no real shot at a title without major injuries to other contending teams.  And will just waste this season when they should have been utilizing assets and looking to rebuild (next summer they lose the expiring contracts of Allen, Garnett, and O'Neal and thus can't use them).
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Re: Celtics should rebuild now
« Reply #14 on: December 20, 2011, 03:46:44 PM »

Offline BballTim

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Quote from: Moranis on December 20, 2011, 03:41:22 PM
The Celtics as presently comprised are doomed to a first or second round exit in the playoffs this season.  They have no real shot at a title without major injuries to other contending teams. 

  This is fairly nonsensical. If the Celts are healthy they're clearly contenders.


 
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