Author Topic: David Stern  (Read 13611 times)

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Re: David Stern
« Reply #30 on: November 18, 2011, 06:50:08 PM »

Offline csfansince60s

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Do the balls out in public.   There is no reason to have them behind closed doors.  Of course, the team with a new arena might not get the draw then but it would be in the open.   I am a big fan of transparency.

So, do you think it is a conspiracy that every team in the NBA is in on?  Because they all have representatives in the room for the lottery.  

To me, that is plenty of transparency, because I can say with 100% certainty that if Wyc Grosbeck was in that room, and saw the something the slightest bit sketchy, and cost his team a top 3 pick, we would hear about it, and it would not be tolerated, since it would be taking money out of his pocket.



As some poster here a while ago (I am too lazy to look it up)proffered: if the ping pong balls were weighted, it doesn't matter if cameras, the FBI, owners, auditors or King Solomon were in the room, because they wouldn't have been able to detect any impropriety, just by observing.

This poster claimed that every Celtic combination had one specific (it could have been two) number in it. If that were the case, just one ball (or two)would have to be weighted and the Celtics get screwed with no one observing anything wrong.

I don't think that this is out of the realm of reasonable possibility.

Re: David Stern
« Reply #31 on: November 18, 2011, 06:55:27 PM »

Online Roy H.

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Do the balls out in public.   There is no reason to have them behind closed doors.  Of course, the team with a new arena might not get the draw then but it would be in the open.   I am a big fan of transparency.

So, do you think it is a conspiracy that every team in the NBA is in on?  Because they all have representatives in the room for the lottery.  

To me, that is plenty of transparency, because I can say with 100% certainty that if Wyc Grosbeck was in that room, and saw the something the slightest bit sketchy, and cost his team a top 3 pick, we would hear about it, and it would not be tolerated, since it would be taking money out of his pocket.



As some poster here a while ago (I am too lazy to look it up)proffered: if the ping pong balls were weighted, it doesn't matter if cameras, the FBI, owners, auditors or King Solomon were in the room, because they wouldn't have been able to detect any impropriety, just by observing.

This poster claimed that every Celtic combination had one specific (it could have been two) number in it. If that were the case, just one ball (or two)would have to be weighted and the Celtics get screwed with no one observing anything wrong.

I don't think that this is out of the realm of reasonable possibility.

I have never understood the anti-Celtics conspiracy.  Why would Stern, or any intelligent businessman, not want the Celtics to be successful?  We're in a large market with a passionate, wealthy fanbase.  The Celtics being in contention is good for the league.


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Re: David Stern
« Reply #32 on: November 18, 2011, 06:58:42 PM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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Do the balls out in public.   There is no reason to have them behind closed doors.  Of course, the team with a new arena might not get the draw then but it would be in the open.   I am a big fan of transparency.

So, do you think it is a conspiracy that every team in the NBA is in on?  Because they all have representatives in the room for the lottery. 

To me, that is plenty of transparency, because I can say with 100% certainty that if Wyc Grosbeck was in that room, and saw the something the slightest bit sketchy, and cost his team a top 3 pick, we would hear about it, and it would not be tolerated, since it would be taking money out of his pocket.



As some poster here a while ago (I am too lazy to look it up)proffered: if the ping pong balls were weighted, it doesn't matter if cameras, the FBI, owners, auditors or King Solomon were in the room, because they wouldn't have been able to detect any impropriety, just by observing.

This poster claimed that every Celtic combination had one specific (it could have been two) number in it. If that were the case, just one ball (or two)would have to be weighted and the Celtics get screwed with no one observing anything wrong.

I don't think that this is out of the realm of reasonable possibility.

Do you really think that

- this possibility has never occurred to any of the people involved with the lottery who might be harmed by the outcome, or that, if they did think of it, they wouldn't ever try to put any safeguards in place to prevent it, and

- auditing a lottery process doesn't include testing the materials used for the draw, and

- the league would risk anyone involved in rigging the draw either coming out and ruining the league and getting everyone involved fired, sued, and prosecuted, or blackmailing the league in perpetuity? 

All of those being true sounds well out of the realm of reasonable possibility to me. 

Re: David Stern
« Reply #33 on: November 18, 2011, 07:07:25 PM »

Offline csfansince60s

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Do the balls out in public.   There is no reason to have them behind closed doors.  Of course, the team with a new arena might not get the draw then but it would be in the open.   I am a big fan of transparency.

So, do you think it is a conspiracy that every team in the NBA is in on?  Because they all have representatives in the room for the lottery.  

To me, that is plenty of transparency, because I can say with 100% certainty that if Wyc Grosbeck was in that room, and saw the something the slightest bit sketchy, and cost his team a top 3 pick, we would hear about it, and it would not be tolerated, since it would be taking money out of his pocket.



As some poster here a while ago (I am too lazy to look it up)proffered: if the ping pong balls were weighted, it doesn't matter if cameras, the FBI, owners, auditors or King Solomon were in the room, because they wouldn't have been able to detect any impropriety, just by observing.

This poster claimed that every Celtic combination had one specific (it could have been two) number in it. If that were the case, just one ball (or two)would have to be weighted and the Celtics get screwed with no one observing anything wrong.

I don't think that this is out of the realm of reasonable possibility.

Do you really think that

- this possibility has never occurred to any of the people involved with the lottery who might be harmed by the outcome, or that, if they did think of it, they wouldn't ever try to put any safeguards in place to prevent it, and

- auditing a lottery process doesn't include testing the materials used for the draw, and

- the league would risk anyone involved in rigging the draw either coming out and ruining the league and getting everyone involved fired, sued, and prosecuted, or blackmailing the league in perpetuity?  

All of those being true sounds well out of the realm of reasonable possibility to me.  

How about league knowledge of refs fixing games and the leagues alleged complicity in extending certain series for more $$$$ for everyone?

Are those also out of the realm of possibility and improbable because they would destroy the league's integrity and credibility.

I think that those two things (integrity and credibility) are in pretty short supply in the NBA.

Re: David Stern
« Reply #34 on: November 18, 2011, 08:00:40 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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I think Stern does what is best for the league as he sees it.  I think it's within the realm of possibility that the draft is manipulated from time to time.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/708075-nba-draft-lottery-is-it-fixed-for-some-or-fair-for-everyone

Some GMS do think it's fixed

http://www.sportsgrid.com/nba/david-kahn-nba-draft-fixed-video/

Finally, it is not just Celtic fans that think it could be rigged.

http://www.nbadraft.net/forum/nba-draft-lottery-rigged-how-can-it-be-fixed-0

I think the years that stick out to me are: 1985 ( Knicks get Ewing),  1997 ( we got hosed on Duncan), 2003 ( LeBron stays home in Cleveland) 2008 ( another homeboy hero D. Rose to Chi town).  Only one involved the Celtics but all these stunk to high heaven to me.

There are lots who think the league has some fishy business.   Do you believe they are losing money?  I take any Stern says with a grain of salt.

As for the refs here is the best article I have ever read of them and how they influence games.  They subsidized the Laker's win.


http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=6761

Re: David Stern
« Reply #35 on: November 18, 2011, 08:10:35 PM »

Online Roy H.

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I think the years that stick out to me are: 1997 ( we got hosed on Duncan) ... Only one involved the Celtics but all these stunk to high heaven to me.

What was wrong with the Duncan lottery?  We had something like a 35% chance of getting the first pick, meaning we had a 65% that we wouldn't get it.

If the league was going to rig the lottery, why would they put Duncan in San Antonio, rather than in a large market like Boston or Philly?  Duncan in San Antonio probably cost the league tens of millions of dollars in revenue, if not more.


I'M THE SILVERBACK GORILLA IN THIS MOTHER... AND DON'T NONE OF YA'LL EVER FORGET IT!

KP / Giannis / Turkuglu / Jrue / Curry
Sabonis / Brand / A. Thompson / Oladipo / Brunson
Jordan / Bowen

Redshirt:  Cooper Flagg

Re: David Stern
« Reply #36 on: November 18, 2011, 08:13:48 PM »

Offline StartOrien

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Do the balls out in public.   There is no reason to have them behind closed doors.  Of course, the team with a new arena might not get the draw then but it would be in the open.   I am a big fan of transparency.

So, do you think it is a conspiracy that every team in the NBA is in on?  Because they all have representatives in the room for the lottery.  

To me, that is plenty of transparency, because I can say with 100% certainty that if Wyc Grosbeck was in that room, and saw the something the slightest bit sketchy, and cost his team a top 3 pick, we would hear about it, and it would not be tolerated, since it would be taking money out of his pocket.



As some poster here a while ago (I am too lazy to look it up)proffered: if the ping pong balls were weighted, it doesn't matter if cameras, the FBI, owners, auditors or King Solomon were in the room, because they wouldn't have been able to detect any impropriety, just by observing.

This poster claimed that every Celtic combination had one specific (it could have been two) number in it. If that were the case, just one ball (or two)would have to be weighted and the Celtics get screwed with no one observing anything wrong.

I don't think that this is out of the realm of reasonable possibility.

I have never understood the anti-Celtics conspiracy.  Why would Stern, or any intelligent businessman, not want the Celtics to be successful?  We're in a large market with a passionate, wealthy fanbase.  The Celtics being in contention is good for the league.

Steeeaaarns gotta infeeeeriorrrahty cahmPLEX, cuz us Celts fans are smartah den him
« Last Edit: November 18, 2011, 10:06:40 PM by StartOrien »

Re: David Stern
« Reply #37 on: November 19, 2011, 09:08:42 AM »

Offline LB3533

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Stern is infidelity infinitely better than Bud Selig.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2011, 09:16:06 AM by LB3533 »

Re: David Stern
« Reply #38 on: November 19, 2011, 10:41:10 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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I heard rumors about practice draws about 2-3 all Celtics wins then the real one the Spurs win,  no way to prove it though.   We got 3 and 6 that year if memory serves.  San Antonio builds a new arena and they get number one, go figure.

I think Stern is equal to Selig.  The steroid scandal is probably larger than the ref scandal but as far as work stopages I think Stern has more of them under his belt.   As bad as Stern is I think Billy Hunter is just as bad if not worse.

Re: David Stern
« Reply #39 on: November 19, 2011, 10:52:40 AM »

Offline Finkelskyhook

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I have no problem with (IMHO) how the 07 draft was rigged.  I predicted it.  We got exactly what we deserved...The worst possible draft position based on the fact that our team wasn't trying to win games.  I said then that Stern should take away the pick altogether.    I didn't see that draft as an anti-Celtic thing.  I saw it as Stern sending one over the bow to the overt tankers.

When a fan pays the kind of money it costs to get to (parking anyone?) and get into an NBA game they deserve to see the best possible product that a team can put forth on that day.  Grousbeck, Ainge, and Rivers made an absolute mockery of the NBA in 06-07.

Re: David Stern
« Reply #40 on: November 19, 2011, 11:22:52 AM »

Offline Finkelskyhook

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I heard rumors about practice draws about 2-3 all Celtics wins then the real one the Spurs win,  no way to prove it though.   We got 3 and 6 that year if memory serves.  San Antonio builds a new arena and they get number one, go figure.

I think Stern is equal to Selig.  The steroid scandal is probably larger than the ref scandal but as far as work stopages I think Stern has more of them under his belt.   As bad as Stern is I think Billy Hunter is just as bad if not worse.

Stern has no equal.  Like him or not.  What he's done in his tenure is pretty extraordinary.

I doubt Stern had any idea that the Donaghy thing was going on.  But the reality is that with the birth of star calls...Starting with Jordan, Stern laid the groundwork for Donaghy.  Donaghy fit right in with what they were doing.  When basic calls become ambiguous based on personnel, it's not hard to be manipulative.  Stern also handled the Donaghy situation brilliantly...But in reality the only way he could have.  He changed nothing and pretty much didn't address it at all whenever possible.

Selig milked the obvious for years for all it was worth and got indignant when it became an issue.  Put on a complete dog and pony show using a political hack with a complete conflict of interest.  Put in "rules" that gave his stars plenty of time to get clean.  Selig, in trying to make a meaningless pickup game meaningful, has screwed up the biggest event in his sport.  

The only equal between the Donaghy scandal and the steroids scandal is that nothing relevent to the current product was "discovered" in either "investigation".

Billy Hunter is simply out of his league.  When he opens his mouth his commentary sounds the same as some of the absolute dumbest player comments during this ordeal.  As I've always believed, Fisher has no credibility whatsoever with the owners.  So this thing is going as predicted.  When you put a guy who has no credibility and a guy with limited intellect up against one of the most brilliant people in sports..The results are predictable.

Re: David Stern
« Reply #41 on: November 19, 2011, 11:58:42 AM »

Offline StartOrien

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Could you guys share with me all your David Stern conspiracy theories, please.

Re: David Stern
« Reply #42 on: November 19, 2011, 12:44:15 PM »

Offline KGs Knee

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I have no problem with (IMHO) how the 07 draft was rigged.  I predicted it.  We got exactly what we deserved...The worst possible draft position based on the fact that our team wasn't trying to win games.  I said then that Stern should take away the pick altogether.    I didn't see that draft as an anti-Celtic thing.  I saw it as Stern sending one over the bow to the overt tankers.

When a fan pays the kind of money it costs to get to (parking anyone?) and get into an NBA game they deserve to see the best possible product that a team can put forth on that day.  Grousbeck, Ainge, and Rivers made an absolute mockery of the NBA in 06-07.

I'd argue a good number of fans wanted to see us tank though.  Just the thought of getting that #1 pick can sometimes override otherwise rational thought.

Personally, I'm not at all of fan of tanking, especially considering in garauntees nothing.

Re: David Stern
« Reply #43 on: November 19, 2011, 01:28:19 PM »

Offline Finkelskyhook

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I have no problem with (IMHO) how the 07 draft was rigged.  I predicted it.  We got exactly what we deserved...The worst possible draft position based on the fact that our team wasn't trying to win games.  I said then that Stern should take away the pick altogether.    I didn't see that draft as an anti-Celtic thing.  I saw it as Stern sending one over the bow to the overt tankers.

When a fan pays the kind of money it costs to get to (parking anyone?) and get into an NBA game they deserve to see the best possible product that a team can put forth on that day.  Grousbeck, Ainge, and Rivers made an absolute mockery of the NBA in 06-07.

I'd argue a good number of fans wanted to see us tank though.  Just the thought of getting that #1 pick can sometimes override otherwise rational thought.

Personally, I'm not at all of fan of tanking, especially considering in garauntees nothing.

I wonder how many of those fans who wanted us to tank actually bought tickets when the schedule came out.

I'm willing to pay $16 to watch Kevinn Pinkney play against the Iowa Energy.  But I'm pretty freaking p---ed when I'm paying $130+parking+concessions to watch him playing for the Boston Celtics....Particularly when there are 3-4 perfectly healthy actual members of the Boston Celtics riding the bench waiting until we clinch the 2 seed.....And the franchise player most fans pay to see got put down "injured" for the rest of the season coming off one of the greatest games he ever played.

....And you're right.  It guaranteed nothing.  I think Stern took a stand.  He should have even if he didn't.


Re: David Stern
« Reply #44 on: December 09, 2011, 06:54:23 PM »

Offline Eja117

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I'm beginning to think the only way to get Stern out is to get him really drunk, then get him to talk about where all the bodies are buried, video tape it with an iphone, and put it on youtube, and even then I'm not sure

He is by far the most kingly commissioner of a major sport