Wilson Chandler signs in China without an opt-out clause

[Chris]

If you work as a COO at Microsoft should Microsoft pay you the same money a company that is a 50th the size would pay you to be a COO there?

But that's not a fair analogy, because people that work at Microsoft could use their skill set with other companies and make comparable money.

At least for the time being, if you're a professional basketball player there's only one company that can you give you SIGNIFICANTLY more money than any other place.

In this case, Wilson Chandler will be playing in China for about 1/3rd of the amount of money he'd make here.

No because if he was working for the NBA he would be making NOTHING this year.

Furthermore, if the NBA owners get their way, players like Chandler will only be making about 1/3 of what they previously were.  Basically, he got paid in China what NBA owners feel he should be getting paid, when in fact, he would deserve more than that (based on the NBA being a higher revenue generating league).

Good for Chandler for proving that he doesn't need the NBA to get paid.  I hope more players do this, the NBA owners need to get off their high horse.

This is true.  The NBA wants to pay the stars more, and the supporting players less.

Although, this is also the reason this is not going to mean that much to the owners.  It is not going to really effect them until a star does this.  Owners are not really worried about losing average players to Europe/China, because those are not the guys the fans pay to see.

The only way this could get the owners nervous, if it was just the first domino to fall, and Chandler is followed by stars signing contracts without buyouts.

Of course that is unlikely to happen, because there aren't any real stars who are not under contract at the moment...but if this lockout goes all year, and guys like Howard and Paul start considering going elsewhere, then you are going to see the owners start to worry.

[StartOrien]

If you work as a COO at Microsoft should Microsoft pay you the same money a company that is a 50th the size would pay you to be a COO there?

But that's not a fair analogy, because people that work at Microsoft could use their skill set with other companies and make comparable money.

At least for the time being, if you're a professional basketball player there's only one company that can you give you SIGNIFICANTLY more money than any other place.

In this case, Wilson Chandler will be playing in China for about 1/3rd of the amount of money he'd make here.

No because if he was working for the NBA he would be making NOTHING this year.

Furthermore, if the NBA owners get their way, players like Chandler will only be making about 1/3 of what they previously were.  Basically, he got paid in China what NBA owners feel he should be getting paid, when in fact, he would deserve more than that (based on the NBA being a higher revenue generating league).

Good for Chandler for proving that he doesn't need the NBA to get paid.  I hope more players do this, the NBA owners need to get off their high horse.

This is true.  The NBA wants to pay the stars more, and the supporting players less.

Although, this is also the reason this is not going to mean that much to the owners.  It is not going to really effect them until a star does this.  Owners are not really worried about losing average players to Europe/China, because those are not the guys the fans pay to see.

The only way this could get the owners nervous, if it was just the first domino to fall, and Chandler is followed by stars signing contracts without buyouts.

Of course that is unlikely to happen, because there aren't any real stars who are not under contract at the moment...but if this lockout goes all year, and guys like Howard and Paul start considering going elsewhere, then you are going to see the owners start to worry.

I also think that's a real low estimate on how much Chandler would potentially make based off of the owner's proposal.

[KGs Knee]

If you work as a COO at Microsoft should Microsoft pay you the same money a company that is a 50th the size would pay you to be a COO there?

But that's not a fair analogy, because people that work at Microsoft could use their skill set with other companies and make comparable money.

At least for the time being, if you're a professional basketball player there's only one company that can you give you SIGNIFICANTLY more money than any other place.

In this case, Wilson Chandler will be playing in China for about 1/3rd of the amount of money he'd make here.

No because if he was working for the NBA he would be making NOTHING this year.

Furthermore, if the NBA owners get their way, players like Chandler will only be making about 1/3 of what they previously were.  Basically, he got paid in China what NBA owners feel he should be getting paid, when in fact, he would deserve more than that (based on the NBA being a higher revenue generating league).

Good for Chandler for proving that he doesn't need the NBA to get paid.  I hope more players do this, the NBA owners need to get off their high horse.

This is true.  The NBA wants to pay the stars more, and the supporting players less.

Although, this is also the reason this is not going to mean that much to the owners.  It is not going to really effect them until a star does this.  Owners are not really worried about losing average players to Europe/China, because those are not the guys the fans pay to see.

The only way this could get the owners nervous, if it was just the first domino to fall, and Chandler is followed by stars signing contracts without buyouts.

Of course that is unlikely to happen, because there aren't any real stars who are not under contract at the moment...but if this lockout goes all year, and guys like Howard and Paul start considering going elsewhere, then you are going to see the owners start to worry.

You're absolutely right.  Losing just one "Wilson Chandler" is not going to worry the owners.  It will take quite a few more.  I don't, however, think it will nessecarily require stars to go overseas for non-opt out contracts.  If a large enough number of mid-level players leave, who would replace them.  D-leaguers?  Unproven rookies?


I think the larger point being made here is, the players ARE capable of getting paid elsewhere, even if it may be less than they concievably could get in the NBA.  Any money is more than the zero money they are getting paid during the lockout.

[Chris]

If you work as a COO at Microsoft should Microsoft pay you the same money a company that is a 50th the size would pay you to be a COO there?

But that's not a fair analogy, because people that work at Microsoft could use their skill set with other companies and make comparable money.

At least for the time being, if you're a professional basketball player there's only one company that can you give you SIGNIFICANTLY more money than any other place.

In this case, Wilson Chandler will be playing in China for about 1/3rd of the amount of money he'd make here.

No because if he was working for the NBA he would be making NOTHING this year.

Furthermore, if the NBA owners get their way, players like Chandler will only be making about 1/3 of what they previously were.  Basically, he got paid in China what NBA owners feel he should be getting paid, when in fact, he would deserve more than that (based on the NBA being a higher revenue generating league).

Good for Chandler for proving that he doesn't need the NBA to get paid.  I hope more players do this, the NBA owners need to get off their high horse.

This is true.  The NBA wants to pay the stars more, and the supporting players less.

Although, this is also the reason this is not going to mean that much to the owners.  It is not going to really effect them until a star does this.  Owners are not really worried about losing average players to Europe/China, because those are not the guys the fans pay to see.

The only way this could get the owners nervous, if it was just the first domino to fall, and Chandler is followed by stars signing contracts without buyouts.

Of course that is unlikely to happen, because there aren't any real stars who are not under contract at the moment...but if this lockout goes all year, and guys like Howard and Paul start considering going elsewhere, then you are going to see the owners start to worry.

I also think that's a real low estimate on how much Chandler would potentially make based off of the owner's proposal.

Yeah, its tough to tell, there is a lot of misinformation out there on both sides.  

The one thing that I think is pretty much clear though, the NBA salaries would still be the highest average in the country...but what remains to be seen is how that pie is broken up.  I think we could really be seeing the essential elimination of the NBA middleclass.  Everyone is going to be either making star money, or making close to the minimum.  

[StartOrien]

I think the larger point being made here is, the players ARE capable of getting paid elsewhere, even if it may be less than they concievably could get in the NBA.  Any money is more than the zero money they are getting paid during the lockout.

But the dispute isn't that they could find work elsewhere, it's that they're being paid too much.

And the best offer that a pretty good small forward (with upside!)  could get was for 1/3rd of what he'd make in the NBA

[Chris]

If you work as a COO at Microsoft should Microsoft pay you the same money a company that is a 50th the size would pay you to be a COO there?

But that's not a fair analogy, because people that work at Microsoft could use their skill set with other companies and make comparable money.

At least for the time being, if you're a professional basketball player there's only one company that can you give you SIGNIFICANTLY more money than any other place.

In this case, Wilson Chandler will be playing in China for about 1/3rd of the amount of money he'd make here.

No because if he was working for the NBA he would be making NOTHING this year.

Furthermore, if the NBA owners get their way, players like Chandler will only be making about 1/3 of what they previously were.  Basically, he got paid in China what NBA owners feel he should be getting paid, when in fact, he would deserve more than that (based on the NBA being a higher revenue generating league).

Good for Chandler for proving that he doesn't need the NBA to get paid.  I hope more players do this, the NBA owners need to get off their high horse.

This is true.  The NBA wants to pay the stars more, and the supporting players less.

Although, this is also the reason this is not going to mean that much to the owners.  It is not going to really effect them until a star does this.  Owners are not really worried about losing average players to Europe/China, because those are not the guys the fans pay to see.

The only way this could get the owners nervous, if it was just the first domino to fall, and Chandler is followed by stars signing contracts without buyouts.

Of course that is unlikely to happen, because there aren't any real stars who are not under contract at the moment...but if this lockout goes all year, and guys like Howard and Paul start considering going elsewhere, then you are going to see the owners start to worry.

You're absolutely right.  Losing just one "Wilson Chandler" is not going to worry the owners.  It will take quite a few more.  I don't, however, think it will nessecarily require stars to go overseas for non-opt out contracts.  If a large enough number of mid-level players leave, who would replace them.  D-leaguers?  Unproven rookies?


I think the larger point being made here is, the players ARE capable of getting paid elsewhere, even if it may be less than they concievably could get in the NBA.  Any money is more than the zero money they are getting paid during the lockout.

You lost me on this.  Are you saying that if a lot of mid level players go over seas on deals with no opt-out clauses, it will affect the owners side?  Or are you saying that the opt-out clauses don't matter?

[Chris]

I think the larger point being made here is, the players ARE capable of getting paid elsewhere, even if it may be less than they concievably could get in the NBA.  Any money is more than the zero money they are getting paid during the lockout.

But the dispute isn't that they could find work elsewhere, it's that they're being paid too much.

And the best offer that a pretty good small forward (with upside!)  could get was for 1/3rd of what he'd make in the NBA

Yeah, I think this helps dispell the argument that players are all going to go broke, and beg the owners for a job in November.  However, I think that was overblown anyways.  I think the majority of players saw this coming, and saved enough money to hold them over, and they will also find other ways to stay afloat during the lockout, whether it is playing overseas, or getting endorsements, etc.

What the owners are banking on though, is that the players still want to play in the NBA more than anything.  They want the higher salaries, and the prestige that the NBA gives them over these other leagues.  And, the owners aren't going to waiver on that until either a large number of quality players, or a small number of star players are willing to leave the NBA longterm, and are not going to come running back the second the lockout ends.

The owners know right now that they could show up at any time, give the players a little more of what they want, and the lockout would end, and every body (other than Chandler) would be in camp.  As long as they have that in their back pocket, they maintain the upper hand. 

[KGs Knee]

If you work as a COO at Microsoft should Microsoft pay you the same money a company that is a 50th the size would pay you to be a COO there?

But that's not a fair analogy, because people that work at Microsoft could use their skill set with other companies and make comparable money.

At least for the time being, if you're a professional basketball player there's only one company that can you give you SIGNIFICANTLY more money than any other place.

In this case, Wilson Chandler will be playing in China for about 1/3rd of the amount of money he'd make here.

No because if he was working for the NBA he would be making NOTHING this year.

Furthermore, if the NBA owners get their way, players like Chandler will only be making about 1/3 of what they previously were.  Basically, he got paid in China what NBA owners feel he should be getting paid, when in fact, he would deserve more than that (based on the NBA being a higher revenue generating league).

Good for Chandler for proving that he doesn't need the NBA to get paid.  I hope more players do this, the NBA owners need to get off their high horse.

This is true.  The NBA wants to pay the stars more, and the supporting players less.

Although, this is also the reason this is not going to mean that much to the owners.  It is not going to really effect them until a star does this.  Owners are not really worried about losing average players to Europe/China, because those are not the guys the fans pay to see.

The only way this could get the owners nervous, if it was just the first domino to fall, and Chandler is followed by stars signing contracts without buyouts.

Of course that is unlikely to happen, because there aren't any real stars who are not under contract at the moment...but if this lockout goes all year, and guys like Howard and Paul start considering going elsewhere, then you are going to see the owners start to worry.

You're absolutely right.  Losing just one "Wilson Chandler" is not going to worry the owners.  It will take quite a few more.  I don't, however, think it will nessecarily require stars to go overseas for non-opt out contracts.  If a large enough number of mid-level players leave, who would replace them.  D-leaguers?  Unproven rookies?


I think the larger point being made here is, the players ARE capable of getting paid elsewhere, even if it may be less than they concievably could get in the NBA.  Any money is more than the zero money they are getting paid during the lockout.

You lost me on this.  Are you saying that if a lot of mid level players go over seas on deals with no opt-out clauses, it will affect the owners side?  Or are you saying that the opt-out clauses don't matter?

Upon re-reading my post, even I'm not sure what I was trying to say.

I guess I was trying to say if enough mid-level players leave, and can not come back right away, the overall NBA product would be affected.  I think this might worry the owners a little.

I don't think the stars going overseas with opt-out contracts worries them too much initially.  The stars don't really need the money, can't possibly get what they can in the NBA, and would have to come back as soon as the lockout ends.

[KGs Knee]

What the owners are banking on though, is that the players still want to play in the NBA more than anything.  They want the higher salaries, and the prestige that the NBA gives them over these other leagues.  And, the owners aren't going to waiver on that until either a large number of quality players, or a small number of star players are willing to leave the NBA longterm, and are not going to come running back the second the lockout ends.

The owners know right now that they could show up at any time, give the players a little more of what they want, and the lockout would end, and every body (other than Chandler) would be in camp.  As long as they have that in their back pocket, they maintain the upper hand. 

This is a pretty spot-on assesment.  The only danger for the owners in this line of thinking, is that they alienate the players to the point where they are willing to forgoe the NBA money out of sheer principal.  Basically as a big middle finger to their faces, or, if this is how you want to treat us, then we will never play for you.  Although that is unlikely to ever happen, and would be way down the line.

[Cman]

I don't think Chandler signing with a Chinese team has much of an effect on the current negotiations.  

I do think its cool that Chandler decided to play in China, though, even though he could have made the same (roughly) money playing in Europe.  There are many potential reasons for this (including, for example, the possibility he's always wanted to live in Asia for a year or so, and now he's got the oppty).  I don't know enough about the difference in rules between European leagues and the Chinese leagues, but I wonder if he felt that his skillset was better suited to the rules in China?

[Chris]

If you work as a COO at Microsoft should Microsoft pay you the same money a company that is a 50th the size would pay you to be a COO there?

But that's not a fair analogy, because people that work at Microsoft could use their skill set with other companies and make comparable money.

At least for the time being, if you're a professional basketball player there's only one company that can you give you SIGNIFICANTLY more money than any other place.

In this case, Wilson Chandler will be playing in China for about 1/3rd of the amount of money he'd make here.

No because if he was working for the NBA he would be making NOTHING this year.

Furthermore, if the NBA owners get their way, players like Chandler will only be making about 1/3 of what they previously were.  Basically, he got paid in China what NBA owners feel he should be getting paid, when in fact, he would deserve more than that (based on the NBA being a higher revenue generating league).

Good for Chandler for proving that he doesn't need the NBA to get paid.  I hope more players do this, the NBA owners need to get off their high horse.

This is true.  The NBA wants to pay the stars more, and the supporting players less.

Although, this is also the reason this is not going to mean that much to the owners.  It is not going to really effect them until a star does this.  Owners are not really worried about losing average players to Europe/China, because those are not the guys the fans pay to see.

The only way this could get the owners nervous, if it was just the first domino to fall, and Chandler is followed by stars signing contracts without buyouts.

Of course that is unlikely to happen, because there aren't any real stars who are not under contract at the moment...but if this lockout goes all year, and guys like Howard and Paul start considering going elsewhere, then you are going to see the owners start to worry.

You're absolutely right.  Losing just one "Wilson Chandler" is not going to worry the owners.  It will take quite a few more.  I don't, however, think it will nessecarily require stars to go overseas for non-opt out contracts.  If a large enough number of mid-level players leave, who would replace them.  D-leaguers?  Unproven rookies?


I think the larger point being made here is, the players ARE capable of getting paid elsewhere, even if it may be less than they concievably could get in the NBA.  Any money is more than the zero money they are getting paid during the lockout.

You lost me on this.  Are you saying that if a lot of mid level players go over seas on deals with no opt-out clauses, it will affect the owners side?  Or are you saying that the opt-out clauses don't matter?

Upon re-reading my post, even I'm not sure what I was trying to say.

I guess I was trying to say if enough mid-level players leave, and can not come back right away, the overall NBA product would be affected.  I think this might worry the owners a little.

I don't think the stars going overseas with opt-out contracts worries them too much initially.  The stars don't really need the money, can't possibly get what they can in the NBA, and would have to come back as soon as the lockout ends.

Ah, I agree then.  

These are the things that I think would at least worry the owners, and light a bit of a fire under them:

1. A couple star players signing overseas with no opt-out (although it might take more than a 1 year deal to worry them, since they might already be assuming this season is lost anyways)
2. More than a handful of MLE type players signing deals overseas with no opt-out

Anything else, I just don't see affecting the owners.  Maybe this is strengthening the players resolve a little bit, but I don't think it is affecting the owners at all, which just means it is extending the lockout even more.

[StartOrien]

1. A couple star players signing overseas with no opt-out (although it might take more than a 1 year deal to worry them, since they might already be assuming this season is lost anyways)

But why are these stars going to go across seas when the impact on their end-dollar probably won't be all that significant? For the greater good?

I'm sure the opt out clause didn't help his bargaining ability, but Deron Williams is scheduled to make 16 million dollars this season in the NBA, if he goes to Turkey he'll be making 100,000 a month. I think he's a lunatic if he ends up going, and I'm guessing the NBA's stars would think the same.

[Chris]

1. A couple star players signing overseas with no opt-out (although it might take more than a 1 year deal to worry them, since they might already be assuming this season is lost anyways)

But why are these stars going to go across seas when the impact on their end-dollar probably won't be all that significant? For the greater good?

I'm sure the opt out clause didn't help his bargaining ability, but Deron Williams is scheduled to make 16 million dollars this season in the NBA, if he goes to Turkey he'll be making 100,000 a month. I think he's a lunatic if he ends up going, and I'm guessing the NBA's stars would think the same.

Exactly, that is why this isn't going to happen, and why the owners will continue to have the upper hand and just wait for the players to realize they can't win this.

[jdub1660]

It's interesting, but, I wonder what exactly would stop him from leaving the team if the NBA were to start up again.

Besides the stop of a paycheck, is there anything that would truly bind him to the Chinese team?

FIBA rules which the NBA has agreed to abide by, basically if he has a contract for another professional league he cannot just break that contract and go back to the NBA.

Kinda like with Rubio, Denver or w/e team offers him a contract would also have to buyout his contract with CBA right?

[Chris]

It's interesting, but, I wonder what exactly would stop him from leaving the team if the NBA were to start up again.

Besides the stop of a paycheck, is there anything that would truly bind him to the Chinese team?

FIBA rules which the NBA has agreed to abide by, basically if he has a contract for another professional league he cannot just break that contract and go back to the NBA.

Kinda like with Rubio, Denver or w/e team offers him a contract would also have to buyout his contract with CBA right?

Only if there is a buyout in the contract.  And the team is only allowed to pay $500,000 towards a buyout I believe.