2011 CB draft: How does my team look?/division rankings

[mgent]

Again, like I said he's far from an ideal 3rd guy so I really don't value him that highly, but I don't value Harden that highly either.  Are you thinking about him if he reaches his potential?

No, I think Harden is already there. He was excellent for OKC once Jeff Green left. Put him in a starting role, increase his minutes and off you go.

As a starter, I think Harden is a 16-17ppg threat with very good rebounding and playmaking ability and average defense. A very efficient scorer and overall offensive player who is a major threat both off the dribble (out of the pick and roll) and with his set jump shot (great range). Very easy to play with. Complements ball-dominant stars very well and creates shots for role players.

I agree with all that, and I agree that Harden is the better overall player.  I was just arguing that TA is on the same level and that the trade wasn't a "steal" for the Blazers, but that was before I realized IP was talking about himself (right? that's you IP?).

[indeedproceed]

Again, like I said he's far from an ideal 3rd guy so I really don't value him that highly, but I don't value Harden that highly either.  Are you thinking about him if he reaches his potential?

No, I think Harden is already there. He was excellent for OKC once Jeff Green left. Put him in a starting role, increase his minutes and off you go.

As a starter, I think Harden is a 16-17ppg threat with very good rebounding and playmaking ability and average defense. A very efficient scorer and overall offensive player who is a major threat both off the dribble (out of the pick and roll) and with his set jump shot (great range). Very easy to play with. Complements ball-dominant stars very well and creates shots for role players.

I agree with all that, and I agree that Harden is the better overall player.  I was just arguing that TA is on the same level and that the trade wasn't a "steal" for the Blazers, but that was before I realized IP was talking about himself (right? that's you IP?).

haha, I never said it was a 'steal'. I actually agree with a lot of what you've been saying. Harden is the better, more skilled player, but Tony Allen can be a very critical piece of a contender.

Regarding this trade:

Trade Announced:

Pistons send: James Harden, 9.11
Blazers send: Tony Allen, Jared Dudley

Initially it was Allen and my (at the time) 2 9ths for Harden. Evantime smartly realized that it was undervaluing Harden, so he came back with the 2 for 1, than I asked for the 9.11. Done deal.

Now, I obviously got the more talented player. Harden can simply do more, and in time, might develop into an elite player at the 2. There is a reason he was compared to Brandon Roy. Harden gives me a very potent scoring option off the wing, and a more well-rounded player than Tony Allen.

However, Tony Allen was my Kobe stopper, my LeBron stopper, and my Joe Johnson stopper. He was a critical part of my lineup, and that cannot be too overstated. THat alone should speak how big a piece Tony ALlen can be in the right setting.

The Pistons already have John Wall, DeRozen, Josh Smith, and Okafor. They don't need 17 efficient points out of Harden nearly as much as they need a defensive leader on the perimeter, or as much as they need the championship experience Tony Allen also brings. They also needed the defense a true 3 like Jared Dudley can provide so Smith can move permanently back to his more natural PF position, and Jeff Green can move to the supersub role he should have.

I think when you sub in Delfino to my lineup, both teams got better.

[mgent]

Now I can insert a "super-spacing" lineup for Iggy and Wade.

Can you take out your historic teams profile and put in one for the draft?

Yes, although I feel like that team is too good to delete.

[celticpride07]

OKC!

pg. mo williams
sg. kobe bryant/shannon brown
sf. carmelo anthony
pf. rashard lewis/ jj hickson
c.  demarcus cousins/jermaine o'neal

Your 1 and 4 are perfect fits as knock down shooters who can spread the floor for Kobe and Melo.  I still don't like Cousins.  Start JO and have Cousins play backup mintues at the 4 and 5.  I still don't like cousins on this team even in that role.  I think you want a defensive minded vet here

i think cousins is like a young bynum hungry to prove to the vets hes capable of being a beast.

[action781]

Again, like I said he's far from an ideal 3rd guy so I really don't value him that highly, but I don't value Harden that highly either.  Are you thinking about him if he reaches his potential?

As a starter, I think Harden is a 16-17ppg threat with very good rebounding and playmaking ability and average defense. A very efficient scorer and overall offensive player who is a major threat both off the dribble (out of the pick and roll) and with his set jump shot (great range). Very easy to play with. Complements ball-dominant stars very well and creates shots for role players.

Rebounding and playmaking?  In 28 mpg after the all-star break, he averaged 2.8 and 2.4 rebounds and assists per game.  I agree with the offense and the shooting threat, but I have always thought of Harden as a pretty one-dimensional player as a scorer.  (But better than most one-dimensional players in the sense that he's not necessarily a liability in other aspects, just very average to slightly below average)

[mgent]

Oh yeah, my fault, it was Who that said it was a steal.  My argument wasn't wasted after all   

[Who]

Out of the West, who did you consider a better contender than Memphis, without Gay?  I had them in the top 3 behind Dallas and OKC.

Sorry, trying to catch up with what has been happening while I was away.

I had the LA Lakers ahead of them.

The Grizzlies were a major surprise to me. I didn't think they'd beat the Spurs. I thought San An's pick and roll game would cause them more trouble than the Grizzlies big man advantage but the Grizzlies defense was very impressive and much more effective than I had given them credit for (TA playing a big role there). It was only after that first round victory when I began to look at them as a team that make a run in the playoffs.

I thought the Grizzlies would have a fighting chance against each of the three teams remaining in the West but I would have considered the others the favourite in each matchup.

Well I'm not talking about a 3 man team like Bosh on Miami, I mean on a really deep well-rounded team, like say the Mavs.  Replace Marion with TA and they're still a championship team.

Kidd = I regard Kidd as the third best player on last year's Mavs.

Marion and JT fourth and fifth in some order. Undecided.

Not sure Dallas wins without Marion's post game and scoring output if they switched Marion for TA ... but it's a close call, I'm not sure, need to think more about that ... TA could replace Marion and keep Dallas close to where they were/are with Marion.

[indeedproceed]

Again, like I said he's far from an ideal 3rd guy so I really don't value him that highly, but I don't value Harden that highly either.  Are you thinking about him if he reaches his potential?

As a starter, I think Harden is a 16-17ppg threat with very good rebounding and playmaking ability and average defense. A very efficient scorer and overall offensive player who is a major threat both off the dribble (out of the pick and roll) and with his set jump shot (great range). Very easy to play with. Complements ball-dominant stars very well and creates shots for role players.

Rebounding and playmaking?  In 28 mpg after the all-star break, he averaged 2.8 and 2.4 rebounds and assists per game.  I agree with the offense and the shooting threat, but I have always thought of Harden as a pretty one-dimensional player as a scorer.  (But better than most one-dimensional players in the sense that he's not necessarily a liability in other aspects, just very average to slightly below average)

Do you think Ray Allen is a one-dimensional player?

[indeedproceed]

James Harden is brilliant in the pick and roll.

DO YOU AGREE NOW, IP?

That'll do son, that'll do.

[action781]

OKC!

pg. mo williams
sg. kobe bryant/shannon brown
sf. carmelo anthony
pf. rashard lewis/ jj hickson
c.  demarcus cousins/jermaine o'neal

Your 1 and 4 are perfect fits as knock down shooters who can spread the floor for Kobe and Melo.  I still don't like Cousins.  Start JO and have Cousins play backup mintues at the 4 and 5.  I still don't like cousins on this team even in that role.  I think you want a defensive minded vet here

i think cousins is like a young bynum hungry to prove to the vets hes capable of being a beast.

But this team doesn't need a bynum-like beast.  They just need a solid interior defensive presence.  Not somebody who is likely to cause problems.  I would highly expect Kobe and him to get in a fist fight in practice or the lockerroom.  Seriously.  And when that happens, here comes...

[action781]

I've said it once and I'll say it again, the West is a bloodbath.

It's crazy, I'm very thankful we aren't out there

Its funny you say that..I was thinking I'm seeing separation for the first time out west today also.

I see a few teams in the west that I would prefer avoiding in the playoffs if possible:  OKC, maybe Portland, and Sacramento.  I think other teams out there are very good too, and maybe even on the same talent level, but I feel like we matchup very well against.

Not really any team in the East that I want to avoid.  I guess maybe 1.

[Who]

New Atlanta Army Ants.

PG - Rajon Rondo / will still draft one
SG - DeShawn Stevenson / Marcus Thornton
SF - Caron Butler / Terrence Williams
PF - Al Jefferson / Tyrus Thomas
C  - Andris Biedrins / Andray Blatche

DeShawn starts but Thorton gets more minutes. A lot more.

Criticisms are welcome.

I'd like to see you start Blatche + Tyrus and use Big Al as a sixth man.

I wouldn't play Biedrins. He adds nothing to your team.

[action781]

Again, like I said he's far from an ideal 3rd guy so I really don't value him that highly, but I don't value Harden that highly either.  Are you thinking about him if he reaches his potential?

As a starter, I think Harden is a 16-17ppg threat with very good rebounding and playmaking ability and average defense. A very efficient scorer and overall offensive player who is a major threat both off the dribble (out of the pick and roll) and with his set jump shot (great range). Very easy to play with. Complements ball-dominant stars very well and creates shots for role players.

Rebounding and playmaking?  In 28 mpg after the all-star break, he averaged 2.8 and 2.4 rebounds and assists per game.  I agree with the offense and the shooting threat, but I have always thought of Harden as a pretty one-dimensional player as a scorer.  (But better than most one-dimensional players in the sense that he's not necessarily a liability in other aspects, just very average to slightly below average)

Do you think Ray Allen is a one-dimensional player?

Absolutely I do.  Luckily for him, he is the best ever in the history of the sport of basketball at that one-dimension, so he's had a very successful career.

[Fafnir]

Absolutely I do.  Luckily for him, he is the best ever in the history of the sport of basketball at that one-dimension, so he's had a very successful career.

You should watch some classic NBA of him with Seattle and Milwaukee if you think he's one-dimensional.

Ray Allen is now one-dimensional in his 14th year in the NBA that is true.

Harden is not a one-dimensional player at all in my book, especially not when he's allowed to play starter minutes and be comfortable in a bigger role.

[indeedproceed]

I've said it once and I'll say it again, the West is a bloodbath.

It's crazy, I'm very thankful we aren't out there

Its funny you say that..I was thinking I'm seeing separation for the first time out west today also.

I see a few teams in the west that I would prefer avoiding in the playoffs if possible:  OKC, maybe Portland, and Sacramento.  I think other teams out there are very good too, and maybe even on the same talent level, but I feel like we matchup very well against.

Not really any team in the East that I want to avoid.  I guess maybe 1.

You should fear Portland. Everyone should fear Portland.