If Davis walks, does Danny HAVE to make a trade?

[nickagneta]

Here's the scenario and this is regardless of what the collective bargaining agreement will be:

Right now the Celtics have exactly 2 players signed that can play the center and power forward position, Jermaine O'Neal and Kevin Garnett.  There are 7872 minutes to be used in those two positions during next regular season and, given the age and health of KG and JO, I don't think it unreasonable to see them only playing in a maximum of about 4200 of those minutes(27.5 MPG for 75 games for each or thereabouts).

So if Baby decides he wants to start somewhere, or like Tony Allen go somewhere and grow away from the shadow of the Big Three, does that necessitate a trade be made to fill in the minutes gap given the lack of quality in the free agent market and the options the C's have?

Sure, Krstic could have an out on his Russian contract and could sign here for whatever. Sure, Jeff Green could be signed and pick up some of those minutes but he is essentially a SF and would be signed to backup Pierce, mostly. Sure, Troy Murphy could be signed at a modest increase over the vet min, but he could, and will more than likely will, get a better deal elsewhere.

But you are still talking about filling in about two regular players playing 20 minutes a game or one guy playing starters minutes and another a role players minutes. Is the LLE and MLE and vet mins contracts really enough to provide the quality the Celtics are going to need to make a last stand for another championship with this core?

I can't help but think that if indications are that Baby is going to walk that the C's would be better off packaging Bradley, Green in a sign and trade and future picks to a team for a quality big and trying to sign Grant Hill, who came very close to signing here two years ago, Andrei Kirilenko or Tayshaun Prince than they are just signing free agents to fill the slots and keep Jeff Green.

Green just doesn't seem to me to be the type of guy you want here to rebuild with and might not "get it" enough next year to help win a title if the quality in the front court isn't very good. I think money spent on him might be better spent on an experience veteran that could help us to a championship and trading green's rights for a quality first big off the bench than just picking off the scrap heap that is this year's bigs in free agency.

Now if Baby resigns and the C's feel he can return to the form that he had from November to February and stay there, maybe for the sake of the future its better signing Green as the backup SF and using the MLE completely on someone like Samuel Dalambert. But if Baby walks, I think Green and Bradley has to go to make that run next year.

Personally I would love a Green/Bradley and a pick to Charlotte for Boris Diaw(not sure the numbers work) or Tyrus Thomas or to Phoenix for Channing Frye or Minnesota for Darko Milicic( a much improve year last year and still only 25) or denver for a sign and trade for kenyon Martin.

[Lucky17]

I remain optimistic that Kenyon Martin would accept a short-term contract at the full MLE from Boston (another Sheed/JO type deal).

He'd be a great addition to back up both frontcourt spots, especially if Davis walks.

I also really want Ainge to get something in exchange for Davis via a sign and trade, ideally a trade exception.

[Yoki_IsTheName]

I remain optimistic that Kenyon Martin would accept a short-term contract at the full MLE from Boston (another Sheed/JO type deal).

He'd be a great addition to back up both frontcourt spots, especially if Davis walks.

I also really want Ainge to get something in exchange for Davis via a sign and trade, ideally a trade exception.

Oh yeah bring K-Mart to the C's. If BBD walks that is.

[greenpride32]

My guess is Green is more likely to be resigned than BBD.  Pencil Pierce in at the 3 for 33-34 MPG and that doesn't leave many minutes for Green so I see him getting additional minutes at the 4.  Green has the young legs and can easily give you 35+ MPG.  

Bottom line is last offseason we really lucked out with being able to get Shaq and Delonte at vet min.  I understand we didn't get much out of them in terms of minutes, but that level of talent for the money is going to be really hard to come by again; and we'd probably be parading right now if they stayed healthy.  We were also able to get Marquis I believe at LLE and he was quite effective, again when healthy.

Green took a back seat to the big 4 as any incoming player would.  Even Shaq said he would have to be a consultant here since they already have plenty of CEO's.  But I thought he showed plenty of signs of having the potential to be an effective player.

I'm pretty sure the team is already committed to competing next year and even trying to pull off a 2009-10 repeat if they have to.  They have little in trade chips without breaking up the team, but when you think about it breaking up the team doesn't offer a whole ot more either.  You aren't going to get equal talent back for aging veterans.

[LooseCannon]

I don't believe that Ainge has to make a trade, mainly because I am unconvinced that there exist any good trades that he can make.  I also don't believe that a Jeff Green S&T can be done unless they do away with base year compensation rules.

Kenyon Martin has a good chance of being another JO-type deal knee-wise.

[Who]

I remain optimistic that Kenyon Martin would accept a short-term contract at the full MLE from Boston (another Sheed/JO type deal).

I can't see Kenyon taking a short term deal. I think he'll require the full five years on an MLE contract.

At his age, taking a short term deal doesn't make sense. He is 33. If he takes a 2-3 year contract, he has no guarantee of being offered a sizable contract on his next go around in free agency. This is his last big (relatively speaking) contract. He will want the maximum length possible.

[greenpride32]

I like the idea of KMart, but he sounds like a man in it for the money.  And I think he's still worth more than the MLE and will have no trouble getting it.

"(It is) my last year of my deal. We all know it. Ain't nobody in a hurry to give me (another) one. So I'm not going to be in a hurry to come back and risk it. Think about it. Ain't nobody in a hurry to give me a contract, so why would I be in a hurry to rush back and risk further injury? It makes all the sense in the world. I've thought about it.''

Martin said he wanted a contract extension from the Nuggets for similar money as to the five-year, $33.4 million forward Al Harrington received last July as a free agent. But Martin vows he won't let the issue be a distraction and he wants to devote his energy to coming back from knee surgery.

[Who]

Bottom line is last offseason we really lucked out with being able to get Shaq and Delonte at vet min.  

I understand we didn't get much out of them in terms of minutes, but that level of talent for the money is going to be really hard to come by again; and we'd probably be parading right now if they stayed healthy.

Yeah, I would have been irritated to high heaven if Jermaine O'Neal was the only significant addition (and at MLE money) last year. Those Delonte + Shaq acquisitions really saved the day and gave the C's a chance at having a very talented bench.

It was incredibly lucky that they were available for minimum contracts ... hard to see Danny being that lucky again this offseason given the limited talent pool in this year's free agency.

[BASS_THUMPER]

baby will never play the way he did a few year back..this was the worst ive seen him play

baby game is spiraling downward

let him get his stroll on

[JBcat]

I don't think we'll have to make a trade.   There could be other options even if the likes of Jordan, Chandler, and Dalembert are out or reach.  We could possibly split the MLE and LLE among lower level centers and power forwards.

First I'm curious with a training camp under his belt if Troy Murphy could revert close to his former self and be our primary PF backup if Baby walks.   We might be able to lock him up on a favorable 1 year deal for the C's considering he hasn't played much the past year and has reached the age of 30.

Some of the lower level centers/power forwards I was speaking of include;
 
Ben Wallace
Nazr Mohammed
Kwame Brown
 Jeff Foster
Chris Wilcox
Leon Powe
Craig Smith
Kris Humphries
Carl Landry
Sheldon Williams
 Joey Dorsey
Even Brian Scalabrine! ha

We did ok when Erden was our starting center and we stayed above water when Krstic was our only available center.  With that statement I might be comfortable signing a few solid vets on 1 year deals such as Ben Wallace, Jeff Foster, and Joey Dorsey.  Those 3 are offensively challenged but they are tough defensively.  Then as the February trade deadline approaches see what trade options are out there for upgrades.  Preserve some of what little trade assets we have now in Green and Bradley.  If we need to make a trade in February involving them hopefully they will have improved their stock.

I'm not saying this is ideal scenario but we shouldn't be desperate to trade Green/Bradley if Baby walks.  If a really good presents itself to get excellent front court help knowing we could sign a Battier, Kirlenko, or Grant Hill in our back pocket then that's an option too.  

[LooseCannon]

Then as the February trade deadline approaches see what trade options are out there for upgrades.  Preserve some of what little trade assets we have now in Green and Bradley.  If we need to make a trade in February involving them hopefully they will have improved their stock.

After seeing the effects of mid-season roster churn in the past year, I would rather just find some role players and hang onto the the entire season.  Preferably, guys like Semih Erden and Chris Johnson who are unknown quantities with upside rather than NBA veterans who have established records of mediocrity or are obviously in decline.

[slamtheking]

I don't think we'll have to make a trade.   There could be other options even if the likes of Jordan, Chandler, and Dalembert are out or reach.  We could possibly split the MLE and LLE among lower level centers and power forwards.

First I'm curious with a training camp under his belt if Troy Murphy could revert close to his former self and be our primary PF backup if Baby walks.   We might be able to lock him up on a favorable 1 year deal for the C's considering he hasn't played much the past year and has reached the age of 30.

Some of the lower level centers/power forwards I was speaking of include;
 
Ben Wallace
Nazr Mohammed
Kwame Brown
 Jeff Foster
Chris Wilcox
Leon Powe
Craig Smith
Kris Humphries
Carl Landry
Sheldon Williams
 Joey Dorsey
Even Brian Scalabrine! ha

I'd be very happy with Landry and Humphries but I think it'll take the MLE for Landry and I don't see Humphries leaving NJ.
If Danny lands Nazr with part of the MLE and Foster and Powe on a vet min, that wouldn't suck.  Quisy for vet min.  use the LLE and the balance of the MLE to get back up PF and wing.

[nickagneta]

I'm not saying this is ideal scenario but we shouldn't be desperate to trade Green/Bradley if Baby walks.  If a really good presents itself to get excellent front court help knowing we could sign a Battier, Kirlenko, or Grant Hill in our back pocket then that's an option too. 

I don't see the C's being able to sign serviceable big men AND get a Grant Hill or Battier or Kirilenko.

I'm just not as crazy about Jeff Green as I used to be and some others are on this blog. I don't see him as cornerstone potential for the future and so if baby goes, heck, maybe even if Baby stays, I would rather convert him into a better vet.

Sure BYC means its harder to trade him but that doesn't mean its impossible. Signing and trading Green at say $7 million along with Bradley and Shaq's contract(convince him to retire with the other team, vet minimum contracts don't count towards incoming salary in a sign and trade, only outgoing and Shaq's salary comes off their books instead of ours) gives the C's $6.4 million outgoing and means we could trade for someone in the range of $6-8 million and it would work.

That's a quality player that I think could be much better than Green for a run at a title and would allow for the C's to spend the MLE and LLE and vet mins on a player like Hill or Battier or Kirilenko.

If Houston goes rebuilding I could see them looking to add a young piece like Green at SF and Bradley. Dallas could look to dump Brendan Haywood's contract to keep Chandler and replace Caron Butler. There are a number of teams that could match up.

I just think that with Baby walking, a last stand run at a championship is better served with a proven veteran than a guy like Green that might not work out and then getting a proven guy like backup SF in free agency because, in this year's free agent crop, that is where the quality is, not at big man.

[JBcat]

I'm not saying this is ideal scenario but we shouldn't be desperate to trade Green/Bradley if Baby walks.  If a really good presents itself to get excellent front court help knowing we could sign a Battier, Kirlenko, or Grant Hill in our back pocket then that's an option too. 

I don't see the C's being able to sign serviceable big men AND get a Grant Hill or Battier or Kirilenko.

I'm just not as crazy about Jeff Green as I used to be and some others are on this blog. I don't see him as cornerstone potential for the future and so if baby goes, heck, maybe even if Baby stays, I would rather convert him into a better vet.

Sure BYC means its harder to trade him but that doesn't mean its impossible. Signing and trading Green at say $7 million along with Bradley and Shaq's contract(convince him to retire with the other team, vet minimum contracts don't count towards incoming salary in a sign and trade, only outgoing and Shaq's salary comes off their books instead of ours) gives the C's $6.4 million outgoing and means we could trade for someone in the range of $6-8 million and it would work.

That's a quality player that I think could be much better than Green for a run at a title and would allow for the C's to spend the MLE and LLE and vet mins on a player like Hill or Battier or Kirilenko.

If Houston goes rebuilding I could see them looking to add a young piece like Green at SF and Bradley. Dallas could look to dump Brendan Haywood's contract to keep Chandler and replace Caron Butler. There are a number of teams that could match up.

I just think that with Baby walking, a last stand run at a championship is better served with a proven veteran than a guy like Green that might not work out and then getting a proven guy like backup SF in free agency because, in this year's free agent crop, that is where the quality is, not at big man.

My mistake if I wasn't clear.  What I meant was if we were to trade Green/Bradley for frontcourt help I would hope we could sign 1 of Battier, Kirlenko, Hill, and add Prince to the list too.   I don't expect to sign serviceable big men along with 1 of those wing players as you mentioned. 

I feel the same way about Green as you.   Only a handful of games during the second half of the season I was really impressed with.  Not nearly enough to get me excited, however if a good trade does not present itself I could roll with keeping him hoping he improves with a training camp here under his belt, and signing cheaper big men.  At worst we could look to trade him by the trade deadline however we would lose out on the opportunity of the wings this summer.  Tough call, but I would hope if we traded a Green/Bradley combo now we could land a big man for the present and the future, and not just a short term fix. 

[TheTruthFot18]

At first I would say no. I think its similar to the TA situation last year where we just filled it in. I have to say we got very lucky with additions last summer. Minus Perk, Shaq, JO, and Erden were a solid 5 rotation even with injuries. And Dwest and Wafer helped at the 1 and 2.

But who is guaranteed outside the starting 5 (and Bradley)? I imagine if Davis walks, Danny would pull for a s+t deal. Otherwise FA market again (although less talent now)