Workouts

[Chris]

We need to have a good draft in addition to any players we may sign, as Wyc said they are willing to spend. I think it's worth it to get higher up in this draft, get a guy like Faried that could join the rotation right off, and Ainge doesn't try to pull a rabbit out of his hat like he did with the Giddens/Walker draft.

after seeing many of the posts about the various possibilities at #25 and the league-wide regard of this draft as not particularly good, I'm wondering if Wyc will toss some $ at another team or 2 to get another mid-to-low 1st rounder or high second rounder so the C's have a chance to bring in a couple of guys that could make the team and help out going forward.  Perhaps increase the odds of getting a couple of the following players: Vucevic, Tyler, Faried,  or another couple of options at C and PF. 

Just a thought.

It will be interesting to see.  Although I wouldn't count on it.  Where it is a weak draft, there just isn't a ton of value in using valuable roster spots on guys like this.  I think if there is someone they love, then they will do it, but beyond that, I think they will prefer to use those roster spots for veterans.

Why not, though?  They went into last season with three rookies and a roster that was stacked with plenty of veterans.  I mean, for all the grief I've given Danny I still applaud the job he did last summer bringing in plenty of veterans so the rookies weren't being counted on to contribute right away.

With Shaq retiring, there's only six guys under contract for next season.  There's room both to bring back Jeff Green and some other veterans, and to add a couple extra rookies.  If there's any thought of maybe using KG's or Ray's contracts in a trade, they've got to start acquiring young talent as "sweeteners" or it's not going to happen.

Well, there is a difference between first and second round picks on this.  I would say that, if the price is right, buy second rounders to your hearts content.  But first rounders get a guaranteed contract.

In case you didn't notice, they went into last season with 3 rookies, and they ended the season with only 1, because they needed to clear the space for veterans that could help them win.  I imagine they will be in the same position next year (and I also question whether Bradley will be anything more than a project again next year).

When you have second round picks, who are on non-guaranteed deals beyond that season, if they don't pan out, then its easy to get rid of them, either via trade, or just cutting them loose.  If you have first round picks, those guys become much harder to trade, because they are making more money (and teams have to match their contracts in trades, which they don't have to do with second rounders on minimum contracts), and because they are multiple year commitment of money (again, most second rounders are on deals with team options).

So, second rounders, you can give a chance to prove something in the first half of the season, and then cut loose if the roster spot can be better used by a veteran.  First rounders, you better be very sold on, because you are committed to them.

As for the roster, here is how I break it down:

1. Pierce
2. KG
3. Rondo
4. Ray
5. JO
6. Backup wing 1
7. Backup PG 1
8. Backup PF 1
9. Backups C 1
10. Backup wing 2
11. Backup C 2
12. Backup PF 2
13. Backup PG 2
14. Bradley
15. First round pick

Now, perhaps Bradley could fill the spot of backup PG 2...at least to start the year, and perhaps the first round pick can also fill the spot of one of the deep depth guys, and won't be just a project.  But, given the makeup of this team, I think wrapping up more than 2 spots in young guys with guaranteed deals, and no proof that they can actually play at the NBA level (and no, Bradley has not come anywhere near proving this), is just asking for this team to be playing the Big 3 many more minutes than anyone wants...because Doc is not going to play kids who aren't ready. 

As long as this team is competing for championships, they need to have at least the flexibility to easily add veterans for depth, in case of injuries, etc.

[the_Bird]

...  and one of the dangers of relying on veterans is that a lot of the guys who are available once you've spent the MLE and LLE are able to contribute exactly as much as Dropkick, Sasha, and Arroyo did.  Particularly now that we're one step below Miami in terms of offering the best chance for a ring for those older, rotation-caliber guys desperate for one.  

I do see your point, but in my mind it's mostly mitigate by these only being two guaranteed years, and the raw salaries for a guy picked in the 20s aren't *that* much higher than the vet minimum.  Avery Bradley's basically playing on a 2 year/$3M contract.  I don't see adding two (or three) guys on contracts like that being any significant hindrance to the team's future flexibility.  

[Chris]

...  and one of the dangers of relying on veterans is that a lot of the guys who are available once you've spent the MLE and LLE are able to contribute exactly as much as Dropkick, Sasha, and Arroyo did.  Particularly now that we're one step below Miami in terms of offering the best chance for a ring for those older, rotation-caliber guys desperate for one.  

I do see your point, but in my mind it's mostly mitigate by these only being two guaranteed years, and the raw salaries for a guy picked in the 20s aren't *that* much higher than the vet minimum.  Avery Bradley's basically playing on a 2 year/$3M contract.  I don't see adding two (or three) guys on contracts like that being any significant hindrance to the team's future flexibility.  

You absolutely have a point, and I think they made some real mistakes with talent evaluation, particularly on Murphy.  And, if you can identify the right guys, then, I think it is worth it, because sometimes you get guys like Greivis Vasquez, who can step right in, and help out as much as a veteran.

That is why it really does come down to individuals.  If there is a guy you love, by all means, go for it (just like Danny did with Rondo). Or, if its someone you want to store overseas, that can work too.  But I don't think this team is in a position right now, where they should be collecting late first round picks, just to accumulate mediocre talent.  Roster and cap space is at such a premium, that they need to be very selective about where they are using it.  If you love a player, whether a they are a draft pick, free agent, or trade, you try to get them.  But if not, then it is better off to use those assets for guys you feel confident can provide you with some depth, and who provide flexibility.

[CFAN38]

also per WEEI the Cs had 18 year old big man Joffrey Lauvergne in for a workout,

Looking at the list of bigs the Cs have looked at for the #25 pick they seem to fall into 2 groups

Vucevic Center
Leur    PF
Harper

both are proven ncaa players from good conferences with very little star potential but should contribute in the nba at some level 7th or 8th man of bench

Benson
Nogueira

both of these guys are high potential big men who can also very easily become busts, due to his age and having played 4 years of college i think benson at least will be a steven hunter type pro (measurables are very similare). Both of these guys could become solid 4/5s in the nba but could also end up out of the league in 2 years

With that said id be happy with either Vucevic (i think he can replace nenad off the bench, Benson (steve hunter type would be uses full, or Leuer (has the most offensive potential)

my dark horse would be kyle singler as our rich man's scal filling the 4/3 role off the bench

[slamtheking]

We need to have a good draft in addition to any players we may sign, as Wyc said they are willing to spend. I think it's worth it to get higher up in this draft, get a guy like Faried that could join the rotation right off, and Ainge doesn't try to pull a rabbit out of his hat like he did with the Giddens/Walker draft.

after seeing many of the posts about the various possibilities at #25 and the league-wide regard of this draft as not particularly good, I'm wondering if Wyc will toss some $ at another team or 2 to get another mid-to-low 1st rounder or high second rounder so the C's have a chance to bring in a couple of guys that could make the team and help out going forward.  Perhaps increase the odds of getting a couple of the following players: Vucevic, Tyler, Faried,  or another couple of options at C and PF. 

Just a thought.

It will be interesting to see.  Although I wouldn't count on it.  Where it is a weak draft, there just isn't a ton of value in using valuable roster spots on guys like this.  I think if there is someone they love, then they will do it, but beyond that, I think they will prefer to use those roster spots for veterans.

Why not, though?  They went into last season with three rookies and a roster that was stacked with plenty of veterans.  I mean, for all the grief I've given Danny I still applaud the job he did last summer bringing in plenty of veterans so the rookies weren't being counted on to contribute right away.

With Shaq retiring, there's only six guys under contract for next season.  There's room both to bring back Jeff Green and some other veterans, and to add a couple extra rookies.  If there's any thought of maybe using KG's or Ray's contracts in a trade, they've got to start acquiring young talent as "sweeteners" or it's not going to happen.

Well, there is a difference between first and second round picks on this.  I would say that, if the price is right, buy second rounders to your hearts content.  But first rounders get a guaranteed contract.

In case you didn't notice, they went into last season with 3 rookies, and they ended the season with only 1, because they needed to clear the space for veterans that could help them win.  I imagine they will be in the same position next year (and I also question whether Bradley will be anything more than a project again next year).

When you have second round picks, who are on non-guaranteed deals beyond that season, if they don't pan out, then its easy to get rid of them, either via trade, or just cutting them loose.  If you have first round picks, those guys become much harder to trade, because they are making more money (and teams have to match their contracts in trades, which they don't have to do with second rounders on minimum contracts), and because they are multiple year commitment of money (again, most second rounders are on deals with team options).

So, second rounders, you can give a chance to prove something in the first half of the season, and then cut loose if the roster spot can be better used by a veteran.  First rounders, you better be very sold on, because you are committed to them.

As for the roster, here is how I break it down:

1. Pierce
2. KG
3. Rondo
4. Ray
5. JO
6. Backup wing 1 GREEN
7. Backup PG 1  WEST
8. Backup PF 1
9. Backups C 1
10. Backup wing 2
11. Backup C 2
12. Backup PF 2
13. Backup PG 2  Bradley
14. First round pick
15. OTHER ROOKIE
Now, perhaps Bradley could fill the spot of backup PG 2...at least to start the year, and perhaps the first round pick can also fill the spot of one of the deep depth guys, and won't be just a project.  But, given the makeup of this team, I think wrapping up more than 2 spots in young guys with guaranteed deals, and no proof that they can actually play at the NBA level (and no, Bradley has not come anywhere near proving this), is just asking for this team to be playing the Big 3 many more minutes than anyone wants...because Doc is not going to play kids who aren't ready. 

As long as this team is competing for championships, they need to have at least the flexibility to easily add veterans for depth, in case of injuries, etc.

See, I disagree with some of that reasoning.  I had this discussion with someone last year about filling out the roster.  The team can carry only 12 dressed players for any game.  There's no harm in having 3 players to develop on a 15-man roster.  They won't be dressing with the team -- most likely be in Maine -- if they're not ready.  No reason not to begin stockpiling some guys that could become contributing players.  Adding 2-3 rookies this year (As great as Danny's been in getting second rounders that can stick on the roster after camp, I'd be surprised if #55 sticks this year) if Danny buys more picks isn't a detriment to the team unless he's counting on them to be immediate contributors.  Perhaps the one at #25 (or higher if Danny gets a great deal) might be looked upon as  a potential contributor during the year, but if so, IMHO Danny didn't do a sufficient job filling out the roster (bench) with quality vets.

If one of the draftees really shines in camp and earns a spot on the active roster AND Doc actually plays them, that's just gravy. 

One other thing I would expect to happen based on your roster (which I tweaked a bit) is that now the Krstic is going to Russia, I would fully expect Danny to either resign BBD or work out a S&T with him to bring in a solid role player.  I would also anticipate Wafer will be brought back as well but I'm not as sure of that as Green and West coming back.

[Chris]

We need to have a good draft in addition to any players we may sign, as Wyc said they are willing to spend. I think it's worth it to get higher up in this draft, get a guy like Faried that could join the rotation right off, and Ainge doesn't try to pull a rabbit out of his hat like he did with the Giddens/Walker draft.

after seeing many of the posts about the various possibilities at #25 and the league-wide regard of this draft as not particularly good, I'm wondering if Wyc will toss some $ at another team or 2 to get another mid-to-low 1st rounder or high second rounder so the C's have a chance to bring in a couple of guys that could make the team and help out going forward.  Perhaps increase the odds of getting a couple of the following players: Vucevic, Tyler, Faried,  or another couple of options at C and PF. 

Just a thought.

It will be interesting to see.  Although I wouldn't count on it.  Where it is a weak draft, there just isn't a ton of value in using valuable roster spots on guys like this.  I think if there is someone they love, then they will do it, but beyond that, I think they will prefer to use those roster spots for veterans.

Why not, though?  They went into last season with three rookies and a roster that was stacked with plenty of veterans.  I mean, for all the grief I've given Danny I still applaud the job he did last summer bringing in plenty of veterans so the rookies weren't being counted on to contribute right away.

With Shaq retiring, there's only six guys under contract for next season.  There's room both to bring back Jeff Green and some other veterans, and to add a couple extra rookies.  If there's any thought of maybe using KG's or Ray's contracts in a trade, they've got to start acquiring young talent as "sweeteners" or it's not going to happen.

Well, there is a difference between first and second round picks on this.  I would say that, if the price is right, buy second rounders to your hearts content.  But first rounders get a guaranteed contract.

In case you didn't notice, they went into last season with 3 rookies, and they ended the season with only 1, because they needed to clear the space for veterans that could help them win.  I imagine they will be in the same position next year (and I also question whether Bradley will be anything more than a project again next year).

When you have second round picks, who are on non-guaranteed deals beyond that season, if they don't pan out, then its easy to get rid of them, either via trade, or just cutting them loose.  If you have first round picks, those guys become much harder to trade, because they are making more money (and teams have to match their contracts in trades, which they don't have to do with second rounders on minimum contracts), and because they are multiple year commitment of money (again, most second rounders are on deals with team options).

So, second rounders, you can give a chance to prove something in the first half of the season, and then cut loose if the roster spot can be better used by a veteran.  First rounders, you better be very sold on, because you are committed to them.

As for the roster, here is how I break it down:

1. Pierce
2. KG
3. Rondo
4. Ray
5. JO
6. Backup wing 1 GREEN
7. Backup PG 1  WEST
8. Backup PF 1
9. Backups C 1
10. Backup wing 2
11. Backup C 2
12. Backup PF 2
13. Backup PG 2  Bradley
14. First round pick
15. OTHER ROOKIE
Now, perhaps Bradley could fill the spot of backup PG 2...at least to start the year, and perhaps the first round pick can also fill the spot of one of the deep depth guys, and won't be just a project.  But, given the makeup of this team, I think wrapping up more than 2 spots in young guys with guaranteed deals, and no proof that they can actually play at the NBA level (and no, Bradley has not come anywhere near proving this), is just asking for this team to be playing the Big 3 many more minutes than anyone wants...because Doc is not going to play kids who aren't ready. 

As long as this team is competing for championships, they need to have at least the flexibility to easily add veterans for depth, in case of injuries, etc.

See, I disagree with some of that reasoning.  I had this discussion with someone last year about filling out the roster.  The team can carry only 12 dressed players for any game.  There's no harm in having 3 players to develop on a 15-man roster.  They won't be dressing with the team -- most likely be in Maine -- if they're not ready.  No reason not to begin stockpiling some guys that could become contributing players.  Adding 2-3 rookies this year (As great as Danny's been in getting second rounders that can stick on the roster after camp, I'd be surprised if #55 sticks this year) if Danny buys more picks isn't a detriment to the team unless he's counting on them to be immediate contributors.  Perhaps the one at #25 (or higher if Danny gets a great deal) might be looked upon as  a potential contributor during the year, but if so, IMHO Danny didn't do a sufficient job filling out the roster (bench) with quality vets.

If one of the draftees really shines in camp and earns a spot on the active roster AND Doc actually plays them, that's just gravy. 

One other thing I would expect to happen based on your roster (which I tweaked a bit) is that now the Krstic is going to Russia, I would fully expect Danny to either resign BBD or work out a S&T with him to bring in a solid role player.  I would also anticipate Wafer will be brought back as well but I'm not as sure of that as Green and West coming back.

But what about injuries?  If you have 3 developmental guys that you are not comfortable playing NBA minutes (which would be the case with the majority of rookies not taken in the lottery, or at least how you need to project them), and you have 3 or 4 injuries, suddenly, those last 3 guys are no longer #13, 14, 15, but perhaps guys you need to step in to the rotation, kind of like what they needed from Wafer and Pavlovic at times last season.

[slamtheking]

We need to have a good draft in addition to any players we may sign, as Wyc said they are willing to spend. I think it's worth it to get higher up in this draft, get a guy like Faried that could join the rotation right off, and Ainge doesn't try to pull a rabbit out of his hat like he did with the Giddens/Walker draft.

after seeing many of the posts about the various possibilities at #25 and the league-wide regard of this draft as not particularly good, I'm wondering if Wyc will toss some $ at another team or 2 to get another mid-to-low 1st rounder or high second rounder so the C's have a chance to bring in a couple of guys that could make the team and help out going forward.  Perhaps increase the odds of getting a couple of the following players: Vucevic, Tyler, Faried,  or another couple of options at C and PF. 

Just a thought.

It will be interesting to see.  Although I wouldn't count on it.  Where it is a weak draft, there just isn't a ton of value in using valuable roster spots on guys like this.  I think if there is someone they love, then they will do it, but beyond that, I think they will prefer to use those roster spots for veterans.

Why not, though?  They went into last season with three rookies and a roster that was stacked with plenty of veterans.  I mean, for all the grief I've given Danny I still applaud the job he did last summer bringing in plenty of veterans so the rookies weren't being counted on to contribute right away.

With Shaq retiring, there's only six guys under contract for next season.  There's room both to bring back Jeff Green and some other veterans, and to add a couple extra rookies.  If there's any thought of maybe using KG's or Ray's contracts in a trade, they've got to start acquiring young talent as "sweeteners" or it's not going to happen.

Well, there is a difference between first and second round picks on this.  I would say that, if the price is right, buy second rounders to your hearts content.  But first rounders get a guaranteed contract.

In case you didn't notice, they went into last season with 3 rookies, and they ended the season with only 1, because they needed to clear the space for veterans that could help them win.  I imagine they will be in the same position next year (and I also question whether Bradley will be anything more than a project again next year).

When you have second round picks, who are on non-guaranteed deals beyond that season, if they don't pan out, then its easy to get rid of them, either via trade, or just cutting them loose.  If you have first round picks, those guys become much harder to trade, because they are making more money (and teams have to match their contracts in trades, which they don't have to do with second rounders on minimum contracts), and because they are multiple year commitment of money (again, most second rounders are on deals with team options).

So, second rounders, you can give a chance to prove something in the first half of the season, and then cut loose if the roster spot can be better used by a veteran.  First rounders, you better be very sold on, because you are committed to them.

As for the roster, here is how I break it down:

1. Pierce
2. KG
3. Rondo
4. Ray
5. JO
6. Backup wing 1 GREEN
7. Backup PG 1  WEST
8. Backup PF 1
9. Backups C 1
10. Backup wing 2
11. Backup C 2
12. Backup PF 2
13. Backup PG 2  Bradley
14. First round pick
15. OTHER ROOKIE
Now, perhaps Bradley could fill the spot of backup PG 2...at least to start the year, and perhaps the first round pick can also fill the spot of one of the deep depth guys, and won't be just a project.  But, given the makeup of this team, I think wrapping up more than 2 spots in young guys with guaranteed deals, and no proof that they can actually play at the NBA level (and no, Bradley has not come anywhere near proving this), is just asking for this team to be playing the Big 3 many more minutes than anyone wants...because Doc is not going to play kids who aren't ready. 

As long as this team is competing for championships, they need to have at least the flexibility to easily add veterans for depth, in case of injuries, etc.

See, I disagree with some of that reasoning.  I had this discussion with someone last year about filling out the roster.  The team can carry only 12 dressed players for any game.  There's no harm in having 3 players to develop on a 15-man roster.  They won't be dressing with the team -- most likely be in Maine -- if they're not ready.  No reason not to begin stockpiling some guys that could become contributing players.  Adding 2-3 rookies this year (As great as Danny's been in getting second rounders that can stick on the roster after camp, I'd be surprised if #55 sticks this year) if Danny buys more picks isn't a detriment to the team unless he's counting on them to be immediate contributors.  Perhaps the one at #25 (or higher if Danny gets a great deal) might be looked upon as  a potential contributor during the year, but if so, IMHO Danny didn't do a sufficient job filling out the roster (bench) with quality vets.

If one of the draftees really shines in camp and earns a spot on the active roster AND Doc actually plays them, that's just gravy. 

One other thing I would expect to happen based on your roster (which I tweaked a bit) is that now the Krstic is going to Russia, I would fully expect Danny to either resign BBD or work out a S&T with him to bring in a solid role player.  I would also anticipate Wafer will be brought back as well but I'm not as sure of that as Green and West coming back.

But what about injuries?  If you have 3 developmental guys that you are not comfortable playing NBA minutes (which would be the case with the majority of rookies not taken in the lottery, or at least how you need to project them), and you have 3 or 4 injuries, suddenly, those last 3 guys are no longer #13, 14, 15, but perhaps guys you need to step in to the rotation, kind of like what they needed from Wafer and Pavlovic at times last season.

If you're down to your 13-15th players on your roster having to provide major contributions, you're in major trouble regardless of who those players are.  The volume of injuries the C's had last year was freakish.  They had a solid first 12 on the roster with 3 guys in Erden, Luke and Avery that were not expected to see the court at all.  The team was stacked with talent far moreso than any other team in the league and it didn't stop the calamity of last season from occurring. 

Realistically, if you can't get 12 NBA-quality players to suit up for your first game of the season and leave the last 3 spots for developing players because you expect those last 3 players to make contributions during the year, you're kidding yourself about your team's chances of contending.

[CFAN38]

Malcolm Lee (UCLA), Chris Wright (Georgetown), Anthony Gurley (UMass) and Demonte Harper (Morehead State) also participated. The Celtics have the 25th pick and 55th picks in the draft.

Lee could make for a nice wing off the bench has more size then delote or avery and is considered a solid defender. UCLA has a history or producing solid pros in the last few drafts

[the_Bird]

If you're down to your 13-15th players on your roster having to provide major contributions, you're in major trouble regardless of who those players are.  The volume of injuries the C's had last year was freakish.  They had a solid first 12 on the roster with 3 guys in Erden, Luke and Avery that were not expected to see the court at all.  The team was stacked with talent far moreso than any other team in the league and it didn't stop the calamity of last season from occurring.  

Realistically, if you can't get 12 NBA-quality players to suit up for your first game of the season and leave the last 3 spots for developing players because you expect those last 3 players to make contributions during the year, you're kidding yourself about your team's chances of contending.

The injury infestation was only somewhat freakish, but I would argue that the deliberate decision to fill out the roster with a lot of older players who were known injury risks certainly contributed to that.  Shaq and JO - the injury risks were known.  Quis' injury was freakish, but I don't think he's ever played a full season and they knew he has spinal issues.  Delonte, I love him but he's brittle.  

So, populate the team with players that you can sign cheaply in large part because of their injury histories...  you can't then complain when they get hurt!

I'd also like to think that if there was a player out there they could sign an an injury replacement, a guy that was worth signing, they'd be willing to cut a nonproductive draft pick.  As I noted earlier, guys picked in the latter part of the 1st get basically a 2/$3M contract (Taj Gibson, picked #25 two seasons ago, makes 2/$2.5M).  If they had to eat $2M to replace a player, I'd hope that they would.

But, this late-season flexibility has been basically worthless.  In the past four seasons, they've signed a ton of guys who were bought out, and the only one that was worthwhile at all was PJ Brown.  

Mikki Moore?
Starbury?
Dropkick?
Sasha?
Arroyo?

Not a one of those guys that made much of any difference.  Flexibility to sign a player late in the season has been basically worthless.

[clover]

If you're down to your 13-15th players on your roster having to provide major contributions, you're in major trouble regardless of who those players are.  The volume of injuries the C's had last year was freakish.  They had a solid first 12 on the roster with 3 guys in Erden, Luke and Avery that were not expected to see the court at all.  The team was stacked with talent far moreso than any other team in the league and it didn't stop the calamity of last season from occurring.  

Realistically, if you can't get 12 NBA-quality players to suit up for your first game of the season and leave the last 3 spots for developing players because you expect those last 3 players to make contributions during the year, you're kidding yourself about your team's chances of contending.

The injury infestation was only somewhat freakish, but I would argue that the deliberate decision to fill out the roster with a lot of older players who were known injury risks certainly contributed to that.  Shaq and JO - the injury risks were known.  Quis' injury was freakish, but I don't think he's ever played a full season and they knew he has spinal issues.  Delonte, I love him but he's brittle.  

So, populate the team with players that you can sign cheaply in large part because of their injury histories...  you can't then complain when they get hurt!

I'd also like to think that if there was a player out there they could sign an an injury replacement, a guy that was worth signing, they'd be willing to cut a nonproductive draft pick.  As I noted earlier, guys picked in the latter part of the 1st get basically a 2/$3M contract (Taj Gibson, picked #25 two seasons ago, makes 2/$2.5M).  If they had to eat $2M to replace a player, I'd hope that they would.

But, this late-season flexibility has been basically worthless.  In the past four seasons, they've signed a ton of guys who were bought out, and the only one that was worthwhile at all was PJ Brown.  

Mikki Moore?
Starbury?
Dropkick?
Sasha?
Arroyo?

Not a one of those guys that made much of any difference.  Flexibility to sign a player late in the season has been basically worthless.

Who got hurt?  The old centers who had already been breaking down, the historically injury prone DWest and Daniels, Bradley whom they knew was injured when they drafted him, and Semih.

I'd say Semih was the only injury surprise.

[gar]

Other than Rondo Danny's picks have not been that stellar. The C's have been drafting on Potential in the first (Rondo, Bradley, Giddens) and taking role players in the 2nd (BBD, Harrangody, Erden) that are solid role players. Giddens was a bust and Bradley is a good kid but may not have the nerves and the BBIQ to make it.

Perhaps the C's should use their first round to get a solid role player who can contribute and pile up some players with potential by moving up in the 2nd round.

Spurs have shown much more consistent Draft performance using young players and vets much more effectively than C's.

[the_Bird]

Other than Rondo Danny's picks have not been that stellar. The C's have been drafting on Potential in the first (Rondo, Bradley, Giddens) and taking role players in the 2nd (BBD, Harrangody, Erden) that are solid role players. Giddens was a bust and Bradley is a good kid but may not have the nerves and the BBIQ to make it.

Perhaps the C's should use their first round to get a solid role player who can contribute and pile up some players with potential by moving up in the 2nd round.

Spurs have shown much more consistent Draft performance using young players and vets much more effectively than C's.

Meh.  In '03, we got Marcus Banks (bust, although still in the League last I looked) and Perkins.  Technically via a trade with Memphis, but for all practical purposes those were our draft picks.

2004 was the Big Al Jeff/Delonte/TA draft.  That's about as good as you can do, particularly when considering that the picks were 15, 24, and 25.  Justin Reed was the 2nd rounder, he never quite panned out (although he looked like a rotation guy for a little while).

2005, Gerald Green (bust), Ryan Gomes (solid pick), Oriene Greene (sucked, but LATE 2nd rounder).

2006, got the pick to grab Rondo (brilliant selection, even with his flaws) and grabbed Powe.  Powe was a pretty [dang] good player before his last injuries, helped us win a game in the finals, but given that he was only available that late because of the injuries that pick was a wash.

2007, the Gabe Pruitt era.  He'd be considered a bust if he was picked much higher than he was.  Was this the year we got Baby Davis as well?

2008, Giddens (bust), Billie Walker (has done some things in NY), Semih (showed some flashes, he's about as good as anyone ever picked dead last in the draft).

2009, Lester Hudson.  Worthless but picked not much earlier than Semih.

2010, Avery Bradley.  Too soon to tell.

Way I look at it:
"Hits" based on their draft position were:
Big Al
Perk
Delonte
Tony Allen
Baby Davis
Rondo
Gomes

The pure busts were:
Gerald
Banks (maybe)
JR Giddens

"Better than expected, but still not great"
Powe (only because of injuries)
Semih

"Disappointing" guys (not very good, but drafted at spots where you don't expect to get good players):
Pruitt
Billie Walker
Justin Reed

Irrelevant; guys who sucked but who were drafted where your odds of getting someone who DOESN'T suck are <5%

Lester Hudson
Oriene Greene

I'd take that track record, I'd be surprised if you looked at the complete track records of any other team in the league you'd see anyone that was a helluva lot better. 

IIRC, that Gerald Green pick could have been Danny Granger pretty easily.  Green and Granger were the two obvious picks at that spot in the draft; Indiana was ahead of us and guessed right.

[slamtheking]

If you're down to your 13-15th players on your roster having to provide major contributions, you're in major trouble regardless of who those players are.  The volume of injuries the C's had last year was freakish.  They had a solid first 12 on the roster with 3 guys in Erden, Luke and Avery that were not expected to see the court at all.  The team was stacked with talent far moreso than any other team in the league and it didn't stop the calamity of last season from occurring.  

Realistically, if you can't get 12 NBA-quality players to suit up for your first game of the season and leave the last 3 spots for developing players because you expect those last 3 players to make contributions during the year, you're kidding yourself about your team's chances of contending.

The injury infestation was only somewhat freakish, but I would argue that the deliberate decision to fill out the roster with a lot of older players who were known injury risks certainly contributed to that.  Shaq and JO - the injury risks were known.  Quis' injury was freakish, but I don't think he's ever played a full season and they knew he has spinal issues.  Delonte, I love him but he's brittle.  

So, populate the team with players that you can sign cheaply in large part because of their injury histories...  you can't then complain when they get hurt!

I'd also like to think that if there was a player out there they could sign an an injury replacement, a guy that was worth signing, they'd be willing to cut a nonproductive draft pick.  As I noted earlier, guys picked in the latter part of the 1st get basically a 2/$3M contract (Taj Gibson, picked #25 two seasons ago, makes 2/$2.5M).  If they had to eat $2M to replace a player, I'd hope that they would.

But, this late-season flexibility has been basically worthless.  In the past four seasons, they've signed a ton of guys who were bought out, and the only one that was worthwhile at all was PJ Brown.  

Mikki Moore?
Starbury?
Dropkick?
Sasha?
Arroyo?

Not a one of those guys that made much of any difference.  Flexibility to sign a player late in the season has been basically worthless.

and I think this goes to my point.  C's were clearing space on the end of their roster for players off waivers that have been consistently unproductive.  There's no compelling case for not using the last 2-3 spots on the roster for developing rookies and second year players.   Thinking that a veteran that's 13th on your depth roster is going to make or break your team's season is unreasonable and scary if that were to ever come to pass

[the_Bird]

Oh, I'm absolutely agreeing with you.  Last three roster spots should be development guys.  If they're first round picks and you NEED to cut one to bring in a veteran late in the season, I'd hope that ownership would ante up and eat the $1.5M or $2.0M.  Given the crappy history of most players brought aboard late, I don't think there's much point in focusing too heavily on being able to add buyout candidates anyway.

EDIT: As well, if you harbor any illusions about filling the teams' needs via trade, you better have some young, cheap, talent - guys with upside, even if they aren't ready to contribute - to send out alongside your expiring contracts.  Which contract is going to me more useful for trade purposes?  Re-signing Troy Murphy at the vet min, or drafting JaJuan Johnson at #25?

[Overrated]

Jamie Skeen (PF)   

I'm really crossing my fingers Skeens falls to the Celtics. Please let him be available! Kid is a beast.