Author Topic: Start Green and Delonte -- Ray off the bench ala Manu  (Read 5334 times)

0 Members and 0 Guests are viewing this topic.

Start Green and Delonte -- Ray off the bench ala Manu
« on: May 11, 2011, 12:39:24 PM »

Offline Green Pride

  • Payton Pritchard
  • Posts: 122
  • Tommy Points: 10
Posting for a friend, who is a college basketball coach:

My starters for tonight and their initial assignments + my target # of minutes:
Rondo --> Bibby (20-25 min)
West --> Wade   (30-35 min)
Pierce --> James  (40 min)
Green --> Bosh  (30-35 min)
KG --> Anthony  (30-35 min)

Key Bench Reserves:
J. O'Neal   (20 min)
R. Allen    (30 min)
G. Davis   (10-15 min)

Finishing unit (depending on production and foul trouble):
West, Allen, Pierce, Green, KG

Providing that J. Green defends and rebounds (Big IF), this might be our best defensive and offensive unit. I would plan on finishing the game with Ray Allen on the court in place of Rondo in the last 7 minutes of the 1st half and last 7 min of the game. I love Rondo, but he is hurting halfcourt offensive execution down the stretch. R. Allen has not been getting quality shots off, but more importantly, his effort on the defensive rebounding (I have watched this closely) has been abysmal. Taking a page out of the Coach Pop Spurs playbook with the Spurs, you extend the life of an aging big 3 by making one the 6th man (see J. Terry and Manu G.) and then move a younger wing like R. Jefferson (Jeff Green) into the starting lineup. Ideally, the Celtics will do this next season and move one of the big 3 to a bench role, but we don't have that luxury of playing an entire reg. season to get used to it. We need athletes in the starting lineup NOW, and we need scoring punch off the bench NOW to win. Conversely, the Heat won't have a whole season to scout the new lineup. I know Doc is loyal to the veterans, but the Perk trade was a clear signal for him to quit using the old tired line that we never lost a playoff series when our starting 5 was intact. We picked up Delonte and made the Jeff Green signing so we could be versatile and play small. So far in this Series, we have only stuck our toe in the water. Spoelstra has made the biggest adjustment in the series moving Anthony to the starting lineup. Big Z will play less and less and maybe none at all if Haslem plays. We have not made a quality adjustment as Doc has juggled Jermaine, Baby, and Green in the finishing lineup. Doc tried Baby in the finishing lineup once more to close the 2nd quarter of game 4, and we paid for that decision by not holding and extending our lead going into halftime. Davis is not rebounding (4pts, 0 rebs in game 4) and taking charges this series, so he simply cannot be trusted to play that many crucial minutes. The 4th quarter was an excellent example of the Rondo problem. He cannot play 38 min as he did last night since his injury is clearly limiting his ability to push the ball in transition off a Miami make or miss which we need to do in order to get easy, early offense (see the two 3pt shots we made in a row late in the 4th). And, the arm is hindering him from delivering his usual on time, on target passes. Playing off of Rondo and clogging the lane is hurting us more against the Heat than this strategy normally does. Clearly, the weakest part of the Miami team is their supporting cast. Hopefully, with Allen, JO, and Big Baby, we have more scoring punch off the bench than they do even if two of those three players are over 30 yrs old. If the gamble pays off, Ray will get more open looks coming off the bench and maybe get heated up quicker. Plus, dare I say this, but by going small with West and Green, the Celtics actually have more post-up options than they do with playing the two O'Neals or Big Baby. Green and West both have excellent post-up games for their size, and they have tremendous 3pt shooting as well. With the lineup change, I would probably also abandon the strategy of getting KG 20 FG attempts if they haven't done so already. I would advocate for 20-25 3pt attempts tonight off of great ball movement, early transition/secondary break offense, and penetrate and kick plays. Green has to play 30+ minutes the rest of this Series, and if he responds to the starting role and the extra minutes like I hope he will, he should play 40+ minutes. You cannot let your young weapons sit on the bench and go down while stubbornly playing the 35+ year old crowd significant minutes. The Heat's youth and athleticism demands a serious counter-move by Doc, and when you are down 3-1, it is a great time to try.






Re: Start Green and Delonte -- Ray off the bench ala Manu
« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2011, 01:05:56 PM »

Offline blackberry33

  • The Green Kornet
  • Posts: 85
  • Tommy Points: 7
Posting for a friend, who is a college basketball coach:

My starters for tonight and their initial assignments + my target # of minutes:
Rondo --> Bibby (20-25 min)
West --> Wade   (30-35 min)
Pierce --> James  (40 min)
Green --> Bosh  (30-35 min)
KG --> Anthony  (30-35 min)

Key Bench Reserves:
J. O'Neal   (20 min)
R. Allen    (30 min)
G. Davis   (10-15 min)

Finishing unit (depending on production and foul trouble):
West, Allen, Pierce, Green, KG

Providing that J. Green defends and rebounds (Big IF), this might be our best defensive and offensive unit. I would plan on finishing the game with Ray Allen on the court in place of Rondo in the last 7 minutes of the 1st half and last 7 min of the game. I love Rondo, but he is hurting halfcourt offensive execution down the stretch. R. Allen has not been getting quality shots off, but more importantly, his effort on the defensive rebounding (I have watched this closely) has been abysmal. Taking a page out of the Coach Pop Spurs playbook with the Spurs, you extend the life of an aging big 3 by making one the 6th man (see J. Terry and Manu G.) and then move a younger wing like R. Jefferson (Jeff Green) into the starting lineup. Ideally, the Celtics will do this next season and move one of the big 3 to a bench role, but we don't have that luxury of playing an entire reg. season to get used to it. We need athletes in the starting lineup NOW, and we need scoring punch off the bench NOW to win. Conversely, the Heat won't have a whole season to scout the new lineup. I know Doc is loyal to the veterans, but the Perk trade was a clear signal for him to quit using the old tired line that we never lost a playoff series when our starting 5 was intact. We picked up Delonte and made the Jeff Green signing so we could be versatile and play small. So far in this Series, we have only stuck our toe in the water. Spoelstra has made the biggest adjustment in the series moving Anthony to the starting lineup. Big Z will play less and less and maybe none at all if Haslem plays. We have not made a quality adjustment as Doc has juggled Jermaine, Baby, and Green in the finishing lineup. Doc tried Baby in the finishing lineup once more to close the 2nd quarter of game 4, and we paid for that decision by not holding and extending our lead going into halftime. Davis is not rebounding (4pts, 0 rebs in game 4) and taking charges this series, so he simply cannot be trusted to play that many crucial minutes. The 4th quarter was an excellent example of the Rondo problem. He cannot play 38 min as he did last night since his injury is clearly limiting his ability to push the ball in transition off a Miami make or miss which we need to do in order to get easy, early offense (see the two 3pt shots we made in a row late in the 4th). And, the arm is hindering him from delivering his usual on time, on target passes. Playing off of Rondo and clogging the lane is hurting us more against the Heat than this strategy normally does. Clearly, the weakest part of the Miami team is their supporting cast. Hopefully, with Allen, JO, and Big Baby, we have more scoring punch off the bench than they do even if two of those three players are over 30 yrs old. If the gamble pays off, Ray will get more open looks coming off the bench and maybe get heated up quicker. Plus, dare I say this, but by going small with West and Green, the Celtics actually have more post-up options than they do with playing the two O'Neals or Big Baby. Green and West both have excellent post-up games for their size, and they have tremendous 3pt shooting as well. With the lineup change, I would probably also abandon the strategy of getting KG 20 FG attempts if they haven't done so already. I would advocate for 20-25 3pt attempts tonight off of great ball movement, early transition/secondary break offense, and penetrate and kick plays. Green has to play 30+ minutes the rest of this Series, and if he responds to the starting role and the extra minutes like I hope he will, he should play 40+ minutes. You cannot let your young weapons sit on the bench and go down while stubbornly playing the 35+ year old crowd significant minutes. The Heat's youth and athleticism demands a serious counter-move by Doc, and when you are down 3-1, it is a great time to try.








Great idea

Re: Start Green and Delonte -- Ray off the bench ala Manu
« Reply #2 on: May 11, 2011, 01:30:43 PM »

Offline Phil125

  • Jrue Holiday
  • Posts: 322
  • Tommy Points: 57
Yeah allen is getting worn out by wade.  West was doing a much better job on him.

Re: Start Green and Delonte -- Ray off the bench ala Manu
« Reply #3 on: May 11, 2011, 02:23:04 PM »

Offline SpecialistK

  • Torrey Craig
  • Posts: 8
  • Tommy Points: 0
It's a fantastic idea and makes 100% sense to me but with Doc it will NEVER happen (sadly).

Anyone remember the "Mad scientist lineups" article that was posted on here last year when we had Rasheed and how we could go really big with crazy lineups like Rondo, PP, KG, Sheed, Perk? Yeah... how many times did you see Doc even TRY something like this in a game? (and not saying the above lineup would work mind you - just an example) Nevermind messing with his starters while facing elimination in game 5 of a playoff series.

Doc can't even get away from playing Davis more than 20 minutes a game when the guy has been non existent for the past 4 months. His rotations and lineup decisions (or at least his willingness to try something different) are his weakness as a coach imo.

It really is a great idea tho. Sorry to go off on a tangent about doc. I'll buy you a 30 rack if it actually happens tonight hehe. Go Celtics!

Re: Start Green and Delonte -- Ray off the bench ala Manu
« Reply #4 on: May 11, 2011, 02:26:36 PM »

Offline pearljammer10

  • K.C. Jones
  • *************
  • Posts: 13129
  • Tommy Points: 885
Dumb.

Re: Start Green and Delonte -- Ray off the bench ala Manu
« Reply #5 on: May 11, 2011, 02:34:57 PM »

Offline looseball

  • Jaylen Brown
  • Posts: 515
  • Tommy Points: 77
Imaginative!  (Too scary for most, though.)

Re: Start Green and Delonte -- Ray off the bench ala Manu
« Reply #6 on: May 11, 2011, 03:02:11 PM »

Offline OsirusCeltics

  • Bailey Howell
  • **
  • Posts: 2013
  • Tommy Points: 198
If the lineup goes like this it would be good:

Delonte
Pierce
Green
KG
JO

Pierce does a really good job guarding Wade. He's bigger, longer, and would limit him

I actually like this lineup

Re: Start Green and Delonte -- Ray off the bench ala Manu
« Reply #7 on: May 11, 2011, 03:14:48 PM »

Offline Papatrichs

  • Derrick White
  • Posts: 256
  • Tommy Points: 25
so who's gonna pitch it to Doc?

Re: Start Green and Delonte -- Ray off the bench ala Manu
« Reply #8 on: May 11, 2011, 03:24:48 PM »

Offline jsingh1699

  • Kristaps Porzingis
  • Posts: 175
  • Tommy Points: 16
rivers will never use this to start, but at the end of games (the last 6 min) he really needs to go with

dwest
ray
pp
green
kg

if rondo was healthy (2 working arms) i would say go with him, but he just struggled too much last game. plus with dwest in, he can guard wade and let allen have it a lil easier on defense guarding chalmers.

Re: Start Green and Delonte -- Ray off the bench ala Manu
« Reply #9 on: May 11, 2011, 03:31:44 PM »

Offline LB3533

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4088
  • Tommy Points: 315
It's too late in the season to do this.

Re: Start Green and Delonte -- Ray off the bench ala Manu
« Reply #10 on: May 11, 2011, 03:33:07 PM »

Offline CeltsAcumen

  • NCE
  • Jrue Holiday
  • Posts: 331
  • Tommy Points: 33
The idea is to replace one of the most clutch shooters/scorers in the history of the NBA, the 3 pt shots all time leader with a guy who barely scores 4 pts a game and has trouble guarding anyone over 6'8"?

Yeah, I get the Delonte part, Rondo is not 100%, but to replace Ray Ray with Green is just foolish.  The respect that Green gets on this board amazes me.  Even a guy with a career like Ray Allen is 2nd to the future hall of famer Jeff Green...


Re: Start Green and Delonte -- Ray off the bench ala Manu
« Reply #11 on: May 11, 2011, 03:38:45 PM »

Offline Bahku

  • CB HOF Editor
  • Bill Sharman
  • *******************
  • Posts: 19771
  • Tommy Points: 3632
  • Oe ma krr pamtseotu
This would be about the most demoralizing and insulting thing you could do to one of the best 3-point, free-throw, and clutch shooters of all-time, not to mention how it would affect the chemistry and psyche of the other starters. No way. Ray is a huge threat, can you imagine how much easier it would be to defend this team without Ray starting?!? Not to mention he's one of the best players moving off the ball, and constantly keeps the opponent on their heels.
2010 PAPOUG, 2012 & 2017 PAPTYG CHAMP, HD BOT

* BAHKU MUSIC *

Re: Start Green and Delonte -- Ray off the bench ala Manu
« Reply #12 on: May 11, 2011, 03:44:23 PM »

Offline housecall

  • Jim Loscutoff
  • **
  • Posts: 2559
  • Tommy Points: 112
TP...I like this lineup a lot but Doc has proven over the last 4 seasons he's not a coach for change or trusting any other players to start besides his regulars,except in emergency sitautions.Actually your idea would probably benefit Ray's game more than anyone.Doc if you are reading this go for it.

Re: Start Green and Delonte -- Ray off the bench ala Manu
« Reply #13 on: May 11, 2011, 04:20:22 PM »

Offline vinnie

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8654
  • Tommy Points: 429
So, in the fifth game of the second round of the playoffs, Doc all of a sudden is going to take Ray Allen out of the starting lineup? After more than 90 games? Depending on Rondo's health, I can almost support the Delonte move.

Re: Start Green and Delonte -- Ray off the bench ala Manu
« Reply #14 on: May 11, 2011, 04:54:15 PM »

Online Vermont Green

  • K.C. Jones
  • *************
  • Posts: 13705
  • Tommy Points: 1029
If the lineup goes like this it would be good:

Delonte
Pierce
Green
KG
JO

Pierce does a really good job guarding Wade. He's bigger, longer, and would limit him

I actually like this lineup
I posted this exact line up on another tread and it got mixed reactions (like every idea that gets posted).

I don't suggest starting the game with this line up, just using it to counter the Heat's small lineup with LeBron at 4 and Bosh at 5.  The starters have been fine this series.  Why would we want to change the starters?  (Unless Rondo flat out can't play but I don't see how he is worse today than Monday).