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Author Topic: The Scoring Point Guard  (Read 11086 times)

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The Scoring Point Guard
« on: April 26, 2011, 11:26:46 AM »

Offline OsirusCeltics

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The TNT talked about it last night that Russell Westbrook basically ruined the Thunder's chances at completing the sweep.

Instead of getting his teammates involved, or even passing to the Thunder's best player in Durant in the final mintutes, Westbrook decided to shoot his team out of a win. A point guard shoots 30 shots? I think this is the reason why I say scoring point guards AREN'T point guards. They are shooting guards masquerading as point guards. They lack the court vision, passing skills, ability to control tempo, recognizing mismatches, etc.

Throughout history the only scoring point guards I could think of are Walt Frazier (my top 10 all time), Isiah Thomas, and Nate Archibald. The thing is their scoring skills were equal to their passing skills. Chris Paul is in that mold also

But that is why I can't root for Derrick Rose, Westbrook, Tyreke Evans, Deron Williams, or Jameer Nelson. They are not point guards. They look to "get theirs" instead of getting their teammates involved in the flow of the offense. I don't think that you can ever win with a player like that.


Just my two cents. Do you agree?
« Last Edit: April 26, 2011, 11:31:47 AM by OsirusCeltics »
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Re: The Scoring Point Guard
« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2011, 11:34:14 AM »

Offline wdleehi

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It really depends on how the offense is run.


On a team that uses more ball movement (like the triangle) there is nothing wrong with that type of PG. 


I would not put Daron Williams and Rose in the same category as Westbrook.  They have been the best scorers on their team where Westbrook is 2nd to Durrant.  They usually are the guys the team wants to take the last shots in the 4th quarter.  (not Boozer who they both had and seems to get smaller as the moment gets bigger)

I also think those two are better passers.  They are true PGs that happen to score alot.  (Much like an Isiah Thomas or Gary Payton)  They are not the undersized SG (AI, Franchise) or stat hanger (Marbury)
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Re: The Scoring Point Guard
« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2011, 11:35:58 AM »

Offline Bankshot

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This is the same thing that kid Collisson did in the Indiana.  They could have won games 1 and 3, but even though Granger and Hibbert were getting it done all game, he decides to try to take over the game at the end, not letting Granger or Hibbert touch the ball.  I was screaming at the TV at that kid. :-\

This is why I said in another thread that I liked Conley better right now.  He gets his teammates involved.
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Re: The Scoring Point Guard
« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2011, 11:37:52 AM »

Offline BudweiserCeltic

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I have no problem with Westbrook taking 30 shoots, you know if he's actually making them. What we saw was a consequence of poor decision making rather than a Shooting PG vs. a Passing PG. Both in their own way can make poor decisions.
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Re: The Scoring Point Guard
« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2011, 12:31:06 PM »

Offline rtifishul

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Rose is not a point guard, all he does is get into the paint and collapse the defense around him and kicks it out to someone on the wing. He is not a playmaker like Rondo or Williams, so it is imperative that people stop calling him a point guard.

The league won't do it, but they really need to bring back hand-checking. The table is tilted toward the perimeter players to do well now, but this game is for big men at its very essence. I'm tired of watching all these little guys getting so much love.


I would still take an elite center over an elite point, if I was building a team.
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Re: The Scoring Point Guard
« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2011, 12:36:32 PM »

Offline Bosstown

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Quote from: rtifishul on April 26, 2011, 12:31:06 PM
Rose is not a point guard, all he does is get into the paint and collapse the defense around him and kicks it out to someone on the wing. He is not a playmaker like Rondo or Williams, so it is imperative that people stop calling him a point guard.


yea attacking the rim and kicking it out to the open man is what good point guards do.  ::) How you think Rondo gets it to Ray half the time?
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Re: The Scoring Point Guard
« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2011, 12:59:29 PM »

Offline rtifishul

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Quote from: Bosstown on April 26, 2011, 12:36:32 PM
Quote from: rtifishul on April 26, 2011, 12:31:06 PM
Rose is not a point guard, all he does is get into the paint and collapse the defense around him and kicks it out to someone on the wing. He is not a playmaker like Rondo or Williams, so it is imperative that people stop calling him a point guard.


yea attacking the rim and kicking it out to the open man is what good point guards do.  ::) How you think Rondo gets it to Ray half the time?

Um, off screens and in transition?

If a SG played like Rose, we'd still call him a SG. There's a difference from always kicking out to the wing and being a playmaker and running an offense.
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Re: The Scoring Point Guard
« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2011, 01:06:28 PM »

Offline Prof. Clutch

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Wesbrook made some crucial errors down the stretch in that game yesterday that contributed to the Thunder's loss.  He still dropped 30 on them though.
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Re: The Scoring Point Guard
« Reply #8 on: April 26, 2011, 01:32:33 PM »

Offline OsirusCeltics

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There is a lesson learned when you have a point guard like that. You dominate the ball so much that you make your teammates ineffective

So when you are in trouble and face adversity, your teammates won't be able to bail you out. You gave them no confidence to make big shots for you
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Re: The Scoring Point Guard
« Reply #9 on: April 26, 2011, 01:37:15 PM »

Offline BudweiserCeltic

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Quote from: OsirusCeltics on April 26, 2011, 01:32:33 PM
There is a lesson learned when you have a point guard like that. You dominate the ball so much that you make your teammates ineffective

So when you are in trouble and face adversity, your teammates won't be able to bail you out. You gave them no confidence to make big shots for you


That's not what happened. He didn't pass the ball period to people who were capable of shooting it, like Durant.

Rondo has done this himself, and he's a pass first PG.

This has little to do with style of play and more with decision making.
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Re: The Scoring Point Guard
« Reply #10 on: April 26, 2011, 01:50:46 PM »

Offline OsirusCeltics

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Quote from: BudweiserCeltic on April 26, 2011, 01:37:15 PM
Quote from: OsirusCeltics on April 26, 2011, 01:32:33 PM
There is a lesson learned when you have a point guard like that. You dominate the ball so much that you make your teammates ineffective

So when you are in trouble and face adversity, your teammates won't be able to bail you out. You gave them no confidence to make big shots for you


That's not what happened. He didn't pass the ball period to people who were capable of shooting it, like Durant.

Rondo has done this himself, and he's a pass first PG.

This has little to do with style of play and more with decision making.

Yeah, totally. Just speaking in general of a ball-dominator and his eventual fate lol
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He took 30 shots to make 30 points
« Reply #11 on: April 26, 2011, 01:55:16 PM »

Offline missyP

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Meanwhile Durant the superior player took 18 shots. I sat there thinking this kid actually thinks he is the better player. A bit too selfish for my liking.

My boy Perk took 3 shots and Sefolosha 4. At some point don't you get mad playing defense all night for a perimeter player who won't share the ball with you??

"unmedicated point-guard ADD" at best.
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Re: The Scoring Point Guard
« Reply #12 on: April 26, 2011, 02:23:30 PM »

Offline ballin

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I don't think it's as simple as "scoring point guard or distributing point guard" it's more like good and bad point guards.

The fact is, Westbrook is a tiny bit overrated because his scoring ability exceeds his passing and decision-making ability. And yeah, it probably cost them a game, but his shot jacking will probably win them a game or two as well.

While Westbrook is no Chris Paul, I definitely wouldn't say he sucks, or even that scoring point guards in general suck.
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Re: The Scoring Point Guard
« Reply #13 on: April 26, 2011, 02:25:08 PM »

Offline KCattheStripe

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Quote from: Bankshot on April 26, 2011, 11:35:58 AM
This is the same thing that kid Collisson did in the Indiana.  They could have won games 1 and 3, but even though Granger and Hibbert were getting it done all game, he decides to try to take over the game at the end, not letting Granger or Hibbert touch the ball.  I was screaming at the TV at that kid. :-\

This is why I said in another thread that I liked Conley better right now.  He gets his teammates involved.

In Collison's and Westbrook's defense, that's because Mike Conley's offense is terrible.
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Re: The Scoring Point Guard
« Reply #14 on: April 26, 2011, 06:29:00 PM »

Offline kn 99

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Quote from: BudweiserCeltic on April 26, 2011, 11:37:52 AM
I have no problem with Westbrook taking 30 shoots, you know if he's actually making them. What we saw was a consequence of poor decision making rather than a Shooting PG vs. a Passing PG. Both in their own way can make poor decisions.
ya i think he got caught in the moment that last game
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