D'Antoni on Rondo : "I'd like to see him play on Minnesota and see how he does."

[PosImpos]

Agreed. Rose lack of decision-making/distribution/creativity skills are the main reason. He create shots for his teammates by attacking from a top pick'n'roll or an iso and forcing the defense to collapse on him. But he's not a floor-general by any means. There's a reason why the Bulls are an ordinary offensive team. Give Deron Williams that supporting cast and the Bulls are a top-5 offense. 

wow, you give Deron that Bulls team and I'm not confident the Celtics can get past them. Deron is huge, D-Rose, not so much.

By the way, I remember watching D'Antoni playing in Milan, and he was a great player, all smarts and guts. I was surprised when I saw his coaching style, but with Steve Nash on board he looked like a great coach.

I can see he's frustrated, but it's not a great thing to say if you are an NBA coach.

I think D'Antoni is a great coach. He's a true believer in his system, so he needs players that fit it.

  Great coaches come up with a system to fit the players they have as opposed to needing players that fit a certain system to coach effectively.

How many coaches have made drastic changes to their coaching philosophies? AND had success?

I'll count Popovich because he actually did AND had the best record, but nobody will be surprised if they don't make the WCF.

But nobody in my mind has won championships with different styles. Phil has 11 championships running the triangle. Pop won 4 with the same slow, defensive style.




And I think it's safe to say if D'Antoni couldn't win - or even make a Finals - with those Phoenix teams, his style won't work in the playoffs. Nash, Amar'e, Joe Johnson, Marion, QRich, Diaw, Barbosa, Bell, etc.

With regard to Pop, I think part of the reason the Spurs are struggling to beat the Grizzlies right now is that they are trying to go back to their slow, defensive style instead of sticking with the fast, offensive style that won them so many games in the regular season.  They are playing more like the 7-seed Spurs of last season instead of the 1-seed Spurs of this season.

[willis33]

Hard to make a what if argument.  I believe Doc has had more of an influence on Rondo's performance then the big three.  But, I'll chime in anyway.  I definitely think his scoring would be up, but I don't see his assists going down, and I see more rebounding.  The Celtics play by far the slowest game in the league and take the least (by far) amount of shots.  Rondo had 760 assists this year, the C's took 6219 shots(3023 made) Minn took 7014 shots (3090 made)  Now look at the style's they play.  Minnesota is in the run run run west where most teams don't get back and play little D when they do.  So yes, he wouldn't have ray and KG's shooting percentage, but the guys he'd be getting open jumpers for would still hit some and he'd be getting 10 assists per game alone from fast break layups and alley oops.

Anyway, I was disappointed with D'antonio after hearing he said this.  He should know better than playing the what if game.  10 years down the road he'll being saying what if...... the Lakers and Spurs weren't soo good when he coached the Suns and what if.....  the Celts didn't have the big 4, what if...... we were able to sign Chris Paul.  More successful coaches are finding ways to deal with problems then asking what if they didn't exist.  What if........  D'Antonio's fast break offense wasn't proven to fail over and over again in the playoffs.

[Rondo9dunx]

'antoni shoul be coachin college. His play style is much better suite for college than the NBA. I' like to see how well he oes coaching minnesota.

[Kiorrik]

I'd love to see a topic title tomorrow saying:

Rondo on D'antoni: "Mike who?"

[Rondo9dunx]

I'd love to see a topic title tomorrow saying:

Rondo on 'antoni: "Mike who?"

Fixed that for you. There's no D... There's no D

[Kiorrik]

I'd love to see a topic title tomorrow saying:

Rondo on 'antoni: "Mike who?"

Fixed that for you. There's no D... There's no D

Keep screwing that one up. Cheers for that.

[Rondo9dunx]

I'd love to see a topic title tomorrow saying:

Rondo on 'antoni: "Mike who?"

Fixed that for you. There's no D... There's no D

Keep screwing that one up. Cheers for that.

Happens to us all.

I am still feeling the homer rage from that comment.

Rondo Dangerfield gets no respect.

[chambers]

again we have some more gamesmanship before a crucial game. Possibly D'antoni's last game as a Knick.
He'll say and do anything to try and get inside Rondos head and give his team an edge.

Now to answer D'antoni's statement:
If Rondo were on Minnesota he'd average 20 points and 7-10 assists easily and probably carry that team to a top 6 seed with no problem.

I wouldn't buy into statements like this anyway. It's complete mental messing and gamesmanship at the highest level.
Problem is it either gets in the opponents head or it motivates the opponent to destroy you like he has done.

[2short]

Agreed. Rose lack of decision-making/distribution/creativity skills are the main reason. He create shots for his teammates by attacking from a top pick'n'roll or an iso and forcing the defense to collapse on him. But he's not a floor-general by any means. There's a reason why the Bulls are an ordinary offensive team. Give Deron Williams that supporting cast and the Bulls are a top-5 offense. 

wow, you give Deron that Bulls team and I'm not confident the Celtics can get past them. Deron is huge, D-Rose, not so much.

By the way, I remember watching D'Antoni playing in Milan, and he was a great player, all smarts and guts. I was surprised when I saw his coaching style, but with Steve Nash on board he looked like a great coach.

I can see he's frustrated, but it's not a great thing to say if you are an NBA coach.

I think D'Antoni is a great coach. He's a true believer in his system, so he needs players that fit it.

  Great coaches come up with a system to fit the players they have as opposed to needing players that fit a certain system to coach effectively.

How many coaches have made drastic changes to their coaching philosophies? AND had success?

I'll count Popovich because he actually did AND had the best record, but nobody will be surprised if they don't make the WCF.

But nobody in my mind has won championships with different styles. Phil has 11 championships running the triangle. Pop won 4 with the same slow, defensive style.




And I think it's safe to say if D'Antoni couldn't win - or even make a Finals - with those Phoenix teams, his style won't work in the playoffs. Nash, Amar'e, Joe Johnson, Marion, QRich, Diaw, Barbosa, Bell, etc.

Pat Riley Knicks vs Pat Riley Lakers
pretty much 2 different teams, completely
yes the knicks didn't win it all but were close

[BballTim]

How about the companion question of "If a point guard plays with 3 potential HOFs or 3 All Stars, is it a guarantee that his assists will increase by a significant number?"

What's Chalmers or Bibby's assist numbers while serving as the point guard of Bosh, LeBron & Wade?

Both LeBron and Wade are ball-dominant players, so neither Chalmers nor Bibby get the opportunity to run the offense.  Neither Bibby nor Chalmers are particularly great passers, either.  Also, of the Heat's Big 3 only Chris Bosh is an above average jumpshooter for his position.

What makes Boston such a great situation for a passing point guard is that the starting lineup is stocked with three future HoFers who happen to be among the best jumpshooters at their respective positions.  Surrounding a point guard with great shooters is the easiest way to give him a lot of assists other than pairing him with a dominant big man.

  Those guys shoot well but they also pass the ball a lot. They aren't ball-dominant (anymore) but they aren't exactly spot up shooters. Minny's 2-3-4 starters take 6 shots per every assist, Boston's 4.3. Players on most teams are much more likely to shoot instead of pass than the big three when Rondo would get them the ball. Even if they miss more shots than the big three Rondo would get more assists on the same amount of passes.

Still, it takes a great point guard to take full advantage of ideal circumstances.  The Big 3 depend on Rondo as much as he depends on them.

That doesn't mean I don't think Rondo would be much less formidable on a worse team, though, since he's not great at creating his own shot consistently.

  He's much better at it than people here give him credit for. He doesn't go into games with the mindset that he's going to get a lot of shots, he goes into the game with the expectation that he'll be getting other people involved in the offense. When he goes into a game with his mind made up to score (like in game 2) he's generally fairly successful.

[BballTim]

Agreed. Rose lack of decision-making/distribution/creativity skills are the main reason. He create shots for his teammates by attacking from a top pick'n'roll or an iso and forcing the defense to collapse on him. But he's not a floor-general by any means. There's a reason why the Bulls are an ordinary offensive team. Give Deron Williams that supporting cast and the Bulls are a top-5 offense. 

wow, you give Deron that Bulls team and I'm not confident the Celtics can get past them. Deron is huge, D-Rose, not so much.

By the way, I remember watching D'Antoni playing in Milan, and he was a great player, all smarts and guts. I was surprised when I saw his coaching style, but with Steve Nash on board he looked like a great coach.

I can see he's frustrated, but it's not a great thing to say if you are an NBA coach.

I think D'Antoni is a great coach. He's a true believer in his system, so he needs players that fit it.

  Great coaches come up with a system to fit the players they have as opposed to needing players that fit a certain system to coach effectively.

How many coaches have made drastic changes to their coaching philosophies? AND had success?

I'll count Popovich because he actually did AND had the best record, but nobody will be surprised if they don't make the WCF.

But nobody in my mind has won championships with different styles. Phil has 11 championships running the triangle. Pop won 4 with the same slow, defensive style.

  I don't think that slow pace and good defense really counts as an iron-clad style. Does Pop run the same offense with Parker and Ginobili that he ran with the Robinson-Duncan pairing? And we're talking about D'Antoni. Why are you bringing up winning titles?

[BballTim]

Obviously if he was on a lesser team, Rondos team wouldn't enjoy as much success, but what D'Antoni is alluding to (and I'm agreeing with), is that Rondos individual production would also fall.  I don't think he'd have better assists, because no other team runs so many sets solely through their PG, AND has as good finishers.  I don't think he'd be as efficient a scorer, because he would actually have to score against pressure defense, since his supporting cast wouldn't be as good (which subsequently creates the spacing he enjoys on his shot and drives).

Basically, it would put Rondo in a situation, where he had to be able to either create his own shot, or drive through traffic, to be effective. If he had the same shooting ability and FT capabilities as the PGs that most people prefer to him, then yes...he'd become almost like them. Unfortunately he doesn't, and that's where I think D'Antonis point lies.

The only aspect of Rondo's performance I'd expect to fall with lesser teammates would be his FG%.  His work in the 2009 playoffs with a mediocre/weak front line and only Ray and Pierce to help was indicative of what he can do with a less than stellar supporting cast.

  It showed us how he could do when he was 23 or so, played a boatload of minutes in every (or almost every) game of the Chicago series and sprained his ankle a couple of times in the playoffs.

[dtrader]

Obviously if he was on a lesser team, Rondos team wouldn't enjoy as much success, but what D'Antoni is alluding to (and I'm agreeing with), is that Rondos individual production would also fall.  I don't think he'd have better assists, because no other team runs so many sets solely through their PG, AND has as good finishers.  I don't think he'd be as efficient a scorer, because he would actually have to score against pressure defense, since his supporting cast wouldn't be as good (which subsequently creates the spacing he enjoys on his shot and drives).

Basically, it would put Rondo in a situation, where he had to be able to either create his own shot, or drive through traffic, to be effective. If he had the same shooting ability and FT capabilities as the PGs that most people prefer to him, then yes...he'd become almost like them. Unfortunately he doesn't, and that's where I think D'Antonis point lies.

The only aspect of Rondo's performance I'd expect to fall with lesser teammates would be his FG%.  His work in the 2009 playoffs with a mediocre/weak front line and only Ray and Pierce to help was indicative of what he can do with a less than stellar supporting cast.

  It showed us how he could do when he was 23 or so, played a boatload of minutes in every (or almost every) game of the Chicago series and sprained his ankle a couple of times in the playoffs.

Wasn't that when Big baby earned the nickname "ticket stub" for how well he played in KGs spot?  And Rondo still had PP/Ray, and a center (perk) who was top 3 in the league in FG%.  That scenario says nothing to the arguement that Rondo would play worse with a lesser supporting cast. The whole point (as I see it), is that if he's on a team where the players around him don't demand consistent attention, then the D can collapse on him, and he would have to create his own shot or drive through multiple defenders to score.

If he really was the "second coming of Jason Kidd", then he'd be shooting 80% FTs instead of 56%. If he was on a lesser team where more of the scoring load fell to him, and he got to the line 10x a game, that percentage would be extremely costly. It's not like Shaq where you can take him out the last 2 minutes so they can't foul him. For a PG who's responsible for running the offense, it'd either be finish the game with a PG (shooting 56% at the line) who will consistently be put on the line to shoot pressure FTs, or take out your starting PG, and close the game with a backup PG...neither is conducive to winning close games.

I think if Rondo was on a bad team, his shooting would single handedly lose them as many games as his defense/speed won them. He'd be a 15/8 guy (with poor shooting percentages) on a bad team, and no one would care about him at all. How many Kyle Lowry Jerseys sold this yr? lol.

[Reyquila]

is D'Antoni a moron or what? Of course Rondo's number would not be the same if he played for Minn. But then his numbers might be even better if he played for Miami or the Lakers> What is that guy trying to prove; that Rondo is good just because he plays for the Celtics? Looks like he is bleeding from the lessons that Rondo was giving the Knicks and he had to lash away in ghis frustration. D'Antoni is just showing a lack of character. No wonder the Knicks were swept. I cannot believe he would stoop so low as to try to demean Rondo because Rondo was a one-man wrecking crew against his hapless Knicks, who with a better coach might have won a game or two. Geeeeeeesh, what a loser!

[michael32951]

Just sour grapes from the man who sold Rondo's rights to sign Marcus Banks.....now Rondo is breaking his back, records, and probably D'Antoni's position as head coach.