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Author Topic: play Jeff Green (mostly) at the 3  (Read 6831 times)

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play Jeff Green (mostly) at the 3
« on: April 06, 2011, 07:25:17 AM »

Offline Jeff

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I know Doc has raved about his versatility and the option of using him in a "Posey" role in small lineups - and that's fine for short stretches or for matchup purposes, but I'm becoming more convinced every day that Jeff Green should be used mostly at the backup 3

consider Zach Lowe's research:

http://nba-point-forward.si.com/2011/04/05/green-not-living-up-to-celtics-hopes-yet/

Quote
Again: It’s worth nothing that Oklahoma’s defense struggled horribly when Green played power forward compared to when Green played small forward, and opposing power forwards regularly lit up the Thunder with Green on the floor at that spot. That was a bigger problem with the Thunder because Green was their starting power forward and played a much higher percentage of his minutes at that position in Oklahoma City than he will in Boston. Perhaps Green’s size disadvantage against power forwards is a bigger deal than his alleged quickness disadvantage against small forwards?

last night, it can't be any surprise that Green's 4th quarter explosion happened with him playing the 3 (with Delonte, Ray, Baby, and Krstic rounding out the rotation)

I know Pierce is going to play long minutes in the playoffs, but lets not get too cute with putting Jeff Green in positions where he won't fare as well
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Re: play Jeff Green (mostly) at the 3
« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2011, 07:34:51 AM »

Offline clover

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Having JO and Curly back healthy should do a lot to put Baby back at the 4--and let Green stay more at the 3.
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Re: play Jeff Green (mostly) at the 3
« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2011, 07:54:28 AM »

Offline Drucci

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Agreed, Jeff is at his best on both ends when playing the 3. And he definitely looks more confident/aggressive when playing this spot.

Also, I like the Pierce at the 2/Green at the 3 combo, it's proven to be quite effective in terms of mismatch and good on defense too. I don't know if we will see a lot of it in the playoffs (I suspect there will be more Ray/Green combos) but it's a good option to have.
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Re: play Jeff Green (mostly) at the 3
« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2011, 08:18:05 AM »

Offline 2short

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Mostly is the key word, I love him as backup to Paul, giving both more energy and rest when needed.  I would like to see him get minutes at pf platooning with davis who still can't figure out when to pass (if at all)
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Re: play Jeff Green (mostly) at the 3
« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2011, 08:24:46 AM »

Offline MVP

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Agreed. I think Thunders fans were saying this when the trade happened and it has proven to be true in his games here that he is much more effective playing the sf then the pf. We needed to play him at pf because of so many injuries, but with us having 4 healthy bigs now with KG/Davis/Krstic/JO and hopefully Shaq coming back soon, Green should play most of his minutes at the 3. The only time he should be playing the 4 is at end of quarter offensive possessions just to have a 3 point shooter out there to spread the floor.

The reason why Green is much more effective as a 3 is because his offensive game is based mostly around his post up game which is much more effective against 3s then 4s. On the other hand, he hasn't shown the ability to beat 4s off the dribble consistently. Also his rebounding is awful and interior defense isn't too good which hurts us more when he is playing the 4 then the 3. So playing the 3, he can utilize his strengths more while his weaknesses are hidden more.

I would also like to see a big line-up sometime with either Rondo or West and Pierce/Green/KG/Shaq, that would be interesting to see how that line-up does if Shaq ever gets healthy.
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Re: play Jeff Green (mostly) at the 3
« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2011, 08:37:47 AM »

Offline Michael Anthony

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SIGNED!

I can get behind the idea of playing Green at the four against stretch fours that Baby struggles against - think Bosh / R. Lewis / Bonner.

The kid is such a plus athlete running the court, that you hate for him to get bogged down in the post on defense.
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Re: play Jeff Green (mostly) at the 3
« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2011, 08:45:32 AM »

Offline rickyfan3.0...

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I've done a 180 on this trade. I am just not a Jeff Green guy after watching him every day, and I don't think we should sign this guy for big money.

What does he do consistently well?

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Re: play Jeff Green (mostly) at the 3
« Reply #7 on: April 06, 2011, 09:02:41 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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I think it's a terrible idea to play Jeff Green at the four next to either Krstic or BBD.  There's just not enough rebounding in that lineup, nor is there a physical presence.  

Now, if Shaq comes back I think Green can play some "small ball" at the four when necessary, and he can play limited minutes next to KG or JO, as well.  

However, I agree with the premise of this thread:  most of Green's minutes should be at small forward (which, I thought, was the reason we made this danged trade in the first place)
« Last Edit: April 06, 2011, 09:24:50 AM by Roy H. »
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Re: play Jeff Green (mostly) at the 3
« Reply #8 on: April 06, 2011, 09:22:35 AM »

Offline Dunn

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Quote from: Roy H. on April 06, 2011, 09:02:41 AM
I think it's a terrible idea to play Jeff Green at the four next to either Krstic or BBD.  There's just not enough rebounding in that lineup, nor is there a physical presence.  

Now, if Shaq comes back I think Green can play some "small ball" at the four when necessary, and he can play limited minutes next to Shaq, as well.  

However, I agree with the premise of this thread:  most of Green's minutes should be at small forward (which, I thought, was the reason we made this danged trade in the first place)
TP Roy, everybody sees Rondo clicking with Green, but Doc stubbornly doesn't even try to use that rotation. He payed for forcing Baby last night and once again saw a 12 point lead turn into a 4 point lead. I agree Jeff should play more at small forward but only after being the first sub playing pf with KG. You do it to run and fast break because that's what Rondo wants to do, it opens up the floor. Baby is a spacing nightmare which explains why players always dumping the ball to him, awful offense.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2011, 09:35:23 AM by Dunn »
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Re: play Jeff Green (mostly) at the 3
« Reply #9 on: April 06, 2011, 09:23:02 AM »

Offline LooseCannon

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Some people claim that the Bulls have trouble against small ball lineups when Boozer is not in the game and they don't have an offensively gifted big to take advantage of the mismatch.

The Suns have at times annoyed the Lakers with small ball lineups.

The Heat sometimes go with a small lineup where Lebron is the power forward and James Jones or Mike Miller is the small forward.

The 76ers like to use a lineup with Elton Brand and Thaddeus Young as their bigs.

The Mavericks and Spurs both use small-ball lineups.

Against some of those teams, a front line of Green paired with KG or Jermaine O'Neal may look more appetizing than Garnett with an O'Neal, or some configuration involving Krstic or Davis.
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Re: play Jeff Green (mostly) at the 3
« Reply #10 on: April 06, 2011, 09:24:31 AM »

Offline Fafnir

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Quote from: Roy H. on April 06, 2011, 09:02:41 AM
I think it's a terrible idea to play Jeff Green at the four next to either Krstic or BBD.  There's just not enough rebounding in that lineup, nor is there a physical presence.  

Now, if Shaq comes back I think Green can play some "small ball" at the four when necessary, and he can play limited minutes next to KG, as well.  

However, I agree with the premise of this thread:  most of Green's minutes should be at small forward (which, I thought, was the reason we made this danged trade in the first place)
If the other team is going small I have no problem with Green playing PF with KG/Jermaine at the 5.

But I wouldn't make that as part of the C's regular plan.
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Re: play Jeff Green (mostly) at the 3
« Reply #11 on: April 06, 2011, 09:45:52 AM »

Offline Brendan

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Co-sign.

Green at PF is actually a good option with Shaq at C, but if Shaq is starting that won't happen. It's okay with JO or KG at C, but terrible with Kristic or BBD at C. Green at PF is a good option when matching up with a small ball lineup from the other team (e.g. if MIA goes Bosh, Lebron, Miller, Wade, PG).

But I'd prefer to get Green some more minutes (at SF) by playing Pierce some at SG. That lineup can abuse other teams in the post.
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Re: play Jeff Green (mostly) at the 3
« Reply #12 on: April 06, 2011, 09:59:19 AM »

Offline BudweiserCeltic

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I'm quite fine with Green at the 4, but it's solely depending on who the other team has at the 4 and we have a real center, especially a defensive big, with him. Makes little sense to have him at the 4 with Baby at the 5, or Krstic with that matter. I'm comfortable with him at the 4 if he's in there with KG, JO, or Shaq.
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Re: play Jeff Green (mostly) at the 3
« Reply #13 on: April 06, 2011, 10:18:28 AM »

Offline Chris

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I couldn't agree more.  Every time I see him at the 4, I am absolutely shocked that OKC was able to be a playoff team starting him at that position.  It just shows how good Durant and Westbrook really are. 

This guy is a classic "power 3".  When he is playing the 4, he doesn't have the size to play in the post, and he doesn't have the handle to take advantage of his speed advantage on anything other than the fast break.  However, when you put him at SF, he has the quickness to cover his man (and his length helps as well), but offensively, he can really take advantage of his size, and his low post game against the smaller defenders.

Luckily, this morning on the radio, Doc made it pretty clear that he felt Green was a SF as well.  He said that it was good that they had him to cover SF's playing PF, like Thadeus Young, but other than that, he really is best suited to be playing SF.  So, I imagine we will be seeing a lot less of Green at the 4, now that they are getting healthy up front again, and are not forced to play him there out of necessity. 
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Re: play Jeff Green (mostly) at the 3
« Reply #14 on: April 06, 2011, 10:26:23 AM »

Offline Cman

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Quote from: Jeff on April 06, 2011, 07:25:17 AM
I know Pierce is going to play long minutes in the playoffs, but lets not get too cute with putting Jeff Green in positions where he won't fare as well

Couldn't agree more.  Can you cc Doc on this?
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