Patriots 2011 Regular Season

[Greenbean]

Dallas Cowboys
Green Bay Packers
Chicago Bears
Detroit Lions
NY Jets
NY Giants
New Orleans Saints
Atlanta Falcons

What do all these teams have in common?

They ALL allow more points per game than the Pats do this year...

There are only a couple of elite defenses this year and after that, they are all inconsistent and mediocre in my opinion.

So enough with this team doesnt have the defense to win a championship.

I am more worried that the offense wont figure out how to score 20 points than I am about the defense.

This is a typical bend but dont break defense and theyre breaking ALOT less lately. Theyre even making more plays (sacks and INTs). These no name secondary players are taking better angles and playing better than our name guys that we released IMO.

I'm excited to see how this plays out and to see this defense gain confidence against some really crappy offensive teams.

I see where you are coming from, and I see some improvement in the Pats defense, but I need to keep seeing the improvement before I'm convinced it's not a fluke.

Regarding the offense, I think the loss of the C (Koppen) has hurt more than expected.

I also am not 100% convinced they can win a championship but I just get the feeling that people think the Packers, Lions, Giants, Jets etc. have drastically better defenses than the Pats...just isnt true.

You are right about Koppen. The line has struggled to keep Brady out of trouble especially with pressure up the middle. Hopefully they shore that up or you will see another one and done most lekely in the playoffs.

[Eja117]

Can anyone name me a better TE in this league than Gronk?  Besides maybe Aaron Hernandez if he's having a very good day? 

Those two guys make it so you can't count out the Pats against anyone. If you're a defensive coordinator I'm sure they give you nightmares. If I were a defensive coordinator I would actually try to invent a hybrid defensive position to defend them. I'd be like "If I can get a guy about as athletic as that I can make him a one on one defender. Hmmmm. How do I get a mountain man who runs like that? Hmmm"

Also I do not understand for the life of me why Chas Ocho no go is on the team anymore. They need to tell him "New rule. You can tweet one time for every one pass you catch".  Let that go for three weeks then dump him and bring in a DB

[CDawg834]

It's 10:21 AM and Ross Ventrone has not yet been released.

[Cman]

I need to see how this defense will respond to more top competition, unfortunatley or fortunately depending on how you look at it, we won't see anymore top competition this year until the playoffs

Agreed. On the one hand, its nice to have a bunch of weaker opponents coming up in order to get people healthy, get some newer guys playing time, and get some confidence. On the other hand, it may all be fools gold if it leads to over-confidence.

[Fafnir]

Honestly, we had 6 undrafted free agents playing defense last night.  If we win the superbowl I almost think football as a whole is broken

Naw, you can win with just a single elite unit and an average one on the other side of the ball. Especially with the way the rules are now in the NFL.

The fact that you're using so many undrafted players just goes to show how bad injuries can be and how poorly drafting/fa has gone for NE lately.

NE is below average (16th to 25th on defense depending on your favorite metrics though there isn't much difference between 16 and 25) but they aren't so bad that they aren't contenders. Green Bay's defense is playing around the same caliber of football as NE's for example.

The only reason GB hasn't lost a game or two like NE is that they've avoided turnovers better.

[Eja117]

To be fair injuries on offense sort of cancel out injuries and bad play on defense. Yes we have a ton of hurt guys on D, but there are multiple teams like the Chiefs missing their QB or best players.

We went thru that once.

[Greenbean]

Honestly, we had 6 undrafted free agents playing defense last night.  If we win the superbowl I almost think football as a whole is broken

Naw, you can win with just a single elite unit and an average one on the other side of the ball. Especially with the way the rules are now in the NFL.

The fact that you're using so many undrafted players just goes to show how bad injuries can be and how poorly drafting/fa has gone for NE lately.

NE is below average (16th to 25th on defense depending on your favorite metrics though there isn't much difference between 16 and 25) but they aren't so bad that they aren't contenders. Green Bay's defense is playing around the same caliber of football as NE's for example.

The only reason GB hasn't lost a game or two like NE is that they've avoided turnovers better.

Exactly...TP

Also, after last night they moved up to 10th from 16th in scoring defense.

[Neurotic Guy]

Honestly, we had 6 undrafted free agents playing defense last night.  If we win the superbowl I almost think football as a whole is broken

Yes -- the Pats will have to become a legit average defense to have a chance to win it all.  But, right now the only team head and shoulders above the Pats is GB.  Pats can play with every other playoff team. Not saying they win, but have a good shot against anyone but GB.  To beat GB (if GB gets there), Pat's D must get healthy and be better than average -- they will get torn apart if they aren't solid.

[Rondo2287]

Since 2007, Notable defense players drafted

Brandon Merriweather - first round -Decent player but Cut
Jerod Mayo - First Round - Good Tackler, not a true difference maker
Terrence Wheatley - Second Round - Cut
Shaun Crable - Third Round - Cut
Jonathan Wilhite - 4th round - Cut
Patrick Chung - 2nd Round - Pretty good
Ron Brace - 2nd Round - Soon to be Cut
Darius Butler - 2nd Round - Cut
Tyron Mckenzie - 3rd Round - Cut
Myron Pryor - 6th round - Role player when healthy
Devin Mccourty - 1st Round - Good player, having an off year
Jermaine Cunningham - 2nd round- no playing time soon to be cut
Brandon Spikes - 2nd Round - Pretty good player, tough time staying on the field
Ras - I Dowling - 2nd Round - Injured


14 Pretty high picks over the past several years, only 4 guys that are serviceable on this defense

[Fafnir]

I also am not 100% convinced they can win a championship but I just get the feeling that people think the Packers, Lions, Giants, Jets etc. have drastically better defenses than the Pats...just isnt true.

First of all Green Bay's defense isn't good this year, they've been pretty bad actually only a lot of turnovers have kept them around average. Turnovers are something that's tough to rely on that much as a defense.

NE is a worse defense than the others you name, you can't give up 6.1 yards per play (29th in the league) and be as good of defense as Lions/Giants/Jets/Bears.

They give up 7.5 YPA on passes (26th)
They give up 4.3 YPA on rushes (18th)
They give up 4 red scoring opportunities per game (29th)
They give up TDs 50% of the time in the red zone (16th)
They allow for third down conversion 43% of the time (28th)

They definitely have bended and not broken too much, but you can't count on giving up so many yards and scoring chances as it'll eventually bite you.

[Fafnir]

Honestly, we had 6 undrafted free agents playing defense last night.  If we win the superbowl I almost think football as a whole is broken

Naw, you can win with just a single elite unit and an average one on the other side of the ball. Especially with the way the rules are now in the NFL.

The fact that you're using so many undrafted players just goes to show how bad injuries can be and how poorly drafting/fa has gone for NE lately.

NE is below average (16th to 25th on defense depending on your favorite metrics though there isn't much difference between 16 and 25) but they aren't so bad that they aren't contenders. Green Bay's defense is playing around the same caliber of football as NE's for example.

The only reason GB hasn't lost a game or two like NE is that they've avoided turnovers better.

Exactly...TP

Also, after last night they moved up to 10th from 16th in scoring defense.

Ah the joys of playing KC at home sans QB/RB.....

[Fafnir]

Since 2007, Notable defense players drafted

Brandon Merriweather - first round -Decent player but Cut
Jerod Mayo - First Round - Good Tackler, not a true difference maker
Terrence Wheatley - Second Round - Cut
Shaun Crable - Third Round - Cut
Jonathan Wilhite - 4th round - Cut
Patrick Chung - 2nd Round - Pretty good
Ron Brace - 2nd Round - Soon to be Cut
Darius Butler - 2nd Round - Cut
Tyron Mckenzie - 3rd Round - Cut
Myron Pryor - 6th round - Role player when healthy
Devin Mccourty - 1st Round - Good player, having an off year
Jermaine Cunningham - 2nd round- no playing time soon to be cut
Brandon Spikes - 2nd Round - Pretty good player, tough time staying on the field
Ras - I Dowling - 2nd Round - Injured


14 Pretty high picks over the past several years, only 4 guys that are serviceable on this defense

Yeah, that'd be okay if you hit a big time blue chip player somewhere in there...

[Rondo2287]

Since 2007, Notable defense players drafted

Brandon Merriweather - first round -Decent player but Cut
Jerod Mayo - First Round - Good Tackler, not a true difference maker
Terrence Wheatley - Second Round - Cut
Shaun Crable - Third Round - Cut
Jonathan Wilhite - 4th round - Cut
Patrick Chung - 2nd Round - Pretty good
Ron Brace - 2nd Round - Soon to be Cut
Darius Butler - 2nd Round - Cut
Tyron Mckenzie - 3rd Round - Cut
Myron Pryor - 6th round - Role player when healthy
Devin Mccourty - 1st Round - Good player, having an off year
Jermaine Cunningham - 2nd round- no playing time soon to be cut
Brandon Spikes - 2nd Round - Pretty good player, tough time staying on the field
Ras - I Dowling - 2nd Round - Injured


14 Pretty high picks over the past several years, only 4 guys that are serviceable on this defense

Yeah, that'd be okay if you hit a big time blue chip player somewhere in there...

If you replace Jerod Mayo with Patrick Willis I think we would be ok

[Cman]

Since 2007, Notable defense players drafted

Brandon Merriweather - first round -Decent player but Cut
Jerod Mayo - First Round - Good Tackler, not a true difference maker
Terrence Wheatley - Second Round - Cut
Shaun Crable - Third Round - Cut
Jonathan Wilhite - 4th round - Cut
Patrick Chung - 2nd Round - Pretty good
Ron Brace - 2nd Round - Soon to be Cut
Darius Butler - 2nd Round - Cut
Tyron Mckenzie - 3rd Round - Cut
Myron Pryor - 6th round - Role player when healthy
Devin Mccourty - 1st Round - Good player, having an off year
Jermaine Cunningham - 2nd round- no playing time soon to be cut
Brandon Spikes - 2nd Round - Pretty good player, tough time staying on the field
Ras - I Dowling - 2nd Round - Injured


14 Pretty high picks over the past several years, only 4 guys that are serviceable on this defense

i'm with you that the defense leads a lot to be desired, but... I think your methodology can be called into question. Is 4/14 good or bad? How does this record stack up against other GMs? Should you weight 6th round picks (Pryor) as much as 1st round picks (Mayo)?

[Rondo2287]

Since 2007, Notable defense players drafted

Brandon Merriweather - first round -Decent player but Cut
Jerod Mayo - First Round - Good Tackler, not a true difference maker
Terrence Wheatley - Second Round - Cut
Shaun Crable - Third Round - Cut
Jonathan Wilhite - 4th round - Cut
Patrick Chung - 2nd Round - Pretty good
Ron Brace - 2nd Round - Soon to be Cut
Darius Butler - 2nd Round - Cut
Tyron Mckenzie - 3rd Round - Cut
Myron Pryor - 6th round - Role player when healthy
Devin Mccourty - 1st Round - Good player, having an off year
Jermaine Cunningham - 2nd round- no playing time soon to be cut
Brandon Spikes - 2nd Round - Pretty good player, tough time staying on the field
Ras - I Dowling - 2nd Round - Injured


14 Pretty high picks over the past several years, only 4 guys that are serviceable on this defense

i'm with you that the defense leads a lot to be desired, but... I think your methodology can be called into question. Is 4/14 good or bad? How does this record stack up against other GMs? Should you weight 6th round picks (Pryor) as much as 1st round picks (Mayo)?

Im not trying to just give blanket statements good or bad, more telling to me is all the cuts that we have since had to replace with undrafted guys.

Right now I kinda think of a our personel decsisions like this.


A poker player can win a hand with 7-2 off suit, but if he trys to play that hand every time he gets it he is going to lose more often than not.  Right now Bill is trying to plug in a bunch of scrap heap players, that may win in the short term but eventually it will catch up to us.