Contract year for Baby makes for a tough decision for the Celtics.

[BballTim]

Also the C's do value him greatly; he's Doc's choice to finish out games over Perk.  This has been the case since Perk came back and was also true last year.

  Last year Perk played 74% of all of our "clutch minutes" (4th quarter or overtime, less than 5 minutes left, neither team ahead by more than 5 points) and Davis played in 7% of those minutes. It wasn't at all true last year.

That was true in the regular season.  Come playoff time, Perk and Baby equally shared crunch time duties (both played crunch time minutes in 6 games apiece, while Sheed played in the other 2).  

I assume they'll continue to share crunch time duties as long as both stay healthy, with Perk being the defensive crunch time option at center and Baby the offensive option.  As much as I enjoy me some Perk, Baby has seemingly hit more 4th quarter jumpers than anyone on this team this year, even in games where he's been so-so through the first 3 quarters.  He's just a big time, clutch player, and when you play him with the Big 4 he's going to be left open all the time.  

  I'd be curious about how many of those 6 games of Baby's were when Perk was either injured or in foul trouble.

Go look at popcorn game machine game flows. They'll have all the relevant info.

  Eventually. First I have to watch the Larry Bird youtube clip in another thread. Priorities, you know?

[SalmonAndMashedPotatoes]

Also the C's do value him greatly; he's Doc's choice to finish out games over Perk.  This has been the case since Perk came back and was also true last year.

  Last year Perk played 74% of all of our "clutch minutes" (4th quarter or overtime, less than 5 minutes left, neither team ahead by more than 5 points) and Davis played in 7% of those minutes. It wasn't at all true last year.

That was true in the regular season.  Come playoff time, Perk and Baby equally shared crunch time duties (both played crunch time minutes in 6 games apiece, while Sheed played in the other 2).  

I assume they'll continue to share crunch time duties as long as both stay healthy, with Perk being the defensive crunch time option at center and Baby the offensive option.  As much as I enjoy me some Perk, Baby has seemingly hit more 4th quarter jumpers than anyone on this team this year, even in games where he's been so-so through the first 3 quarters.  He's just a big time, clutch player, and when you play him with the Big 4 he's going to be left open all the time.  

  I'd be curious about how many of those 6 games of Baby's were when Perk was either injured or in foul trouble.

That only includes the games where Baby, Perk, and Sheed were all healthy (so it doesn't include game 6 or 7 of the Finals).  And there was only one crunch time game in which Perk fouled out early--game 2 against Orlando--and Baby closed that game. 

[Prof. Clutch]

Glen has never shied away from the opportunity for a bigger stage and hasn't yet gotten the "big payday" I'm sure he's hoping for.  I can only assume that some team will make a play for Baby at the seasons end with an offer that's more than we should/can offer him.

[Casperian]

He's in many ways not very good, most notably rebounding. He's arguably the worst rebounding PF / C in the league.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/pf/sort/reboundRate/page/2

The only PFs in the league who play more minutes but rebound less efficiently are Michael Beasley, Rashard Lewis and Boris Diaw. And contracts being equal, I'd happily trade Glen for any one of those 3 considering the other elements they bring to the table.  

You mean the guy who is league-wide considered as a top contender for 6th man of the year isn´t very good (in many ways!), and you try to prove it with some arbitrary stat?

That makes sense...

[mmbaby]

According to NBA.com, BBD is second highest rebounder on our team behind KG and 4th in scoring behind PP, RA and KG.
How about those stats?

Where do you get your 'facts', Suspense?

[wdleehi]

According to NBA.com, BBD is second highest rebounder on our team behind KG and 4th in scoring behind PP, RA and KG.
How about those stats?

Where do you get your 'facts', Suspense?

Look at the rate.  5.2 rebounds in 30 minutes is terrible for a PF/C. 


Perk in 27 minutes average 8.5

Shaq, playing on average 9 less minutes is only .3 rebounds per game behind him.

In rebounds per 48 minutes, Davis is the 81st ranked PF.  188 the among all players.


As a PF, his rebounding is weak. 

[Megatron]

I dont see any team that is going to pay BBD big bucks, and he certainly wont start, he has the perfect game to play the "6th man role" but other then that hes shown us he cannot play starters minutes and be a productive starting PF.

Other teams know this, his best bet is to stay with the C's and im sure they will work it out someway.

[ssspence]

According to NBA.com, BBD is second highest rebounder on our team behind KG and 4th in scoring behind PP, RA and KG.
How about those stats?

Where do you get your 'facts', Suspense?

What're saying is the Celtics are one of the worst rebounding teams in the league -- which they are. Well done.

I've no interest in overpaying a PF that can't rebound. The Cs are going to have to make a choice between signing Baby and Perk. Is there any doubt which one they'll prioritize?

Baby will be playing elsewhere next year. Let's hope he continues to perform in other areas at a high level en route to an NBA Championship in 2011.

[Assassin70]

I dont see any team that is going to pay BBD big bucks, and he certainly wont start, he has the perfect game to play the "6th man role" but other then that hes shown us he cannot play starters minutes and be a productive starting PF.

Other teams know this, his best bet is to stay with the C's and im sure they will work it out someway.

/agree 100%

[mmbaby]

According to NBA.com, BBD is second highest rebounder on our team behind KG and 4th in scoring behind PP, RA and KG.
How about those stats?

Where do you get your 'facts', Suspense?

Look at the rate.  5.2 rebounds in 30 minutes is terrible for a PF/C. 


Perk in 27 minutes average 8.5

Shaq, playing on average 9 less minutes is only .3 rebounds per game behind him.

In rebounds per 48 minutes, Davis is the 81st ranked PF.  188 the among all players.


As a PF, his rebounding is weak. 

It doesn't matter. If you're going to put BBD down for this specific thing, what about the rest of the bigs? If that is your argument for not keeping him here, it falls on its face. Sorry, but let's just agree to disagree.

[Donoghus]

According to NBA.com, BBD is second highest rebounder on our team behind KG and 4th in scoring behind PP, RA and KG.
How about those stats?

Where do you get your 'facts', Suspense?

Look at the rate.  5.2 rebounds in 30 minutes is terrible for a PF/C. 


Perk in 27 minutes average 8.5

Shaq, playing on average 9 less minutes is only .3 rebounds per game behind him.

In rebounds per 48 minutes, Davis is the 81st ranked PF.  188 the among all players.


As a PF, his rebounding is weak. 

It doesn't matter. If you're going to put BBD down for this specific thing, what about the rest of the bigs? If that is your argument for not keeping him here, it falls on its face. Sorry, but let's just agree to disagree.

Actually, it does matter.  Rebounds and rebounding rates are two different things.  Most will argue that rebounding rate is a truer indicator of a player's worth. 

BBD is playing a ton of minutes so, of course, his total rebound numbers are going to be high for the team.  He's playing more minutes to get those rebounds. 

However, his rate is extremely low for a guy in his position.  The rates for the Celtics bigs are much better than BBD's.  People will point to that when debating BBD's value.  Rate hurts BBD. 

[mmbaby]

Yeah, that is true, Donoghus. I'm sure he will need to work on it and should start doing that now. I have noticed several games where he's there for the rebound but KG grabs it, and Baby lets him, it seems, out of respect.

It doesn't seem to have had a bad effect on our team overall. I mean we are doing quite well.

But I would think he knows this is something he'll have to work on.

[Roy H.]

According to NBA.com, BBD is second highest rebounder on our team behind KG and 4th in scoring behind PP, RA and KG.
How about those stats?

Where do you get your 'facts', Suspense?

Look at the rate.  5.2 rebounds in 30 minutes is terrible for a PF/C. 


Perk in 27 minutes average 8.5

Shaq, playing on average 9 less minutes is only .3 rebounds per game behind him.

In rebounds per 48 minutes, Davis is the 81st ranked PF.  188 the among all players.


As a PF, his rebounding is weak. 

It doesn't matter. If you're going to put BBD down for this specific thing, what about the rest of the bigs? If that is your argument for not keeping him here, it falls on its face. Sorry, but let's just agree to disagree.

You're misunderstanding, and are focused on raw numbers again.  Here are how our bigs break down:

Perk:  10.8 rebounds per 36 minutes, grabs 18.7% of all available team rebounds
KG:  10.3 rebounds per 36 minutes, grabs 17.8% of all available team rebounds
Shaq: 8.5 rebounds per 36 minutes, grabs 14.8% of all available team rebounds
Luke: 8.1 rebounds per 36 minutes, grabs 13.9% of all available team rebounds
JO: 7.5 rebounds per 36 minutes, grabs 13.0% of all available team rebounds
Semih:  7.4 rebounds per 36 minutes, grabs 12.8% of all available team rebounds
BBD:  6.4 rebounds per 36 minutes, grabs 11.0% of all available team rebounds

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BOS/2011.html

In other words, by any objective measure, BBD is the worst rebounder among our bigs.  There's definitely room for improvement among everyone, but it's BBD that is the biggest culprit in terms of poor rebounding for his position.  That doesn't mean he doesn't do other things well, but rebounding just isn't a strength (or even something he's average at.)

[wdleehi]

According to NBA.com, BBD is second highest rebounder on our team behind KG and 4th in scoring behind PP, RA and KG.
How about those stats?

Where do you get your 'facts', Suspense?

Look at the rate.  5.2 rebounds in 30 minutes is terrible for a PF/C. 


Perk in 27 minutes average 8.5

Shaq, playing on average 9 less minutes is only .3 rebounds per game behind him.

In rebounds per 48 minutes, Davis is the 81st ranked PF.  188 the among all players.


As a PF, his rebounding is weak. 

It doesn't matter. If you're going to put BBD down for this specific thing, what about the rest of the bigs? If that is your argument for not keeping him here, it falls on its face. Sorry, but let's just agree to disagree.

That's not my argument to get rid of him.  It is the facts about his rebounding.  


It goes towards my argument that he probably is not going to be worth as much in terms of dollars in the new CBA.  


It is why I think you let him play out the year and see what changes and if he is resignable for a good price that does not hamper the Celtics rebuilding in the future.  

[indeedproceed]

Just so everyone knows, rebounding rate is the % of available rebounds a player gets while they're on the floor.

example: I'm in the game for 25 minutes. In those 25 minutes, there are 70 shots. Of those 70 shots, 40 go in. There are 30 available rebounds.

Of those 30, I get 6. So, 6/30=.20, or 20%

So, my rebounding rate would be 20.0 over that 25 minutes.

Glen Davis's rebounding rate is 11.0, that puts him at 78th among all PF's and 59th among power forwards who will play 500 or more minutes this season. Other players in his range are Thaddeus Young and Charlie Villinuava