Author Topic: How is my Pick 2 team?  (Read 203579 times)

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Re: How is my Pick 2 team?
« Reply #630 on: February 11, 2011, 03:39:38 PM »

Offline StartOrien

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I'll put myself on the block:

Introducing my mom's favorite team

PG: Kirk Hinrich / Toney Douglas
SG: Andre Iguodala / Kyle Korver
SF: Carmelo Anthony
PF: Taj Gibson / Patrick Patterson
C: Demarcus Cousins / Andrea Bargnani / Hasheem Thabeet

IR: Yao Ming

I like my team a lot. Strong offensively, pretty strong defensively - really strong actually, but we could struggle against the elite bigs.

Still I think even now - w/ Cousins going bananas lately - that we could still be an elite team, but as stated before I think we hit a roadblock if we see a "gasol type"
« Last Edit: February 11, 2011, 03:44:49 PM by StartOrien »

Re: How is my Pick 2 team?
« Reply #631 on: February 11, 2011, 03:45:15 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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The Old Bucks:

PG: Brandon Jennings/Kenyon Dooling/Earl Boykins
SG: John Salmons/Carlos Delfino/CDR
SF: Corey Maggette/Luc Richard Mbah A Moute
PF: Ersan Ilyasova/Drew Gooden/Larry Sanders
C: Andrew Bogut/Jon Brockman

New Bucks:

PG: Kyle Lowry/Jerryd Bayless
SG: Landry Fields/Reggie Williams/Deshawn Stevenson
SF: Paul Pierce/Shawne Williams
PF: Serge Ibaka/Drew Gooden/Tyler HansBrough
C: Andrew Bogut/Omer Asik

I definitely think I improved the current Bucks significantly.

Same opinion I had before: Better D, worse O. The Bench is better at the 5 and 1 but worse at the wings and comprable at the 4.

The Bucks are currently the lowest scoring team in the NBA, with the lowest FG%. Across the board my guys are better shooters...I don't see how I possibly have a worse offense.


Because you dropped the number of guys in the starting 5 who can consistently create their own shot from 4 to 2.

If the guys in the Bucks starting lineup are consistent scorers good at creating their own shot, how are they all shooting under 45%, excepting Andrew Bogut?

And also, how come Kyle Lowry can't get into the paint? How is Lowry such a downstep from Brandon Jennings?

He shoots a better %, he gets to the line more often, he's got a top ten Assist %, and he's been a better 3pt shooter so far this season.

I cannot see any kind of rational that would say my teams' offense would be worse than they current Bucks.


Well, first off the Brandon Jennings and Kyle Lowry comparisons are misleading because Jennings broke his foot this year. So if you're saying that at this particular moment Kyle Lowry is a better offensive player, I'd still disagree because of Jennings' past production and his demonstrated ability to take over games. While Lowry produces, he is not a game changer offensively nor is he a dynamic offensive player. He is, as the numbers suggest when you use the numbers and not the term " better than"-- for example the difference between their 3 point perentage is .008,  a comprable player to Brandon jennings coming off a broken foot.

There is no way you can convince me that John Salmons and Landry Fields are comprable offensive players.

Pierce is a better player than Maggette, there's no argument, but the drop off from him to Maggette is far shallower than Salmons to Fields or even Jennings to Lowry.



Well let me say this, because I think we're arguing different points.

1) Lowry is a more efficient player this season than Brandon Jennings was last season too. How much of that is due to Jennings' high usage rate or rookie wall or whatever other excuses one might use is an unknown. Lowry this season is a much more efficient player than Jennings.

2) Landry Fields is not as good an individual scorer as John Salmons. When he tries to create his own shot, its not really ever a true iso..he's usually swung the ball while a defender is recovering from a switch or screen or something, and Fields drives to the hoop then. Fields is a better overall player than Salmons though this season, because he's a much better facilitator of the offense, and he's playing within the offense.

Which brings me to my next point...

3) Just because Jennings, Maggette, and Salmons can all 'create their own shots' does not mean they are a better offensive fit than Lowry/Fields/Pierce, or that they even fit well together. A person being able to 'create their own shot' to me means a situation where a player, often in isolation, is in a situation where their defender is not in a positional (on the court, not role-wise) disadvantage. Despite the 'fair' shot (for lack of a better word), the defender still cannot stop the player in question on a regular basis..that's my definition of "creating your own shot".

But then, look at the current Rockets. Lowry-Martin-Battier-Scola-Hill.

I think role-wise, my teams looks a lot like them, but with comparable or better talent at 4 of the 5 roles. Only Kevin Martin is an established "scorer" who can "create his own shot", but somehow these guys are 4th in the league in PPG.

Lowry=Lowry
Fields=Battier (on offense)
Pierce=Martin (Martin is a better pure scorer, Pierce is a better overall player)
Bogut<Scola (Scola is significantly more versatile with the ball in his hands)
Ibaka>Hill

Just because I don't have 4 guys who can take people off the dribble in my starting lineup does not mean that I will have the worst offense in the league...just like having 4 guys who can create their own shot does not mean that good shots are actually being created.

"You've gotta respect a 15-percent 3-point shooter. A guy
like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner

Re: How is my Pick 2 team?
« Reply #632 on: February 11, 2011, 03:57:17 PM »

Offline KCattheStripe

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The Old Bucks:

PG: Brandon Jennings/Kenyon Dooling/Earl Boykins
SG: John Salmons/Carlos Delfino/CDR
SF: Corey Maggette/Luc Richard Mbah A Moute
PF: Ersan Ilyasova/Drew Gooden/Larry Sanders
C: Andrew Bogut/Jon Brockman

New Bucks:

PG: Kyle Lowry/Jerryd Bayless
SG: Landry Fields/Reggie Williams/Deshawn Stevenson
SF: Paul Pierce/Shawne Williams
PF: Serge Ibaka/Drew Gooden/Tyler HansBrough
C: Andrew Bogut/Omer Asik

I definitely think I improved the current Bucks significantly.

Same opinion I had before: Better D, worse O. The Bench is better at the 5 and 1 but worse at the wings and comprable at the 4.

The Bucks are currently the lowest scoring team in the NBA, with the lowest FG%. Across the board my guys are better shooters...I don't see how I possibly have a worse offense.


Because you dropped the number of guys in the starting 5 who can consistently create their own shot from 4 to 2.

If the guys in the Bucks starting lineup are consistent scorers good at creating their own shot, how are they all shooting under 45%, excepting Andrew Bogut?

And also, how come Kyle Lowry can't get into the paint? How is Lowry such a downstep from Brandon Jennings?

He shoots a better %, he gets to the line more often, he's got a top ten Assist %, and he's been a better 3pt shooter so far this season.

I cannot see any kind of rational that would say my teams' offense would be worse than they current Bucks.


Well, first off the Brandon Jennings and Kyle Lowry comparisons are misleading because Jennings broke his foot this year. So if you're saying that at this particular moment Kyle Lowry is a better offensive player, I'd still disagree because of Jennings' past production and his demonstrated ability to take over games. While Lowry produces, he is not a game changer offensively nor is he a dynamic offensive player. He is, as the numbers suggest when you use the numbers and not the term " better than"-- for example the difference between their 3 point perentage is .008,  a comprable player to Brandon jennings coming off a broken foot.

There is no way you can convince me that John Salmons and Landry Fields are comprable offensive players.

Pierce is a better player than Maggette, there's no argument, but the drop off from him to Maggette is far shallower than Salmons to Fields or even Jennings to Lowry.



Well let me say this, because I think we're arguing different points.

1) Lowry is a more efficient player this season than Brandon Jennings was last season too. How much of that is due to Jennings' high usage rate or rookie wall or whatever other excuses one might use is an unknown. Lowry this season is a much more efficient player than Jennings.

2) Landry Fields is not as good an individual scorer as John Salmons. When he tries to create his own shot, its not really ever a true iso..he's usually swung the ball while a defender is recovering from a switch or screen or something, and Fields drives to the hoop then. Fields is a better overall player than Salmons though this season, because he's a much better facilitator of the offense, and he's playing within the offense.

Which brings me to my next point...

3) Just because Jennings, Maggette, and Salmons can all 'create their own shots' does not mean they are a better offensive fit than Lowry/Fields/Pierce, or that they even fit well together. A person being able to 'create their own shot' to me means a situation where a player, often in isolation, is in a situation where their defender is not in a positional (on the court, not role-wise) disadvantage. Despite the 'fair' shot (for lack of a better word), the defender still cannot stop the player in question on a regular basis..that's my definition of "creating your own shot".

But then, look at the current Rockets. Lowry-Martin-Battier-Scola-Hill.

I think role-wise, my teams looks a lot like them, but with comparable or better talent at 4 of the 5 roles. Only Kevin Martin is an established "scorer" who can "create his own shot", but somehow these guys are 4th in the league in PPG.

Lowry=Lowry
Fields=Battier (on offense)
Pierce=Martin (Martin is a better pure scorer, Pierce is a better overall player)
Bogut<Scola (Scola is significantly more versatile with the ball in his hands)
Ibaka>Hill

Just because I don't have 4 guys who can take people off the dribble in my starting lineup does not mean that I will have the worst offense in the league...just like having 4 guys who can create their own shot does not mean that good shots are actually being created.


I don't think "creating your own shot" means running an Iso play, Ray Allen creates is own shot through up fakes and driving all the time. But if you prefer, I think your team lacks a significant amount of offensive versatility, meaning they can create a scoring opportunity for themselves and can also produce when a play breaks down. A guy like Battier has that ability and experience when where as a Landry Fields does not.

My point is that I think you've replicated the offensive woes of the current Bucks with the additional problem that there's only one person on your squad that could explode for a big scoring night where there is 3 ( Jennings, Maggette and to a lesser extent Salmons) on the current Bucks. If I was to choose between the two offenses I'd choose the one that could every-once-and-a-while erupt for a big night, rather than ride the mediocrity night in night out.

Re: How is my Pick 2 team?
« Reply #633 on: February 11, 2011, 03:57:58 PM »

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I think the Wizards are a quality team and in a very good to excellent position going forward depending on Greg Oden's health.

However, I can't help but be a bit disappointed because I thought that team was in a very strong position to build a contender this season after Chris Bosh fell to them in the draft.

I thought Bosh and Wall was a heck of a combination to build around. A top five or thereabouts duo and Washington still had very high picks the rest of the way through the draft. I thought there was a real chance for a contender to be made.

So in that sense, I am a bit disappointed in it ... but the team is still a quality side and in a very strong place going forward. One of the best, if not the best, jobs in remaking one's team.

Re: How is my Pick 2 team?
« Reply #634 on: February 11, 2011, 04:06:52 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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My point is that I think you've replicated the offensive woes of the current Bucks with the additional problem that there's only one person on your squad that could explode for a big scoring night where there is 3 ( Jennings, Maggette and to a lesser extent Salmons) on the current Bucks. If I was to choose between the two offenses I'd choose the one that could every-once-and-a-while erupt for a big night, rather than ride the mediocrity night in night out.

Bogut, Fields, Lowry, all have had big games this season. They're all pretty capable of 'once and a while erupting'.

Ah well, I guess you've made up your mind incorrectly. I can't change that.

"You've gotta respect a 15-percent 3-point shooter. A guy
like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner

Re: How is my Pick 2 team?
« Reply #635 on: February 11, 2011, 04:11:58 PM »

Offline KCattheStripe

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My point is that I think you've replicated the offensive woes of the current Bucks with the additional problem that there's only one person on your squad that could explode for a big scoring night where there is 3 ( Jennings, Maggette and to a lesser extent Salmons) on the current Bucks. If I was to choose between the two offenses I'd choose the one that could every-once-and-a-while erupt for a big night, rather than ride the mediocrity night in night out.

Bogut, Fields, Lowry, all have had big games this season. They're all pretty capable of 'once and a while erupting'.

Ah well, I guess you've made up your mind incorrectly. I can't change that.



I ignored Bogut because he was on both teams. Fields and Lowry can erupt in the way Von Wafer erupted, once in a blue moon and not something you can expect.


It's cool IP, you can be wrong. But always remember

Re: How is my Pick 2 team?
« Reply #636 on: February 11, 2011, 04:20:02 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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You think just because you can schlep a picture of SLJ on something you're better than me?

Here is what I think of that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMwmqp3GLMc

PS: My Bucks team is better offensively and defensively than the current Bucks team, who are dead last in PPG. You keep think that "once and a while eruption" theory works.

"You've gotta respect a 15-percent 3-point shooter. A guy
like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner

Re: How is my Pick 2 team?
« Reply #637 on: February 11, 2011, 04:30:41 PM »

Offline Redz

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I will answer the topic question.  We are wicked good n stuff.  I'd like one more scrubbish tall guy with the last pick.

Chicago Bullies:

Derrick Rose
Mike Miller
Corey Maggette
Carlos Boozer
Marcin Gortat

Jamal Crawford, Ronny Turiaf, Tracy McGrady, Marco Belinelli, Michael Redd, Brian Scalabrine
« Last Edit: February 11, 2011, 04:37:17 PM by Redz »
Yup

Re: How is my Pick 2 team?
« Reply #638 on: February 11, 2011, 04:36:45 PM »

Offline KCattheStripe

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You think just because you can schlep a picture of SLJ on something you're better than me?

Here is what I think of that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMwmqp3GLMc

PS: My Bucks team is better offensively and defensively than the current Bucks team, who are dead last in PPG. You keep think that "once and a while eruption" theory works.

And you can keep that " If I keep pointing out that the current Bucks offense is bad, no one will notice I made it worse" strategy up.

You think a Deep Blue Sea reference can stop me?



They're not talking about your offense.

Re: How is my Pick 2 team?
« Reply #639 on: February 11, 2011, 04:42:38 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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haha...I did not make a worse offense than the current Bucks. I seriously don't see how you're so adamant about that. I get your point about Salmons and Maggette being able scorers, and I get how you say they're all capable of having a 1 in 10 30 point explosion...but I don't see why A) one of Lowry, Fields, or Ibaka can't step up when given a larger offensive role and B) why better ball movement (which I got), better shooters (which I got) doesn't mean my offense can be better than a team whose alleged "scorers" can't manage to shoot 45%.


"You've gotta respect a 15-percent 3-point shooter. A guy
like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner

Re: How is my Pick 2 team?
« Reply #640 on: February 11, 2011, 04:51:49 PM »

Offline KCattheStripe

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haha...I did not make a worse offense than the current Bucks. I seriously don't see how you're so adamant about that. I get your point about Salmons and Maggette being able scorers, and I get how you say they're all capable of having a 1 in 10 30 point explosion...but I don't see why A) one of Lowry, Fields, or Ibaka can't step up when given a larger offensive role and B) why better ball movement (which I got), better shooters (which I got) doesn't mean my offense can be better than a team whose alleged "scorers" can't manage to shoot 45%.




I will answer like I said before, none of them are proven scorers or shown they can handle a bigger load or handle a bigger role. Maybe they are capable, but until I see that in the real NBa I'm skeptical.

Re: How is my Pick 2 team?
« Reply #641 on: February 11, 2011, 04:54:46 PM »

Offline StartOrien

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Don't worry about it guys, I just decided I won it all.

Re: How is my Pick 2 team?
« Reply #642 on: February 11, 2011, 04:59:13 PM »

Offline Lucky17

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Looks like I may be done with retooling my roster.

PG: Nash/Chalmers
SG: Afflalo/Mayo
SF: Ariza/Casspi/Greene
PF: Nene/Villanueva/Clark
C:  Jordan/McDyess

That's got to be better than the current Suns, yeah?

PG: Nash/Dragic
SG: Carter/Pietrus/Childress
SF: Hill/Dudley
PF: Frye/Warrick
C:  Lopez/Gortat
DKC League is now on reddit!: http://www.reddit.com/r/dkcleague

Re: How is my Pick 2 team?
« Reply #643 on: February 11, 2011, 05:03:26 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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haha...I did not make a worse offense than the current Bucks. I seriously don't see how you're so adamant about that. I get your point about Salmons and Maggette being able scorers, and I get how you say they're all capable of having a 1 in 10 30 point explosion...but I don't see why A) one of Lowry, Fields, or Ibaka can't step up when given a larger offensive role and B) why better ball movement (which I got), better shooters (which I got) doesn't mean my offense can be better than a team whose alleged "scorers" can't manage to shoot 45%.




I will answer like I said before, none of them are proven scorers or shown they can handle a bigger load or handle a bigger role. Maybe they are capable, but until I see that in the real NBa I'm skeptical.

What do they need to do to show they can handle a bigger responsibility other than handle a bigger responsibility previous to this?

"You've gotta respect a 15-percent 3-point shooter. A guy
like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner

Re: How is my Pick 2 team?
« Reply #644 on: February 11, 2011, 05:10:38 PM »

Offline KCattheStripe

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haha...I did not make a worse offense than the current Bucks. I seriously don't see how you're so adamant about that. I get your point about Salmons and Maggette being able scorers, and I get how you say they're all capable of having a 1 in 10 30 point explosion...but I don't see why A) one of Lowry, Fields, or Ibaka can't step up when given a larger offensive role and B) why better ball movement (which I got), better shooters (which I got) doesn't mean my offense can be better than a team whose alleged "scorers" can't manage to shoot 45%.




I will answer like I said before, none of them are proven scorers or shown they can handle a bigger load or handle a bigger role. Maybe they are capable, but until I see that in the real NBa I'm skeptical.

What do they need to do to show they can handle a bigger responsibility other than handle a bigger responsibility previous to this?

Nothing.