Would you trade JO for JJ Redick?

[moiso]

The real question should be this: would Orlando trade JJ Redick for JO?

I think you would find that the answer is a big fat NO. At this point, he is worth more than a has-been big man who just came off knee surgery and is yet to make any meaningful contribution to this team.

I agree, and on top of that, trading JO to the magic would eliminate their biggest weakness since their revamping, backup center. No way, let them find a backup to Howard from someone else.

O'Neal would shore up their center position the same way he's shoring up our's.  O'Neal's value will be next season when there's a contract on the line.  Whether he's here or in Orlando he'll be a waste of a roster spot this season.  I'd do the trade in a heartbeat.

as Roy said, don't count JO out yet. He is too proud a player and too close to some of the guys on this team to mail it in until his contract year. He will be very productive when fully recovered. Our main advantage over the magic, heat, and even LA is our size when healthy. I wouldn't give that up for an additional SG who would play behind Ray, Nate, Dwest, and Daniels.

The one area where I agree with Roy is that I don't think O'Neal is close to being washed up yet.  Where we differ is that I think he tanks in non-contract years.  I watched him admittedly only a few games last year beyond our's.  He looked last year like he was putting up numbers in his sleep.  He's that talented.  In a lot of ways, talented like Shaq where if he gets on the court he'll put up numbers.  

He's going to put up 10 and 8 next year for somebody.  Maybe better.  

I think O'Neal's demeanor and zest for the game changed after the brawl.  He put up good numbers last season in his sleep.  At no point when I saw him did he ever look like he was busting his butt.  He's that talented.  He can do it going through the motions.....As long as he has something to play for.  He, IMHO, doesn't play for the love of the game...Or for championships.  He has the greatest opportunity for a championship he's ever had on this team...And he's out of shape.  He, IMHO, plays for the money.  

I don't think we'll see any of that this season because he's simply not in shape.  Look at him.  He looks about 30 lbs bigger than last season.  Opposed to Perk, who had a major knee injury...Looks chisled.

Next season will mirror last season for O'Neal.  So if he's not traded, Danny essentially signed him for a 1 year, 11.8m contract.

So basically, you've looked for every opportunity since he was signed to say JO won't help the Celtics.

It's hard to play hard all the time when you're injured; just know that, please.

I wish I could mistake this for anything other than a slam on JO, but I can't. Not when OP's willing to trade a viable bigs to the Magic AND that the C's can use all the big they can get. Are you serious?

Yes.  I am serious.  I don't see O'Neal contributing this season and I've said that since he was signed.  We need all the bigs we can get.  You're right.  But an out of shape center who doesn't play doesn't qualify as viable.  Our definitions of viable differ greatly.

I understand you have a bias against JO, but he is pretty close with some of the guys on this team, he's not going to mail it in. Danny wouldn't have signed him to the full MLE if he thought there was a chance that he would mail it in. He will perform very well when healthy, and we will see that in the next 5-10 games. Let's see if you still have the same opinion at the end of the season. I have to give injured players a pass. KG looked bad last year, Rondo played poorly when trying to battle his injuries, Pierce was downright awful when he played a couple of games with the flu, and Perk will not look good for a while when he comes back. It doesn't mean any of them are lazy and saving their efforts for contract years. JO has had major knee issues for years, it significantly affects his play (again: see KG last year). When healthy, he is a proven talent and will bring his best effort, and unlike guys like Mikki Moore, Patrick Obryant, etc., he definitely has the killer instinct in him.

JO is talented but he definitely does not have the killer instinct in him.  And Danny signed a guy last year for the MLE who mailed it in the whole year.  Oneal wouldn't improve the Magic's chances of beating the Celtics.  Perk, KG, and Shaq eat guys like JO for lunch.  At least he gets to play with the bullies this year, and not against them.

[j804]

Here is a quote from JO in The Herald, afterall this time we still gotta hear about his dam knee? Not going to get better? Pfft

O’Neal said he felt all right after playing 10 shaky minutes against the Magic in his first appearance since Nov. 8.

“It is what it is,” O’Neal said of his troublesome left knee. “It’s not going to get much better. You just keep treating it and keep trying to hope that it stays well.

[xmuscularghandix]

I think J.O. with 1/4 of a leg is a better big man than J.J. Redick... 

You guys see what i did there?

[Celtics4ever]

It wasn't  his knees that killed him it was his stone hands where he fumbled the ball.  Though lack of lift clearly hurt him on some bunny shots and that could be related to his knee.   But to me his bad hands were clearly the issue.

On Jermaine he is what he is, an NBA journeyman.  This is his fifth team.   He has some potential but teams sour on him sooner or later.   He has had some really nice years of 20/10 but never was a champion.   Good big man to have as a back up.   I hope he improves from the Magic game if he does it helps our depth.  If he doesn't I am ok with dealing with dealing him.

[jsingh1699]

JO could be very valuable for us in the playoffs.

i say this for one big reason: foul trouble

i thought last year in the playoffs, the refs were very quick to call fouls (on everybody except lebron), especially on big guys. we've seen in the last few years of the playoffs, perk can be foul prone. after watching the game against the magic, its clear howard will get some special treatment against shaq as shaq got called with a lot of fouls (dont get me wrong, they were fouls). because of foul trouble, JO will have to step in to play some big minutes.

i know we all love erdin and believe hes ready to step in and play in those situations. and i think he will depending on matchups. i dont think hes physically strong enough to go against guys like howard, bogut, Z (i have no clue how to spell his name), dampier, heck even brandon bass. we know JO will not be afraid to bang with these guys and give us anywhere from 5 to 15 min a game, which in the playoffs is huge.

IMO, let JO play a few more games, and then i say we sit shaq out for a month and let him rest. this way we can give JO some quality minutes.

[Eja117]

I think J.O. with 1/4 of a leg is a better big man than J.J. Redick... 

You guys see what i did there?

Well not when he's hurt he's not

[Roy H.]

It wasn't  his knees that killed him it was his stone hands where he fumbled the ball.  Though lack of lift clearly hurt him on some bunny shots and that could be related to his knee.   But to me his bad hands were clearly the issue.

On Jermaine he is what he is, an NBA journeyman.  This is his fifth team.   He has some potential but teams sour on him sooner or later.   He has had some really nice years of 20/10 but never was a champion.   Good big man to have as a back up.   I hope he improves from the Magic game if he does it helps our depth.  If he doesn't I am ok with dealing with dealing him.

Two things:

1.  J.O. doesn't have stone hands.  He fumbled the ball a couple times in his first game action in almost two months, but that's not the norm with him.  (Also, for whatever it's worth, he didn't have any turnovers.)

2.  In terms of teams souring on him, the Heat wanted him back as a free agent this year.  It's not like he was forced out of town.

It has been a disappointing season for O'Neal so far, but give him time.  If he plays nearly as good as he did last year, he's going to be a very valuable contributor for this team.

[nickagneta]

It wasn't  his knees that killed him it was his stone hands where he fumbled the ball.  Though lack of lift clearly hurt him on some bunny shots and that could be related to his knee.   But to me his bad hands were clearly the issue.

On Jermaine he is what he is, an NBA journeyman.  This is his fifth team.   He has some potential but teams sour on him sooner or later.   He has had some really nice years of 20/10 but never was a champion.   Good big man to have as a back up.   I hope he improves from the Magic game if he does it helps our depth.  If he doesn't I am ok with dealing with dealing him.

Two things:

1.  J.O. doesn't have stone hands.  He fumbled the ball a couple times in his first game action in almost two months, but that's not the norm with him.  (Also, for whatever it's worth, he didn't have any turnovers.)

2.  In terms of teams souring on him, the Heat wanted him back as a free agent this year.  It's not like he was forced out of town.

It has been a disappointing season for O'Neal so far, but give him time.  If he plays nearly as good as he did last year, he's going to be a very valuable contributor for this team.

I agree. I mean there's a reason the C's went into the year with 4 centers on their 15 man roster and another 2 PFs that could play center in a pinch. That reason is they knew Perk would miss 2/3 of the season, they knew Shaq would probably miss 20-25 games because he's old and can't do back to back and stuff and they knew that Jermaine O'Neal is realistically only going to give them half a season.

If that half of a season is the second half and playoffs and he can fill the role of coming off the bench and blocking shots and nabbing rebounds, then he will have fulfilled what he came here to do. Also, I think O'Neal is much better an offensive player than he has shown here and will surprise many when he is good and healthy.

He'll never be Indiana Jermaine ever again, but as a third string center, there aren't any better in the league.

[MaxAMillion]

I would trade JO for a bag of groceries.

[Roy H.]

I would trade JO for a bag of groceries.

I hope those groceries can defend the paint and hit the outside jumper.

[Celtics4ever]

He missed bunnies.  I clearly recall him fumbling the ball not being able to catch a rebound, pass etc.   Rewatch the game and you will see what I am talking about.   He had bad hands this game, I don't care if he didn't have any turnovers per se, PP had eight TO's and a lot of his were catchable passes that JO fumbled.   Why PP got dinged for them is beyond me as a lot of them were chest level.

One team not souring out of five, not strong evidence at all, eja117.
I agree he needs time but some made it sounds like this guy is Robert Parrish when he more like Joe Berry Carroll.  Most great title teams didn't carry three centers folks.  Our 80s Celtics ofted used PF McHale in a pinch over say Greg Kite and didn't have a true PG either.  If a guy can play they can play.  O' Neal can play, I just wonder how much he has left in the tank.

[Roy H.]

He missed bunnies.  I clearly recall him fumbling the ball not being able to catch a rebound, pass etc.   Rewatch the game and you will see what I am talking about.   He had bad hands this game, I don't care if he didn't have any turnovers per se, PP had eight TO's and a lot of his were catchable passes that JO fumbled.   Why PP got dinged for them is beyond me as a lot of them were chest level.

I don't think anybody is disputing that J.O. had bad games in that one game, but it's *one* game.  He's never had particularly bad hands, so which do you think is more likely:  1) that he was rusty after a 2 month layoff, or 2) that he suddenly morphed into a latter-day Mark Blount?

One team not souring out of five, not strong evidence at all, eja117.

Portland didn't sour on him, either (they traded him as a prospect to "win now"), and Boston hasn't yet.  That means that, at most, two out of five teams have given up on him.  Indiana wanted to rebuild after the brawl, and Toronto was going nowhere.  Neither could afford to have J.O. taking up a huge chunk of their payroll, but I don't think either team had a huge issue with his attitude.

I agree he needs time but some made it sounds like this guy is Robert Parrish when he more like Joe Berry Carroll.  Most great title teams didn't carry three centers folks.  Our 80s Celtics ofted used PF McHale in a pinch over say Greg Kite and didn't have a true PG either.  If a guy can play they can play.  O' Neal can play, I just wonder how much he has left in the tank.

I don't think anybody is calling him Robert Parish.  However, if healthy he's the best 5th big man in the NBA.  The guy was a starter on a playoff team last year; it's not like his skills eroded overnight.

I'm just puzzled that Celtics fans are so quick to throw a valuable player under the bus.  It's not like he's costing us a ton of money, or has a long-term contract, or prevented us from signing somebody better, or is taking playing time away from a hot young prospect (sorry, Semih).  Many fans seem to want to ship him out of town before he can show what he can offer, which seems a bit short-sighted to me.

But, by all means, let's trade J.O. for another shooting guard (making about $7 million for the next three years), because we don't have the position covered with Marquis, Delonte, Nate, Bradley, and Wafer.

[wdleehi]

He missed bunnies.  I clearly recall him fumbling the ball not being able to catch a rebound, pass etc.   Rewatch the game and you will see what I am talking about.   He had bad hands this game, I don't care if he didn't have any turnovers per se, PP had eight TO's and a lot of his were catchable passes that JO fumbled.   Why PP got dinged for them is beyond me as a lot of them were chest level.

One team not souring out of five, not strong evidence at all, eja117.
I agree he needs time but some made it sounds like this guy is Robert Parrish when he more like Joe Berry Carroll.  Most great title teams didn't carry three centers folks.  Our 80s Celtics ofted used PF McHale in a pinch over say Greg Kite and didn't have a true PG either.  If a guy can play they can play.  O' Neal can play, I just wonder how much he has left in the tank.

But why help one of the main competitors in the East?  


There is not enough gain for the Celtics in this move.

[More Banners]

I don't think anybody is calling him Robert Parish.  However, if healthy he's the best 5th big man in the NBA.  The guy was a starter on a playoff team last year; it's not like his skills eroded overnight.

I'm just puzzled that Celtics fans are so quick to throw a valuable player under the bus.  It's not like he's costing us a ton of money, or has a long-term contract, or prevented us from signing somebody better, or is taking playing time away from a hot young prospect (sorry, Semih).  Many fans seem to want to ship him out of town before he can show what he can offer, which seems a bit short-sighted to me.

But, by all means, let's trade J.O. for another shooting guard (making about $7 million for the next three years), because we don't have the position covered with Marquis, Delonte, Nate, Bradley, and Wafer.

A number of things above are true.

1)  JO is certainly no Robert Parrish.

2)  IF HEALTHY, he might be the best 5th big in the league.  (First, health is his problem...5 years running.  Second, the 5th big in a 4-big rotation--some teams use 3--is expendable and could/should be traded for a rotation player at another position, at least in theory...).

3) His skills did not erode overnight.  (Actually, he's been in decline for several years, but his health has been his biggest issue).

4) We don't have the SG spot covered with Marquis (also backing up PP and an injury risk himself, and limited range), Nate (undersized at the 2 by a large margin, not trustworthy at the 2 in extended minutes), Delonte (currently out injured, played two games this season so far), Bradley (rookie, seriously?), and Wafer (barely an NBA player).

I know Roy meant the last bit sarcastically, but still...Our wing situation isn't good, either.

Perhaps JO could, in fact, beat out a bag of groceries for a rotation spot, but then again, we probably have a better idea what we'll get out of a bag of groceries.  I, for one, am not counting on JO for anything, at any time.  Healthy for the playoffs?  Why should we think that's likely?  He wasn't healthy for last year's playoffs for Miami, right?  Played like crap?

[Snakehead]

Perhaps JO could, in fact, beat out a bag of groceries for a rotation spot, but then again, we probably have a better idea what we'll get out of a bag of groceries.  I, for one, am not counting on JO for anything, at any time.  Healthy for the playoffs?  Why should we think that's likely?  He wasn't healthy for last year's playoffs for Miami, right?  Played like crap?

He played like crap because he wasn't healthy and he wasn't healthy because he was never rested in Miami because he had to start so they could even make the playoffs.  Here in Boston he can rest and take his time to be healthy because we have depth.  That is why it is likely.


And when you say "our wing situation isn't good", seriously get some perspective.  We are the best team in the league.  Our wing situation is not ideal but our guard situation is very good and good enough to handle the wing position too.  And we still have injured players waiting to come back.  Our big depth is an asset and despite what people on this board say, we will hold onto it.  Danny and the other minds that put this team together know what they are doing.