A reasonable appraisal of Semih Erden

[lon3lytoaster]

I really feel like Semih will improve substantially in year 2. How do you gain upper body strength when your nursing shoulder/thumb injuries. This kid is battling for us… If KG and Shaq like a kid i’m gonna take their word on him.

I wouldn't normally disagree with you here, but I'm thinking he's going to need a decent amount of recovery time from surgeries over the off-season. He's already got the shoulder and now his finger or thumb is banged up, too.

I love the way he's battling through his injuries, though. He's really earned my respect in that regard.

[clover]

I really feel like Semih will improve substantially in year 2. How do you gain upper body strength when your nursing shoulder/thumb injuries. This kid is battling for us… If KG and Shaq like a kid i’m gonna take their word on him.

I wouldn't normally disagree with you here, but I'm thinking he's going to need a decent amount of recovery time from surgeries over the off-season. He's already got the shoulder and now his finger or thumb is banged up, too.

I love the way he's battling through his injuries, though. He's really earned my respect in that regard.

I agree with the comment earlier in the thread that he needs lower-body strength more than upper body.  He's got a relatively high center of gravity and it is strength in his legs that will help him keep position.  That is good because he can better work on his lower body while recovering from shoulder surgery.

[Surferdad]

I like how he's coming along considering where he was and where he was picked.  He still needs to work on his hands.  He fumbles the ball a lot when he's passed to ala like Sheldon was.

Definitely agree.  This is one weakness of Erdin's I have noticed but few others have pointed out.  He frequently gets stripped, especially when he has the inside position on an O-rebound.  I like his positioning in general but he just can't seem to finish oftentimes.  He should work on his hand stength along with all the other strength conditioning he needs.

[Fafnir]

He doesn't post up more because the team doesn't trust him in part, and also because he lacks the strength to post up most NBA centers. The same lack of strength also is a big part of his rebounding woes.

His offensive game is probably his strong suit for me. He rolls hard and has decent touch. It his rebounding and defensive struggles that keep him from being anywhere near starting NBA caliber.

  He's also dealing with that bad shoulder that's going to be addressed in the offseason.

Very true, this could be greatly hindering his rebounding. But I doubt it'd go from its currently level to acceptable from a starting C.

His movement on defense isn't effected by his shoulder and that is also below what you want/need in a starting center.

  I doubt that it qualifies as unusual that someone doesn't display the defense or rebounding you'd expect from a starting center after the first quarter of their rookie season.

Defense yes, usually players rebound at a pretty consistent rate, given their role on the court. (Baby no longer getting offensive boards as much because he's no longer the 5 on court sort of thing)

[BballTim]

He doesn't post up more because the team doesn't trust him in part, and also because he lacks the strength to post up most NBA centers. The same lack of strength also is a big part of his rebounding woes.

His offensive game is probably his strong suit for me. He rolls hard and has decent touch. It his rebounding and defensive struggles that keep him from being anywhere near starting NBA caliber.

  He's also dealing with that bad shoulder that's going to be addressed in the offseason.

Very true, this could be greatly hindering his rebounding. But I doubt it'd go from its currently level to acceptable from a starting C.

His movement on defense isn't effected by his shoulder and that is also below what you want/need in a starting center.

  I doubt that it qualifies as unusual that someone doesn't display the defense or rebounding you'd expect from a starting center after the first quarter of their rookie season.

Defense yes, usually players rebound at a pretty consistent rate, given their role on the court. (Baby no longer getting offensive boards as much because he's no longer the 5 on court sort of thing)

  Yes, but we've already agreed that his shoulder could be the cause of his poor rebounding rate.

[Chief]

I think he's pretty good for being a rookie. I kind of wish the C's would have kept Clifford Ray to help develop this kid.

[Fafnir]

He doesn't post up more because the team doesn't trust him in part, and also because he lacks the strength to post up most NBA centers. The same lack of strength also is a big part of his rebounding woes.

His offensive game is probably his strong suit for me. He rolls hard and has decent touch. It his rebounding and defensive struggles that keep him from being anywhere near starting NBA caliber.

  He's also dealing with that bad shoulder that's going to be addressed in the offseason.

Very true, this could be greatly hindering his rebounding. But I doubt it'd go from its currently level to acceptable from a starting C.

His movement on defense isn't effected by his shoulder and that is also below what you want/need in a starting center.

  I doubt that it qualifies as unusual that someone doesn't display the defense or rebounding you'd expect from a starting center after the first quarter of their rookie season.

Defense yes, usually players rebound at a pretty consistent rate, given their role on the court. (Baby no longer getting offensive boards as much because he's no longer the 5 on court sort of thing)

  Yes, but we've already agreed that his shoulder could be the cause of his poor rebounding rate.

Not quite, I agreed that it could be a contributing factor.

I still don't think a healthy shoulder will transform his rebound rate by enough to take him even to be average for a Center. His defensive rebounding rate is unacceptably poor in large part because he doesn't hold his position well. That doesn't depend on his shoulder.

[hwangjini_1]

He doesn't post up more because the team doesn't trust him in part, and also because he lacks the strength to post up most NBA centers. The same lack of strength also is a big part of his rebounding woes.

His offensive game is probably his strong suit for me. He rolls hard and has decent touch. It his rebounding and defensive struggles that keep him from being anywhere near starting NBA caliber.

  He's also dealing with that bad shoulder that's going to be addressed in the offseason.

Very true, this could be greatly hindering his rebounding. But I doubt it'd go from its currently level to acceptable from a starting C.

His movement on defense isn't effected by his shoulder and that is also below what you want/need in a starting center.

  I doubt that it qualifies as unusual that someone doesn't display the defense or rebounding you'd expect from a starting center after the first quarter of their rookie season.

Defense yes, usually players rebound at a pretty consistent rate, given their role on the court. (Baby no longer getting offensive boards as much because he's no longer the 5 on court sort of thing)

  Yes, but we've already agreed that his shoulder could be the cause of his poor rebounding rate.

Not quite, I agreed that it could be a contributing factor.

I still don't think a healthy shoulder will transform his rebound rate by enough to take him even to be average for a Center. His defensive rebounding rate is unacceptably poor in large part because he doesn't hold his position well. That doesn't depend on his shoulder.

Good point. But that may also mean that erden can learn to play center better, position himself better, and thereby improve.

It doesn't hurt to hope 

[blceltsfan]

Erden's rebounding and defensive shortcomings go hand in hand. Late rotations, switches on pick & rolls, etc also leave him out of position for rebounds. Many notes above about strength, and other issues are also valid, but I think that with playing time he'll get it.

He brings good foot work in low post offense, good IQ, and willingness to work hard and play through his injuries.  His shot blocking, which hasn't been mentioned much above, is exceptional as it is approaching 2 pg in the last five games when he's had consistent playing time. I have been pleasantly impressed with "MR IRRELEVANT" who I thought would be working for the other Ainge.

[BballTim]

He doesn't post up more because the team doesn't trust him in part, and also because he lacks the strength to post up most NBA centers. The same lack of strength also is a big part of his rebounding woes.

His offensive game is probably his strong suit for me. He rolls hard and has decent touch. It his rebounding and defensive struggles that keep him from being anywhere near starting NBA caliber.

  He's also dealing with that bad shoulder that's going to be addressed in the offseason.

Very true, this could be greatly hindering his rebounding. But I doubt it'd go from its currently level to acceptable from a starting C.

His movement on defense isn't effected by his shoulder and that is also below what you want/need in a starting center.

  I doubt that it qualifies as unusual that someone doesn't display the defense or rebounding you'd expect from a starting center after the first quarter of their rookie season.

Defense yes, usually players rebound at a pretty consistent rate, given their role on the court. (Baby no longer getting offensive boards as much because he's no longer the 5 on court sort of thing)

  Yes, but we've already agreed that his shoulder could be the cause of his poor rebounding rate.

Not quite, I agreed that it could be a contributing factor.

I still don't think a healthy shoulder will transform his rebound rate by enough to take him even to be average for a Center. His defensive rebounding rate is unacceptably poor in large part because he doesn't hold his position well. That doesn't depend on his shoulder.

  No, that would have to do with strengthening his lower body, as I believe others have mentioned. FWIW, I don't see him as a starting center, but he could be a decent backup and very good value for a #60 pick. I just think it's a little early in his career to compare his production to an average starting center.

[Fafnir]

  No, that would have to do with strengthening his lower body, as I believe others have mentioned. FWIW, I don't see him as a starting center, but he could be a decent backup and very good value for a #60 pick. I just think it's a little early in his career to compare his production to an average starting center.

If you're getting playing time you deserve the same scrutiny as anyone else. Especially when people are drinking the kool-aide and declaring him as having a higher ceiling than Gortat or seeing him as similar to Haywood.

[TradeProposalDude]

Good points by everyone.

Erden needs to work on lower body strength too. You can tell that he just doesn't have the balance to grab rebounds amongst his competition. A stronger core will allow him to box players out and grab rebounds with power, provided he doesn't fumble the ball once it reaches his hands.

I think that Erden will improve defensively in time, but that is not where his skills set lie in the first place. He is in the NBA because of his talent on the offensive end. I really wish the Celtics had kept Clifford Ray around... like with Al Jefferson, he would have helped season him into a player with legitimate moves. I figure the C's didn't forecast Erden contributing to this team at any juncture his rookie season (despite knowledge of the O'Neal boys injury proneness) so they got rid of Cliff.

[BballTim]

  No, that would have to do with strengthening his lower body, as I believe others have mentioned. FWIW, I don't see him as a starting center, but he could be a decent backup and very good value for a #60 pick. I just think it's a little early in his career to compare his production to an average starting center.

If you're getting playing time you deserve the same scrutiny as anyone else. Especially when people are drinking the kool-aide and declaring him as having a higher ceiling than Gortat or seeing him as similar to Haywood.

  I didn't say he shouldn't get scrutiny, I just think that early in his rookie season is a little early to compare his defense to the average starting center.

[Krespino]

It was reported that Semih Erden plays under a one year contract of $500,000.