A Game of Thrones (contains spoilers)

[tazzmaniac]

It wasn't a bad episode but there was a lot of cheesy stuff.
Things I didn't like. How quickly the dragon died. How Jamie got together with Sir Brieane. Jon needing to reveal his parents. Sansa being so anti Dany after the battle. Tyrion advising another seat and meet after death of the dragon. Bron just gets in with a bow and gets promised High garden.

Things I liked
Jamie leaving Brie was powerful. Arya turning down Gendry, he is his father's son. Euron on the sneak attack again (but it's unlikely to be possible unless he came out a cove/cave). Grey worm losing Mesiande but should have been at the seas attack. Dany losing her mind. Varys being himself. Tormond being love crushed and drunk.

Euron's sneak attack was nonsensical and unnecessary.  They should have just had Euron's fleet be spotted.  Dany would have had every reason to attack his fleet (e.g. defend her own ships/people and destroy the enemy ships/people) and no reason based on passed experience to be overly concerned that the ships posed a threat to her dragons. 

Varys was being himself but so was Tyrion.  Sansa played Tyrion like a fiddle.  I was so hoping Bron would kill Tyrion but at least the punch in the nose was funny.  Then Cersei has a chance to kill Tyrion and doesn't follow through.  Now I've got to hope Tyrion becomes dragon food for plotting against Dany.  The funny part of the Varys and Tyrion discussion was that they think Dany and Jon marriage option wouldn't work because she is too strong willed for Jon. 

[tazzmaniac]

So Tyrion and Varys are supposedly concerned about the little people and how Dany might use dragonfire to destroy King's landing.  Does anyone know what their alternate plan is to defeat Cersei?  Maybe I'm missing something but it sounds like they just want to lay siege and hope eventually the starving people will revolt against Cersei.  Which is most certainly not a plan with the little people's interest in mind and is also unlikely to actually work. 

[Celtics4ever]

Like I said, earlier the show definitely misses Martin's guiding hand this will go down as one of the great series ever, with a great start and meh finish.

[PhoSita]

So Tyrion and Varys are supposedly concerned about the little people and how Dany might use dragonfire to destroy King's landing.  Does anyone know what their alternate plan is to defeat Cersei?  Maybe I'm missing something but it sounds like they just want to lay siege and hope eventually the starving people will revolt against Cersei.  Which is most certainly not a plan with the little people's interest in mind and is also unlikely to actually work.

Just wait for Deus Ex Arya to do her work.

[Moranis]

So Tyrion and Varys are supposedly concerned about the little people and how Dany might use dragonfire to destroy King's landing.  Does anyone know what their alternate plan is to defeat Cersei?  Maybe I'm missing something but it sounds like they just want to lay siege and hope eventually the starving people will revolt against Cersei.  Which is most certainly not a plan with the little people's interest in mind and is also unlikely to actually work.

Just wait for Deus Ex Arya to do her work.

Jamie is going to kill his sister and bail them out.

[ederson]

Wanting to see the end is one reason, but this season has had some of the best visuals and set pieces I've ever seen on TV even as the narrative quality has gone over a cliff.  This episode didn't have a ton of that (I hope the "summit" was intended to make Dany seem weak and small because it sure did), but go back and watch Jon's run through Winterfell, just in a vacuum, ignoring how dumb the overall story was. It's brilliantly made and shot. Just an incredible spectacle. Arya's library stealth scene is really well-crafted and -made.  I absolutely love the initial shot of the Night King on his dragon where his hand is in focus and his face is blurred with glowing eyes. The dragons (usually) look amazing.  From a technical perspective it's really exemplary work, especially for TV.

I don't disagree with this sentiment.

My issue is that, for me, these great moments are undercut by the nonsense that the show engages in to set up those moments.

Cut the examples for space but this is a good characterization:



It's a really cool horse and it's been fun to watch them draw it, but as it's gone on the main features are still being put together but in a cruder, more rushed and less coherent way. To use a different analogy the skeleton of the show is all there in terms of major plot moments and arcs but pretty much as soon as they got past the books the connective tissue turned to sludge.

This is partly the books' fault - remember there's allegedly 2 books back and they haven't even resolved the Mereen situation or given Dany the Dothraki's support. Hell the end of Book 5 jumped forward a bit but freaking Stannis will still be alive and kicking when Book 6 starts.  It almost has to be rushed to go through everything left in the narrative.  But a lot of it just seems sloppy. Again, all while the technical stuff is better than ever.

I still love my dumb dragon show, it's just been a bummer to see the quality crumble. I try to appreciate what I can while still making fun of it when it deserves it.

Exactly my feelings. TP. I still wake up at 03.00 to watch it , i am in awe of the visual effects, the costumes,the props. It is an amazing production , i cant think of a series that comes close to that.

But the storyline suffers . ..... a lot.  it wouldn't have mattered if the first book based seasons weren't so well written.

[Spilling Green Dye]

Man I feel bad for Grey Worm. RIP Missandei 

But honestly it’s becoming really obvious they’re rushing everything now and the writing’s been compromised as a result.

The clever characters are getting outsmarted easily and frankly even the dragons have looked weak lately. I mean, they just ambushed Dany’s Army and killed her dragon + captured Missandei that easily?? Lol.

In that final scene Cersei stood right next to Missandei on the edge of the plaform and turned to face the Mountain to give the order to behead her. Fro a second I thought Missandei was going reach over and pull Cersei off the wall with her rather than just die anyway. It would have been epic.

TP, I was thinking the exact same thing.  I still have no idea why she didn't just grab Cersei and plunge together, or push her.  It was pretty maddening, kind of like the very slow Melisandra walk to light the trench in episode 3.  I'm all for the suspension of reality in a fantasy realm, but the characters can be illogical in these late seasons.

[Spilling Green Dye]

-deleted/duplicate-

[fairweatherfan]

The coffee cup's been digitally erased haha. Which proves it got past the editors etc too.

[Moranis]

Man I feel bad for Grey Worm. RIP Missandei 

But honestly it’s becoming really obvious they’re rushing everything now and the writing’s been compromised as a result.

The clever characters are getting outsmarted easily and frankly even the dragons have looked weak lately. I mean, they just ambushed Dany’s Army and killed her dragon + captured Missandei that easily?? Lol.

In that final scene Cersei stood right next to Missandei on the edge of the plaform and turned to face the Mountain to give the order to behead her. Fro a second I thought Missandei was going reach over and pull Cersei off the wall with her rather than just die anyway. It would have been epic.

TP, I was thinking the exact same thing.  I still have no idea why she didn't just grab Cersei and plunge together, or push her.  It was pretty maddening, kind of like the very slow Melisandra walk to light the trench in episode 3.  I'm all for the suspension of reality in a fantasy realm, but the characters can be illogical in these late seasons.

I think the explanation I read was that Missandei is a pacifist so it would be out of character for her to do something like that.  Of course that was just fans trying to make sense of the show, when it was clear they wanted the dramatic effect and an additional nudge to send Dany further off the cliff.

[Moranis]

And I've seen so many articles about them making Dany a villain turn is basically anti-woman.  Of course the problem with that line of thinking is Dany has always been a villain.  I mean just go back to season 1 where she gleefully watches her husband poor molten gold on her brother and kill him.  She is a ruthless killer that relishes in making her perceived enemies suffer (and I do mean perceived enemies i.e. people like the Tarley's).  She has always ever wanted one thing and has done everything and anything to achieve that goal (even her trip up north was meant as a way of securing a large part of the 7 Kingdoms as allies).  The simple truth is Dany has always been best suited as a conquistador i.e. a ruthless killing machine.  She was never suited to truly lead and certainly not lead in a peaceful kingdom (which is where this is ending up).  She was a strong powerful women which blinded many to the simple fact that she is a villain cut from the same cloth as Cersei.  They are basically one in the same, different backgrounds but similar ambition. 

The show is clearly rushing her full-on Mad Queen persona because they have to, but this path has been apparent from the beginning and isn't just some new development.

[fairweatherfan]

You're right that the books left the showrunners in a bind.

I would say that the fact that Martin is having such trouble finishing the last two books tells you that even the guy writing the source material is somewhat at a loss as to how to resolve all of this stuff in a satisfying and coherent way.

I went back and skimmed around in the last books and man - Jon is still dead and Tyrion is just in the process of escaping slavery and hasn't met Dany and there's a fake Aegon with some new characters around him who's already invaded Westeros and the Martell guy actually has some specific secret plans and Myrcella got an ear cut off but is still kicking around and the resurrected Cat Stark has caught Jaime and there's another Greyjoy uncle with a badass fire magic lava hand and and and...yeah nobody's wrapping that up in 2 books without a LOT of cutting corners or like 1500 pages each.  Dude built a great sandbox and got way too caught up with playing around in it.

[footey]

And I've seen so many articles about them making Dany a villain turn is basically anti-woman.  Of course the problem with that line of thinking is Dany has always been a villain.  I mean just go back to season 1 where she gleefully watches her husband poor molten gold on her brother and kill him.  She is a ruthless killer that relishes in making her perceived enemies suffer (and I do mean perceived enemies i.e. people like the Tarley's).  She has always ever wanted one thing and has done everything and anything to achieve that goal (even her trip up north was meant as a way of securing a large part of the 7 Kingdoms as allies).  The simple truth is Dany has always been best suited as a conquistador i.e. a ruthless killing machine.  She was never suited to truly lead and certainly not lead in a peaceful kingdom (which is where this is ending up).  She was a strong powerful women which blinded many to the simple fact that she is a villain cut from the same cloth as Cersei.  They are basically one in the same, different backgrounds but similar ambition. 

The show is clearly rushing her full-on Mad Queen persona because they have to, but this path has been apparent from the beginning and isn't just some new development.

She is a ruthless dictator who seems to have her heart with the masses. Should we question that freeing the slaves was a means to an end (to have total power), as opposed to reigning over peace and prosperity?

[footey]

Man I feel bad for Grey Worm. RIP Missandei 

But honestly it’s becoming really obvious they’re rushing everything now and the writing’s been compromised as a result.

The clever characters are getting outsmarted easily and frankly even the dragons have looked weak lately. I mean, they just ambushed Dany’s Army and killed her dragon + captured Missandei that easily?? Lol.

In that final scene Cersei stood right next to Missandei on the edge of the plaform and turned to face the Mountain to give the order to behead her. Fro a second I thought Missandei was going reach over and pull Cersei off the wall with her rather than just die anyway. It would have been epic.

TP, I was thinking the exact same thing.  I still have no idea why she didn't just grab Cersei and plunge together, or push her.  It was pretty maddening, kind of like the very slow Melisandra walk to light the trench in episode 3.  I'm all for the suspension of reality in a fantasy realm, but the characters can be illogical in these late seasons.

I think the explanation I read was that Missandei is a pacifist so it would be out of character for her to do something like that.  Of course that was just fans trying to make sense of the show, when it was clear they wanted the dramatic effect and an additional nudge to send Dany further off the cliff.

What about the fact that maybe she (MIssandei) was hoping that her life would somehow be spared?  Wouldn't a suicide leap kind of kill that?

[liam]

It wasn't a bad episode but there was a lot of cheesy stuff.
Things I didn't like. How quickly the dragon died. How Jamie got together with Sir Brieane. Jon needing to reveal his parents. Sansa being so anti Dany after the battle. Tyrion advising another seat and meet after death of the dragon. Bron just gets in with a bow and gets promised High garden.

Things I liked
Jamie leaving Brie was powerful. Arya turning down Gendry, he is his father's son. Euron on the sneak attack again (but it's unlikely to be possible unless he came out a cove/cave). Grey worm losing Mesiande but should have been at the seas attack. Dany losing her mind. Varys being himself. Tormond being love crushed and drunk.

Euron's sneak attack was nonsensical and unnecessary.  They should have just had Euron's fleet be spotted.  Dany would have had every reason to attack his fleet (e.g. defend her own ships/people and destroy the enemy ships/people) and no reason based on passed experience to be overly concerned that the ships posed a threat to her dragons. 

Varys was being himself but so was Tyrion.  Sansa played Tyrion like a fiddle.  I was so hoping Bron would kill Tyrion but at least the punch in the nose was funny.  Then Cersei has a chance to kill Tyrion and doesn't follow through.  Now I've got to hope Tyrion becomes dragon food for plotting against Dany.  The funny part of the Varys and Tyrion discussion was that they think Dany and Jon marriage option wouldn't work because she is too strong willed for Jon.

Shooting a giant metal arrow from a ship at sea on a moving platform with high wind into a quickly flying dragon at an upward trajectory from behind a mountain and you hit 3-3. Talk about fantasy...