Ongoing NFL draft chat

[zerophase]

Jordan Todman got drafted to San Diego... He was a graduate of my High School, a year older than me. Wow.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/player?id=27324&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnfl%2fdraft%2fplayer%3fid%3d27324

[Chris]

The Patriots have not addressed the issues on defense as of yet and won't get anyone that can really make an impact. We now have 4 RB's and 4 TE's and mostly offense was looked at for some odd reason.

Actually, I think it made complete sense for them to look at offense.  Their offense is relatively old.  Beyond the tight ends, Volmer, and the Law Firm (who really should not be a regular), they did not have any regulars who were young guys.

The defense on the other hand was made up of almost entirely of young guys, with some more guys close to breaking in to that rotation. 

I think the problem is that everyone is looking at the draft as the way to get better NOW.  However, in reality, it is a way to build depth for now, and get players for a year or two down the road.  They have been drafting defense for a while now, and last year you started seeing it coming together a bit.  Now they just need guys to continue to develop there, as they compliment them with veterans to fill holes. 

Offensively is a few years behind that (mainly because offense was a few years younger than the defense a couple years ago).  So, now Belichick is in the process of reloading the offense with young guys.

The key for this team though, is going to be once free agency really happens.  They are going to need to fill some holes with some legit, NFL players.

[JBcat]

The Patriots have not addressed the issues on defense as of yet and won't get anyone that can really make an impact. We now have 4 RB's and 4 TE's and mostly offense was looked at for some odd reason.

Actually, I think it made complete sense for them to look at offense.  Their offense is relatively old.  Beyond the tight ends, Volmer, and the Law Firm (who really should not be a regular), they did not have any regulars who were young guys.

The defense on the other hand was made up of almost entirely of young guys, with some more guys close to breaking in to that rotation. 

I think the problem is that everyone is looking at the draft as the way to get better NOW.  However, in reality, it is a way to build depth for now, and get players for a year or two down the road.  They have been drafting defense for a while now, and last year you started seeing it coming together a bit.  Now they just need guys to continue to develop there, as they compliment them with veterans to fill holes. 

Offensively is a few years behind that (mainly because offense was a few years younger than the defense a couple years ago).  So, now Belichick is in the process of reloading the offense with young guys.

The key for this team though, is going to be once free agency really happens.  They are going to need to fill some holes with some legit, NFL players.

Solid points but I just wanted to mention I'm perfectly fine with Law Firm being a regular.  Over a 1000 yards, 13 TDs, averaging 4.4 average per run.    I'm tired of the hyped, talented, Maroney types with no substance.   Law Firm might not be elite talent but he seems pretty dependable, gets the job done, maybe like an Antwain Smith in the early 2000s. 

[Fan from VT]

The Patriots have not addressed the issues on defense as of yet and won't get anyone that can really make an impact. We now have 4 RB's and 4 TE's and mostly offense was looked at for some odd reason.

Actually, I think it made complete sense for them to look at offense.  Their offense is relatively old.  Beyond the tight ends, Volmer, and the Law Firm (who really should not be a regular), they did not have any regulars who were young guys.

The defense on the other hand was made up of almost entirely of young guys, with some more guys close to breaking in to that rotation. 

I think the problem is that everyone is looking at the draft as the way to get better NOW.  However, in reality, it is a way to build depth for now, and get players for a year or two down the road.  They have been drafting defense for a while now, and last year you started seeing it coming together a bit.  Now they just need guys to continue to develop there, as they compliment them with veterans to fill holes. 

Offensively is a few years behind that (mainly because offense was a few years younger than the defense a couple years ago).  So, now Belichick is in the process of reloading the offense with young guys.

The key for this team though, is going to be once free agency really happens.  They are going to need to fill some holes with some legit, NFL players.

Solid points but I just wanted to mention I'm perfectly fine with Law Firm being a regular.  Over a 1000 yards, 13 TDs, averaging 4.4 average per run.    I'm tired of the hyped, talented, Maroney types with no substance.   Law Firm might not be elite talent but he seems pretty dependable, gets the job done, maybe like an Antwain Smith in the early 2000s. 

Good way to look at it and probably the way BB is thinking. He'd rather get guys who will be ready on offense in 1-2 years to replace guys who will be gone in 1-2 years rather than draft defenders who will be ready in 1-2 years just to duplicate the young defenders who are now ready.

That said, a lot hinges on Ty Warren coming back healthy. And now they know they really have just a couple areas to focus on in free agency/trades; i do think they need to add an impact rusher there, and maybe they are planning to.

[Tai]

I'm fine with BB's strategy.

People who don't like BB's strategy of trading for future firsts seem to forget that the reason the Pats even have a shot at picking high in the first is because he's traded for a future first.

Case in point: selecting Mayo (that wasn't the Pats own pick, it was one they acquired from San Francisco IIRC).

Case in point: selecting Solder (that wasn't the Pats own pick, it was the one they acquired from Oakland). 

BB has basically created a situation where the Pats are able to pick higher than they would if they only had their own pick in the first round each year, and pick an extra 2nd round pick each year.

All while putting 14-2 teams on the field mind you

And losing in the playoffs to the Jets. Like my bro said. It's very magnaminous of us to allow Sanchez to roll up stats and wins against us that matter with no pass rush. It's very nice we allow him to do this under no duress.

The point is how many times are you going to pass over a Clay Mathews and pick he Pat Chungs of the world? How many times will you draft two Rbs and a back up QB while you have a 1000 yard rusher and glaring needs?

He does this all the time and it caught up to us in the playoffs last year

To be fair, I do gotta say, it's been said for a while that our defense is considered young. As in, that was their actual problem; that they weren't experienced enough. And, we did kind of go to house last draft season with getting defensive players like Cunningham, Chung, McCourty, and Spikes, Butler, etc.

So, the question is, do we need to get even younger, or do we actually need veterans to compliment our young defense? Ty Warren and Leigh Bodden may very well improve that already simply by being healthy.

Speaking of being healthy, that's not one thing our defensive line did a good job of doing. When there has to be tryouts for our defensive line a few weeks before the playoffs start, well, can we really blame Belicheck's drafting for that? I mean, unless we wanna argue he drafted injury-prone guys?

And, we did draft Markell Carter in the 6th round, now. I guess we had to start somewhere. :p

[The DarkPassenger]

The Patriots have not addressed the issues on defense as of yet and won't get anyone that can really make an impact. We now have 4 RB's and 4 TE's and mostly offense was looked at for some odd reason.

Actually, I think it made complete sense for them to look at offense.  Their offense is relatively old.  Beyond the tight ends, Volmer, and the Law Firm (who really should not be a regular), they did not have any regulars who were young guys.

The defense on the other hand was made up of almost entirely of young guys, with some more guys close to breaking in to that rotation. 

I think the problem is that everyone is looking at the draft as the way to get better NOW.  However, in reality, it is a way to build depth for now, and get players for a year or two down the road.  They have been drafting defense for a while now, and last year you started seeing it coming together a bit.  Now they just need guys to continue to develop there, as they compliment them with veterans to fill holes. 

Offensively is a few years behind that (mainly because offense was a few years younger than the defense a couple years ago).  So, now Belichick is in the process of reloading the offense with young guys.

The key for this team though, is going to be once free agency really happens.  They are going to need to fill some holes with some legit, NFL players.

I am just looking at the fact that Pats were 8th on offense and 25th on defense. WR's are full of young guys except Branch and kind of Welker. Other WR's you have Tate, Price, Edelman. Also RB you were not in the best of shape but better than some teams with Green Ellis and Woodhead. I know that they will have to replace Faulk, Morris, Taylor and others on the way out. On the offensive side of the ball the only area of need would have been OL and they did do good in that area.

On the defensive side of the ball we have some real questions and I do not think that Gerald Warren, Tully, Deadrick, Love, or some others are your answers on the defensive line. Yeah we have some young guys but I don't see any of those guys getting much better except for maybe Cunningham. ILB has some promise and so does the secondary. It's a quality versus quantity problem and I would rather have 1 huge impact DE/OLB guy (on each side) and 1 or 2 guys behind them then 4 or 5 average DE/OLB guys who can sometimes get to the quarterback.

The key will be free agency now whenever that starts and maybe even some trading. Who knows if Belichick will keep Meriweather considering some of his issues off the field and lapses on the field and McGowan, Page, Sanders and Chung is a good team of safeties.

Now that the draft is over I can say that the Patriots had a below average draft. Grade is about a C. Who knows who these guys turn into in 2 or 3 years but as of right now it was a C type draft for them.

[Eja117]

And there's the other DB. Maybe next year we should draft all DBs. Can't have too many of those. I'm a draft genius. This 7th rounder will totally make up for picking Butler.

Draft grade - F- 

[Eja117]

So can teams not sign undrafted free agents because of the lockout? Is Herzlich totally screwed? 

[Cman]

So can teams not sign undrafted free agents because of the lockout? Is Herzlich totally screwed? 

Darn.  Well, I hope it ends soon, and I hope he ends up with the Pats.  It is a match that makes sense to me....

[Cman]

Looking back over the Pats draft this year, I'm surprised by the number of "projects" and risks:

Dowling: high injury risk
Mallett: long term project
Cannon: high injury risk *i.e.: might not recover
Carter: long term project

Solder, Vereen and Ridley will likely see playing time this year.  I think it is longer shots for Smith and Williams, but one brings versatility (at LS) and the other might be a special teams contributer.

[clover]

Looking back over the Pats draft this year, I'm surprised by the number of "projects" and risks:

Dowling: high injury risk
Mallett: long term project
Cannon: high injury risk *i.e.: might not recover
Carter: long term project

Solder, Vereen and Ridley will likely see playing time this year.  I think it is longer shots for Smith and Williams, but one brings versatility (at LS) and the other might be a special teams contributer.

Wasn't last year, with the broken ankle, Dowling's only real injury history?  Also, isn't Cannon's cancer curable 90% of the time?

[Cman]

Looking back over the Pats draft this year, I'm surprised by the number of "projects" and risks:

Dowling: high injury risk
Mallett: long term project
Cannon: high injury risk *i.e.: might not recover
Carter: long term project

Solder, Vereen and Ridley will likely see playing time this year.  I think it is longer shots for Smith and Williams, but one brings versatility (at LS) and the other might be a special teams contributer.

Wasn't last year, with the broken ankle, Dowling's only real injury history?  Also, isn't Cannon's cancer curable 90% of the time?

Wasn't it also hamstring and knee?
And yes the cancer is likely curable, but not 100%.  Plus, even if cured, he'll likely be pretty weak for a while as his body recovers from the chemo.

I just find it striking that the Pats selected so many players that might not be able to play/start/contribute this year, especially given that the rookies might not have much of a training camp.

But maybe that's the point.  If the season's start is delayed and there's no training camp, no rookie camp, its hard to imagine many rookies (on any team) having much of a contribution.  So I guess if you're going to draft rookies, draft ones that need to take time to get healthy.... or something like that. 

[Eja117]

So can teams not sign undrafted free agents because of the lockout? Is Herzlich totally screwed? 

Darn.  Well, I hope it ends soon, and I hope he ends up with the Pats.  It is a match that makes sense to me....

I'm hoping I'm wrong and that someone knows more about this than me. It's just that if they can't sign free agents they can't sign free agents, right?  I think that's awful because it puts the rookies at a huge disadvantage, because they can't get the playbook or go to rookie camp and whatnot. I hope teams are (cough) "sharing" "ideas" with certain college coaches as a way to "collaborate" and (cough) "learn" from each other. And then "Oh my God it's amazing! This rookie came to camp and just understood the system like it was nothing! Wow. They grow em smart over at Boston College!"

[Eja117]

BB has definitely had his share of rookie that got hurt, but I don't think more than anyone else. What's rough is when it happens at positions of need and then he still doesn't draft at the position.

There was Ben Watson a while back that missed the whole year
There was Shawn Crable two years in a row and then Tyrone McKenzie the very next year after drafting him
There was Daryl Richards (or something like that)
Then last year Kade Weston

Hard to say how much 7th round DTs would have helped but Brandon Deadrick and Kyle Love helped so who knows

[clover]

And there's the other DB. Maybe next year we should draft all DBs. Can't have too many of those. I'm a draft genius. This 7th rounder will totally make up for picking Butler.

Draft grade - F- 

I bet that second DB is a player they'd have just waited to sign as a free agent in different year.  But this year, with the lockout, they had to draft him to get a hold of him.