The Celts won't win the title if Doc rides Rondo right into the ground

[kozlodoev]

Weirdly, he's been really good at managing KG's minutes every since he got to Boston, but he doesn't show the same care for either Ray or Rondo.

Because neither Ray nor Rondo is KG?

Ray, for example, is a flow player whose game suffers greatly when his minutes fluctuate. He's also excellently conditioned.

Additionally, you can't play a guy for 30 minutes all season, and then throw him in for 40 a game in the playoffs and expect a seamless transition. People's bodies get accustomed to a certain amount of run, and underplaying someone can be just as bad as overplaying them.

[Fafnir]

The real reason I brought this up was that Cavs game.  It was a blowout from the 2nd quarter on, yet Rondo still racked up 38 minutes and Avery got on the court for one whole minute. 

The lead was only 11 at the half and 15 at the start of the third. I can see why Doc left Rondo in to make sure the Cavs didn't make another run.

Could he have pulled him two or three minutes earlier in the fourth, sure. But I don' think 35 minutes is all that diferent from 38.

[BballTim]

The lead was only 11 at the half and 15 at the start of the third.

  Rondo. The only player in nba history that can score 4 points during the halftime break.

[guava_wrench]

The real reason I brought this up was that Cavs game.  It was a blowout from the 2nd quarter on, yet Rondo still racked up 38 minutes and Avery got on the court for one whole minute. 

The lead was only 11 at the half and 15 at the start of the third. I can see why Doc left Rondo in to make sure the Cavs didn't make another run.

Could he have pulled him two or three minutes earlier in the fourth, sure. But I don' think 35 minutes is all that diferent from 38.

Yeah, the Portland game was a blowout in the 4th and then we almost lost. You never know at the moment what runs by the opponent may lay ahead.

The problem with the title of this thread is that no one knows what level of usage will "ride [a player] right into the ground".

[Fafnir]

The lead was only 11 at the half and 15 at the start of the third.

  Rondo. The only player in nba history that can score 4 points during the halftime break.

lol, start of the fourth!

[blake]

The idea that the Thunder and Celtics playoff accomplishments are on par because the Lakers eliminated both team is laughable.

The Thunder won 50 games while having every single starter healthy for the entire year. The C's won 50 games with major injury issues to 5 of their rotation players, those five including two of the team's top 3 players. Then you have to consider that the C's defeated three other teams in playoff series before playing the Lakers. Including the two teams with the best records in the league.

I don't buy that excuse.  You can't just say that the comparison is laughable because the C's had injuries all year.  You can't discount that the Thunder had a great season last year just because they didn't have the opportunity to play 3 other playoff teams before they faced the Lakers.  They faced stiffer competition all year long and they were .500 against the teams that the C's faced during the playoffs.  The comparison is actually not laughable at all.  They were 2-0 against Miami.  Anybody could have beat the Cavs with Lebron quitting.  And they split the series they had with the Magic.  I'm not discounting the C's at all, but rather saying that you can't say the Thunder were some slacking one and done team in the playoffs.  They took a Lakers team that swept the Jazz to 6 in some surprisingly close games. 

And yes, if we had Perkins we would have beat LA on their home court.

[Fafnir]

The idea that the Thunder and Celtics playoff accomplishments are on par because the Lakers eliminated both team is laughable.

The Thunder won 50 games while having every single starter healthy for the entire year. The C's won 50 games with major injury issues to 5 of their rotation players, those five including two of the team's top 3 players. Then you have to consider that the C's defeated three other teams in playoff series before playing the Lakers. Including the two teams with the best records in the league.

I don't buy that excuse.  You can't just say that the comparison is laughable because the C's had injuries all year.  You can't discount that the Thunder had a great season last year just because they didn't have the opportunity to play 3 other playoff teams before they faced the Lakers.  They faced stiffer competition all year long and they were .500 against the teams that the C's faced during the playoffs.  The comparison is actually not laughable at all.  They were 2-0 against Miami.  Anybody could have beat the Cavs with Lebron quitting.  And they split the series they had with the Magic.  I'm not discounting the C's at all, but rather saying that you can't say the Thunder were some slacking one and done team in the playoffs.  They took a Lakers team that swept the Jazz to 6 in some surprisingly close games. 

And yes, if we had Perkins we would have beat LA on their home court.

The Thunder had extraordinary health for any NBA team last year and still only matched the Celtics record. The difference in conferences doesn't effect your SoS all that much, the main difference is in playoff seeding where being in the west made it much harder to qualify.

I don't care what they did against Miami/Cleveland/Orlando in the regular season. The regular season doesn't indicate how things turn out in the playoffs frequently because back to backs, four in fives, and other factors play so much into it. Once you're in the playoffs match ups and adjustments are more crucial.

Think about what you're saying blake. A team that was the eight seed in the playoffs and lost in the first round, accomplished a similar amount to a team that lost an extremely close game 7 in the Finals.

I guess the Cavs in 2007-2008 did about as well as the Lakers that year, ditto for the Hawks.

[barefacedmonk]

Celtics guards Rajon Rondo and Nate Robinson remain dinged up with minor injuries, but both will play Friday night against the Bulls.

After saying Rondo's hamstring tightened up again in Wednesday's win over the Trail Blazers, Rivers reversed course Friday and said the plantar fasciitis in his feet remained the only real concern. He said Rondo got treatment Thursday and didn't make a big deal of the injuries, but Rivers noted he wants to get his point guard's minutes down moving forward.

http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/celtics/post/_/id/4678553/pregame-notes-rondo-robinson-playing-through-pain

I'm a little worried after reading this and then just waching Rondo walk off the court with a limp after jamming his knee. I believe KG and Rondo are the most important pieces of the puzzle and without them there won't be banner 18. I hope Doc monitors/limits his minutes or maybe not even play him for some games. It might mean a few losses but nothing that can hurt us in the long run.

[celtics2]

Here's my take. It's Rondo's team now. If he goes down we're just not going to win another Banner without him. Doc is fortunate to be Coach of All Star Players for some time now. Don't expect him to do the sensible moves when they are needed. He's no Phil Jackson.

[Meadowlark_Scal]

I said it in this post earlier, a hamstring doesn't heal in 2 weeks...try 1 month...and the foot makes it worse....doc sometimes cannot see thew big picture, otherwise known as the playoffs...or maybe it is upper management..Rondo needs to rest the hamstring for a month..it is a terribly painful injury that takes a lot of time to heal. you CAN'T work it out, it is worse than a sprained ankle, I know because i did it last summer, and i am a bit older than Rondo....! I say wait till January....play bradley, nate, wafer, dainiels.....!

[Meadowlark_Scal]

Some guys blasted me because when rondo was out there after 2 weeks he was going to the hole, that alley oop that HE did, he jumped and scored...Well, players who love this game have NO 1/2 speed, you play, you dive for the ball...on the court there is no pain, until pain MAKES you stop.

[guava_wrench]

I said it in this post earlier, a hamstring doesn't heal in 2 weeks...try 1 month...and the foot makes it worse....doc sometimes cannot see thew big picture, otherwise known as the playoffs...or maybe it is upper management..Rondo needs to rest the hamstring for a month..it is a terribly painful injury that takes a lot of time to heal. you CAN'T work it out, it is worse than a sprained ankle, I know because i did it last summer, and i am a bit older than Rondo....! I say wait till January....play bradley, nate, wafer, dainiels.....!

Any coach who played as long as Rivers did has played through similar injuries. Players play through this stuff all the time until they can't and often tell their coach they are fine when they aren't.

Look at guys like Pierce and Kobe. They play through everything. Then there are guys who miss a game with a hangnail. There is no foolproof way to handle this stuff as a coach when you have to rely on the player to be honest about stating their condition, especially when they aren't hurt enough for anything to appear on imaging. It is up to the trainers and the player to figure out.

There are so many variations of a hamstring injury that will all required different amounts of rest, so please stop pretending to know what is best in Rondo's case. You don't want a player to get out of basketball shape and out of their playing rhythm unless they actually have to.

Have we actually had problems result from things like this? I hear a lot of complaining, but has the sky fallen yet? Perhaps an argument can be made that Pierce seems to lose a lot physically by the end of the season. Perhaps using him less in the regular season could have helped in the playoffs (though who knows how many more losses that means), but his game is the type that doesn't lead to longevity. He likes contact.

[Meadowlark_Scal]

I said it in this post earlier, a hamstring doesn't heal in 2 weeks...try 1 month...and the foot makes it worse....doc sometimes cannot see thew big picture, otherwise known as the playoffs...or maybe it is upper management..Rondo needs to rest the hamstring for a month..it is a terribly painful injury that takes a lot of time to heal. you CAN'T work it out, it is worse than a sprained ankle, I know because i did it last summer, and i am a bit older than Rondo....! I say wait till January....play bradley, nate, wafer, dainiels.....!

Any coach who played as long as Rivers did has played through similar injuries. Players play through this stuff all the time until they can't and often tell their coach they are fine when they aren't.

Look at guys like Pierce and Kobe. They play through everything. Then there are guys who miss a game with a hangnail. There is no foolproof way to handle this stuff as a coach when you have to rely on the player to be honest about stating their condition, especially when they aren't hurt enough for anything to appear on imaging. It is up to the trainers and the player to figure out.

There are so many variations of a hamstring injury that will all required different amounts of rest, so please stop pretending to know what is best in Rondo's case. You don't want a player to get out of basketball shape and out of their playing rhythm unless they actually have to.

Have we actually had problems result from things like this? I hear a lot of complaining, but has the sky fallen yet? Perhaps an argument can be made that Pierce seems to lose a lot physically by the end of the season. Perhaps using him less in the regular season could have helped in the playoffs (though who knows how many more losses that means), but his game is the type that doesn't lead to longevity. He likes contact.

He we go again....as usual, no one was talking to you....and rondo's case is obvious, he waited 2 weeks, the results weren't good.....hmmm, what to do next coach.....uhm, maybe how about wait some more......  To most, that would be obvious. A hamstring that pulls so bad it stops you like what happened to rondo...(have you EVER played basketball? ) (and i don't mean in your fathers driveway!) The cure for rondo is the same for everyone. As we saw, 2 weeks didn't cut it, what does that tell you...? More severe than first thought. Get out of game shape, well, that is what happens when you pull a ham....hurt a knee, or ankle....but he won't get that far out. Better to be healthy for the playoffs.....