Shaq vs FGA

[Spilling Green Dye]

So far on the season Shaquille O'Neal is shooting 47 for 70 in Field Goal Attempts (FGA), for a percentage of .671.  While many of those are ally-oops or good penetrations by Rondo, and I'm all for "playing within the offense", I think it's time that Shaq gets more FGAs.

Looking at Shaq compared to the other PF/C's on the team:

S.O'Neal:  47-70 for .671
Garnett:  96-184 for .522
J.O'Neal:  15-34 for .441
S.Erdin:  12-27 for .444
G.Davis:  59-123 for .480

All of the PF/C's on the team are a benefit of the Celtic's unselfish offense, and so I think that generally needs to be discounted from the stats.  Players like Garnett typically play farther from the hoop, while someone like Jermaine plays much closer.

When it's all said and done, I think the logical conclusions (from an offensive only standpoint) are the following:

1)  Shaq & Garnett are the only high quality offensive options on the team at the PF/C position.
2)  The offense needs to involve Shaquille O'Neal more.
3)  Garnett should continue to get shots at the pace he is getting them.
4)  Semih Erdin is not converting enough of his shots down low.  He's a rookie, and is not supposed to be out there during the playoffs so it's kind of ok.
5)  Glen Davis is getting too many shots for his moderate FG%.  He's taking nearly 2x the amount of shots that Shaq is.  Example:  tonight against the Raptors he shot 16 shots (2nd most on the team), while Shaq was 5 for 5.
6)  Jermaine O'Neal, whether due to injury or new inception into this offense, is not performing up to the MLE. 

Above all I'd like to see the offense take more advantage of Shaquille O'Neal's ability to position himself for a high quality shot.  There's no excuse for lesser players to be getting more shot attempts than him.

[guava_wrench]

You were able to get Erden's stats, but not the spelling of his name?

Did you take into consideration that he plays far fewer minutes and that he also gets fouled a lot, erasing field goal attempts? Every time he takes 2 free throws, that was a FGA that isn't in the numbers, though we went to him on offense. Shaq has shot 54 FTs so far, so that is most likely over 20 field goal attempts erased.

Shaq isn't an every play guy at this point. We are using him fine. There comes a point where his efficiency will suffer greatly if we over use him. To some degree, you have to trust Shaq himself to know that level by knowing when to call for the ball and when to run hard.

You really can't analyze these things by listing a few stats and then generalizing.

Shaq also missed 5 games out of 16 and is playing less than 23 MPG.

The most important thing to do with Shaq is to get him to the playoffs healthy. This means we aren't going to go to him as much as we would have when he was younger.

KG will get more shots because he doesn't get fouled as much, plays more minutes, and he can shoot from more locations on the floor. Baby gets more shots because he plays more minutes, plays with the bench guys (often including Erden and Daniels), and can shoot from more spots.

[Fafnir]

54 FTA averages out to between 21.6 and 23.76 possessions. (a free throw is about .4 ~ .44 possessions)

I think Shaq as a go to offensive option offers very sharp diminishing returns. His post game is very match up based, against bigger Cs with size to play him tough he's a poor option.

The way the C's are lobbing the ball into him and using penetration to create easy dunks is pretty close to ideal.

[Overrated]

He is getting easy attempts (a lot of dunks) right around the basket, thus the high percentage. And it should be that way. I know they're limiting Shaq's minutes but I think he should see the ball come to him more regardless. He has been hot.

[bdm860]

Since Garnett and Ray came to town,  Kendrick Perkins has led the team in FG% every season (although in '09 Giddens, Moore, and Walker had higher FG%, but they all played less than 30 games so they don't count).  Should we be going to Perkins more too when he comes back just based on FG%?

[Roy H.]

Giving Shaq the ball more means less opportunity for Rondo to create offense.  While I still think Shaq is a force in the post, that's just not how our offense is designed to run over long stretches.

[guava_wrench]

Since Garnett and Ray came to town,  Kendrick Perkins has led the team in FG% every season (although in '09 Giddens, Moore, and Walker had higher FG%, but they all played less than 30 games so they don't count).  Should we be going to Perkins more too when he comes back just based on FG%?

I was going to mention that except Shaq actually can create.

But Shaq's FG% would plummet if we adjusted for all the alley oops and fast break freebies. What is his shooting % off of moves in the post? A slightly lower version of that is what we can expect if we force the ball to him more, since that entails going to him when he isn't in as good position.

[Overrated]

Since Garnett and Ray came to town,  Kendrick Perkins has led the team in FG% every season (although in '09 Giddens, Moore, and Walker had higher FG%, but they all played less than 30 games so they don't count).  Should we be going to Perkins more too when he comes back just based on FG%?

Whenever Perk would touch the ball in the post he became a black hole. He forced it too many times.

Shaq at least has the mass to throw around, and that is an advantage.

[guava_wrench]

Since Garnett and Ray came to town,  Kendrick Perkins has led the team in FG% every season (although in '09 Giddens, Moore, and Walker had higher FG%, but they all played less than 30 games so they don't count).  Should we be going to Perkins more too when he comes back just based on FG%?

Whenever Perk would touch the ball in the post he became a black hole. He forced it too many times.

Shaq at least has the mass to throw around, and that is an advantage.

Does Perk get the ball in the post enough to call him a black hole?

Btw, black holes have a really big mass.

[Fafnir]

Perkins isn't quite a black hole, his biggest problem in the post is he turns it over at a ridiculous rate. At one point last year it was 25%, not sure if that held up though...

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

Why do all of you mention alley-oops and what Rondo does to discredit what Shaq does? You all seem to forget that Shaq has a high % EVERY season! If Shaq was not playing w/ Rondo his FG% would still be high... Rondo makes it more easy, but he is not the sole reason Shaq has a high %! Everyone knows Shaq isn't the Shaq of old but no matter the team (players surrounding), when given shots he does what you're suppose to more often than not, put it in the basket! Then you mention his fts need to be taken into account, wouldn't you have to do the same for the other bigs mentioned? Take BBD, he already takes way more shots than Shaq, now consider his fts like you did to Shaq's... so, whether or not you take fts and slice 'em as FGA, the OP is correct that BBD get's a larger offensive role than a guy with a much better %. Like Shaq going 5/5 first Q and not getting another shot til minutes left in the game is ludicrous... he needs the ball more in certain situations especially when no one else is scoring (loss to OKC)!

[GreenEnvy]

So far on the season Shaquille O'Neal is shooting 47 for 70 in Field Goal Attempts (FGA), for a percentage of .671.  While many of those are ally-oops or good penetrations by Rondo, and I'm all for "playing within the offense", I think it's time that Shaq gets more FGAs.

Looking at Shaq compared to the other PF/C's on the team:

S.O'Neal:  47-70 for .671
Garnett:  96-184 for .522
J.O'Neal:  15-34 for .441
S.Erdin:  12-27 for .444
G.Davis:  59-123 for .480

All of the PF/C's on the team are a benefit of the Celtic's unselfish offense, and so I think that generally needs to be discounted from the stats.  Players like Garnett typically play farther from the hoop, while someone like Jermaine plays much closer.

When it's all said and done, I think the logical conclusions (from an offensive only standpoint) are the following:

1)  Shaq & Garnett are the only high quality offensive options on the team at the PF/C position.
2)  The offense needs to involve Shaquille O'Neal more.
3)  Garnett should continue to get shots at the pace he is getting them.
4)  Semih Erdin is not converting enough of his shots down low.  He's a rookie, and is not supposed to be out there during the playoffs so it's kind of ok.
5)  Glen Davis is getting too many shots for his moderate FG%.  He's taking nearly 2x the amount of shots that Shaq is.  Example:  tonight against the Raptors he shot 16 shots (2nd most on the team), while Shaq was 5 for 5.
6)  Jermaine O'Neal, whether due to injury or new inception into this offense, is not performing up to the MLE. 

Above all I'd like to see the offense take more advantage of Shaquille O'Neal's ability to position himself for a high quality shot.  There's no excuse for lesser players to be getting more shot attempts than him.

1) Shaq and KG are great offensive options for any team - when used correctly. Use them in the flow of offense, and hit them in their sweet spots, and they are as good as anybody in the league. Run their offense THROUGH them all the time? Not a great idea.

2) Only if he gets position deep and has the size and/or strength advantage, which he usually does.

3) I agree. Garnett is not forcing anything, getting his open jumpers and alley-oops. When he has a size/quickness advantage, he takes his man one-on-one. No complaints whatsoever about how Garnett is performing offensively (or defensively).

4) Erden is a rookie who was thrown in the pit way too soon. He was not to be relied on this season - or atleast this early. I give him a pass, although he shows some nice footwork and a decent touch. He definitely has promise.

5) The big difference between Baby and Shaq is who they are playing with. Shaq plays with the starters who are going to touch the ball. Baby plays with them at times too, but usually with the second unit which doesn't have guys who can create their own shot for the most part. Baby attempts a lot of putbacks and has the ability to take and make outside shots (often used as a bailout with the shot-clock winding down), which makes his FGA number more feasible.

6) Obviously JO has been a disappointment (besides his obvious shot-blocking ability) thus far, but he too gets a pass from me. Unless this becomes habitual, which is possible. But he hasn't has many preseason games, and was obviously not 100% when he did play. Reserve judgement on him until he strings together a few healthy weeks worth of games.

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

So far on the season Shaquille O'Neal is shooting 47 for 70 in Field Goal Attempts (FGA), for a percentage of .671.  While many of those are ally-oops or good penetrations by Rondo, and I'm all for "playing within the offense", I think it's time that Shaq gets more FGAs.

Looking at Shaq compared to the other PF/C's on the team:

S.O'Neal:  47-70 for .671
Garnett:  96-184 for .522
J.O'Neal:  15-34 for .441
S.Erdin:  12-27 for .444
G.Davis:  59-123 for .480

All of the PF/C's on the team are a benefit of the Celtic's unselfish offense, and so I think that generally needs to be discounted from the stats.  Players like Garnett typically play farther from the hoop, while someone like Jermaine plays much closer.

When it's all said and done, I think the logical conclusions (from an offensive only standpoint) are the following:

1)  Shaq & Garnett are the only high quality offensive options on the team at the PF/C position.
2)  The offense needs to involve Shaquille O'Neal more.
3)  Garnett should continue to get shots at the pace he is getting them.
4)  Semih Erdin is not converting enough of his shots down low.  He's a rookie, and is not supposed to be out there during the playoffs so it's kind of ok.
5)  Glen Davis is getting too many shots for his moderate FG%.  He's taking nearly 2x the amount of shots that Shaq is.  Example:  tonight against the Raptors he shot 16 shots (2nd most on the team), while Shaq was 5 for 5.
6)  Jermaine O'Neal, whether due to injury or new inception into this offense, is not performing up to the MLE. 

Above all I'd like to see the offense take more advantage of Shaquille O'Neal's ability to position himself for a high quality shot.  There's no excuse for lesser players to be getting more shot attempts than him.

1) Shaq and KG are great offensive options for any team - when used correctly. Use them in the flow of offense, and hit them in their sweet spots, and they are as good as anybody in the league. Run their offense THROUGH them all the time? Not a great idea.

2) Only if he gets position deep and has the size and/or strength advantage, which he usually does.

3) I agree. Garnett is not forcing anything, getting his open jumpers and alley-oops. When he has a size/quickness advantage, he takes his man one-on-one. No complaints whatsoever about how Garnett is performing offensively (or defensively).

4) Erden is a rookie who was thrown in the pit way too soon. He was not to be relied on this season - or atleast this early. I give him a pass, although he shows some nice footwork and a decent touch. He definitely has promise.

5) The big difference between Baby and Shaq is who they are playing with. Shaq plays with the starters who are going to touch the ball. Baby plays with them at times too, but usually with the second unit which doesn't have guys who can create their own shot for the most part. Baby attempts a lot of putbacks and has the ability to take and make outside shots (often used as a bailout with the shot-clock winding down), which makes his FGA number more feasible.

6) Obviously JO has been a disappointment (besides his obvious shot-blocking ability) thus far, but he too gets a pass from me. Unless this becomes habitual, which is possible. But he hasn't has many preseason games, and was obviously not 100% when he did play. Reserve judgement on him until he strings together a few healthy weeks worth of games.

5)- Show me the proof... I'm willing to bet that BBD plays more w/ the starters than he does w/ the bench or that it's very close either way.

[Roy H.]

So far on the season Shaquille O'Neal is shooting 47 for 70 in Field Goal Attempts (FGA), for a percentage of .671.  While many of those are ally-oops or good penetrations by Rondo, and I'm all for "playing within the offense", I think it's time that Shaq gets more FGAs.

Looking at Shaq compared to the other PF/C's on the team:

S.O'Neal:  47-70 for .671
Garnett:  96-184 for .522
J.O'Neal:  15-34 for .441
S.Erdin:  12-27 for .444
G.Davis:  59-123 for .480

All of the PF/C's on the team are a benefit of the Celtic's unselfish offense, and so I think that generally needs to be discounted from the stats.  Players like Garnett typically play farther from the hoop, while someone like Jermaine plays much closer.

When it's all said and done, I think the logical conclusions (from an offensive only standpoint) are the following:

1)  Shaq & Garnett are the only high quality offensive options on the team at the PF/C position.
2)  The offense needs to involve Shaquille O'Neal more.
3)  Garnett should continue to get shots at the pace he is getting them.
4)  Semih Erdin is not converting enough of his shots down low.  He's a rookie, and is not supposed to be out there during the playoffs so it's kind of ok.
5)  Glen Davis is getting too many shots for his moderate FG%.  He's taking nearly 2x the amount of shots that Shaq is.  Example:  tonight against the Raptors he shot 16 shots (2nd most on the team), while Shaq was 5 for 5.
6)  Jermaine O'Neal, whether due to injury or new inception into this offense, is not performing up to the MLE. 

Above all I'd like to see the offense take more advantage of Shaquille O'Neal's ability to position himself for a high quality shot.  There's no excuse for lesser players to be getting more shot attempts than him.

1) Shaq and KG are great offensive options for any team - when used correctly. Use them in the flow of offense, and hit them in their sweet spots, and they are as good as anybody in the league. Run their offense THROUGH them all the time? Not a great idea.

2) Only if he gets position deep and has the size and/or strength advantage, which he usually does.

3) I agree. Garnett is not forcing anything, getting his open jumpers and alley-oops. When he has a size/quickness advantage, he takes his man one-on-one. No complaints whatsoever about how Garnett is performing offensively (or defensively).

4) Erden is a rookie who was thrown in the pit way too soon. He was not to be relied on this season - or atleast this early. I give him a pass, although he shows some nice footwork and a decent touch. He definitely has promise.

5) The big difference between Baby and Shaq is who they are playing with. Shaq plays with the starters who are going to touch the ball. Baby plays with them at times too, but usually with the second unit which doesn't have guys who can create their own shot for the most part. Baby attempts a lot of putbacks and has the ability to take and make outside shots (often used as a bailout with the shot-clock winding down), which makes his FGA number more feasible.

6) Obviously JO has been a disappointment (besides his obvious shot-blocking ability) thus far, but he too gets a pass from me. Unless this becomes habitual, which is possible. But he hasn't has many preseason games, and was obviously not 100% when he did play. Reserve judgement on him until he strings together a few healthy weeks worth of games.

5)- Show me the proof... I'm willing to bet that BBD plays more w/ the starters than he does w/ the bench or that it's very close either way.

True; BBD's most common lineup, by far, is at center with the other four starters:

http://www.82games.com/1011/10BOS11.HTM#5man

[GreenEnvy]

So far on the season Shaquille O'Neal is shooting 47 for 70 in Field Goal Attempts (FGA), for a percentage of .671.  While many of those are ally-oops or good penetrations by Rondo, and I'm all for "playing within the offense", I think it's time that Shaq gets more FGAs.

Looking at Shaq compared to the other PF/C's on the team:

S.O'Neal:  47-70 for .671
Garnett:  96-184 for .522
J.O'Neal:  15-34 for .441
S.Erdin:  12-27 for .444
G.Davis:  59-123 for .480

All of the PF/C's on the team are a benefit of the Celtic's unselfish offense, and so I think that generally needs to be discounted from the stats.  Players like Garnett typically play farther from the hoop, while someone like Jermaine plays much closer.

When it's all said and done, I think the logical conclusions (from an offensive only standpoint) are the following:

1)  Shaq & Garnett are the only high quality offensive options on the team at the PF/C position.
2)  The offense needs to involve Shaquille O'Neal more.
3)  Garnett should continue to get shots at the pace he is getting them.
4)  Semih Erdin is not converting enough of his shots down low.  He's a rookie, and is not supposed to be out there during the playoffs so it's kind of ok.
5)  Glen Davis is getting too many shots for his moderate FG%.  He's taking nearly 2x the amount of shots that Shaq is.  Example:  tonight against the Raptors he shot 16 shots (2nd most on the team), while Shaq was 5 for 5.
6)  Jermaine O'Neal, whether due to injury or new inception into this offense, is not performing up to the MLE. 

Above all I'd like to see the offense take more advantage of Shaquille O'Neal's ability to position himself for a high quality shot.  There's no excuse for lesser players to be getting more shot attempts than him.

1) Shaq and KG are great offensive options for any team - when used correctly. Use them in the flow of offense, and hit them in their sweet spots, and they are as good as anybody in the league. Run their offense THROUGH them all the time? Not a great idea.

2) Only if he gets position deep and has the size and/or strength advantage, which he usually does.

3) I agree. Garnett is not forcing anything, getting his open jumpers and alley-oops. When he has a size/quickness advantage, he takes his man one-on-one. No complaints whatsoever about how Garnett is performing offensively (or defensively).

4) Erden is a rookie who was thrown in the pit way too soon. He was not to be relied on this season - or atleast this early. I give him a pass, although he shows some nice footwork and a decent touch. He definitely has promise.

5) The big difference between Baby and Shaq is who they are playing with. Shaq plays with the starters who are going to touch the ball. Baby plays with them at times too, but usually with the second unit which doesn't have guys who can create their own shot for the most part. Baby attempts a lot of putbacks and has the ability to take and make outside shots (often used as a bailout with the shot-clock winding down), which makes his FGA number more feasible.

6) Obviously JO has been a disappointment (besides his obvious shot-blocking ability) thus far, but he too gets a pass from me. Unless this becomes habitual, which is possible. But he hasn't has many preseason games, and was obviously not 100% when he did play. Reserve judgement on him until he strings together a few healthy weeks worth of games.

5)- Show me the proof... I'm willing to bet that BBD plays more w/ the starters than he does w/ the bench or that it's very close either way.

True; BBD's most common lineup, by far, is at center with the other four starters:

http://www.82games.com/1011/10BOS11.HTM#5man

I'm not sure how updated 82games is, but:

Although Davis' most common lineup is with the starters (because of the injuries to all the centers), he still plays more with other lineups than the starters. He logged 138 minutes with the starters out of his 359 total minutes, which is less than 39% of his PT.

Shaq on the other hand has played 108 of his 155 (~70%) total minutes with the starters.

Now they both also play with some variation of starters on the floor, but BBD still spends plenty of time with the backups, whereas Shaq seldom does.


But none of this really matters because per 36 minutes, Shaq is averaging 10.8 FGA. BBD? 10.7. So you OP numbers are pretty misleading. He missed a couple games and plays less minutes per game as it is. It's like comparing Daniels to West.