So who do we get for big baby now?

[moiso]

Davis is signed through this season.  My guess is if an extension can't be reached during the year he'll be traded.

Well, Davis *can't* be signed to an extension during the season, per NBA collective bargaining rules.  So that will not be a factor in whether he's shopped or not.

***

What everyone seems to forget is that Baby is probably our most versatile big outside of KG.  He can defend the 4 and the 5.  He can shoot from outside or inside.  And he can provide energy plays or create his own shot.  He's extremely versatile and very important to this team.

And people want to get rid of that?  Do people realize that Shaq's a defensive liability, JO has no heart, is extremely injury-prone, and SOFT, and that Erden and Harangody are rookies?  We all love KG and Perk but they both have their own injury situations as well.  To me, those advocating the trade of Baby are just those who never liked him in the first place, something that makes their opinion dubious at best.  He's one of the few bigs we can actually count on this year.

The real conversation--that is, if we were talking about things that really matter--is whether we should consider starting Baby while Perk's on the mend.  His presence would make the starting unit very skilled (as Doc himself noted), very hard to guard and extremely versatile, and it would put Shaq and JO in the bench roles they're best suited for and will eventually settle into once Perk comes back.  And you know what?  Baby's the better player too.   Shaq is the better low post option, JO the better shot-blocker and rebounder, but the best all-around player out of those 3 is Glen Davis.  

***

If we're talking about who to trade, the guy at the top of the list is Jermaine O'Neal.  He's DONE, has ZERO LIFT, and to top it off, he has no HEART.  He's the kind of guy who recently admitted that he hated playing against the Cs because he knew we'd be physical with him, something that basically announces to the world that if you're physical with Jermaine O'Neal he's going to back down and lose his aggressiveness and become ineffective.  We don't need that kind of player on this team.  He's a good guy to have for depth, but the minute you start counting on him is the minute you're going to be let down.  If and when Perk comes back to full strength, you can bet that JO will slide to the end of the bench and be no more than a 5 minute-a-night guy by the time the playoffs start.  Not what we wanted from our MLE, but that's what we got--a mentally weak loser past his prime.

I agree with almost everything you said about JO.  He can come in and play some good defense off the bench, but you are right on when you said that as soon as you start counting on him, he will let you down.
At practice yesterday, I also noticed that JO was the only player who didn't interact whith anyone other than Rasheed.  He just sat there like a bump on a log.  He really looked miserable.  He doesn't strike me as a big team chemistry guy.

[Birdbrain]

I think there is less than a 0% chance that Danny trades his best bench player.  I mean that doesn't really make any sense to me so IMO the whole concept has the aroma of Sports Talk Radio to it. 

But as always too each his own.

[Chris]

I think there is less than a 0% chance that Danny trades his best bench player.  I mean that doesn't really make any sense to me so IMO the whole concept has the aroma of Sports Talk Radio to it. 

But as always too each his own.

Right, but we're talking about Big Baby, not his best bench player...

(sorry, couldn't resist)

Ultimately, I think everyone other than Rondo, Pierce, KG, and Ray will be available for the right pieces, its all about getting the right value back.

[Birdbrain]

I think there is less than a 0% chance that Danny trades his best bench player.  I mean that doesn't really make any sense to me so IMO the whole concept has the aroma of Sports Talk Radio to it. 

But as always too each his own.

Right, but we're talking about Big Baby, not his best bench player...

(sorry, couldn't resist)

Ultimately, I think everyone other than Rondo, Pierce, KG, and Ray will be available for the right pieces, its all about getting the right value back.

Sure anyone is available (and I might win the lottery if I played it) but, BBD won't be available as the best bench player (good zing by the way) for a bench player.  That's what doesn't make any sense. 

[footey]

BBD is our best bench player. Period. He is emerging as one of the best energy bench guys in the league.  He is not going anywhere.  Doc loves him, Danny too. Me three.

I seriously don't get this.. He isn't our best bench player at all. Sure, some people around here underrate him but a lot of people do the opposite, too.

He's an AVERAGE role player. Not much more, not much less.

Who is better in terms of offense, defense and rebounds off the bench? Maybe D West, but not nearly the presence inside. 

[Roy H.]

I think there is less than a 0% chance that Danny trades his best bench player.  I mean that doesn't really make any sense to me so IMO the whole concept has the aroma of Sports Talk Radio to it. 

But as always too each his own.

Right, but we're talking about Big Baby, not his best bench player...

(sorry, couldn't resist)

Ultimately, I think everyone other than Rondo, Pierce, KG, and Ray will be available for the right pieces, its all about getting the right value back.

Sure anyone is available (and I might win the lottery if I played it) but, BBD won't be available as the best bench player (good zing by the way) for a bench player.  That's what doesn't make any sense. 

I know you're probably the biggest BBD fan on the blog, but let me give you a hypothetical example:

1.  Shaq, KG, and JO are all healthy and playing well at the trade deadline.  Perk is practicing and is looking good.  Harangody is exceeding expectations, as is Erden.

2.  At the same time, Marquis Daniels has gotten injured, possibly for the season.  Von Wafer, Delonte West, and Harangody are attempting to fill in at backup three, with limited success.

Under those very specific circumstances, would you consider trading BBD?  I agree that it's premature to do so now, but if he's the trade chip that can fill a position of need, would you do so?

[Chris]

I think there is less than a 0% chance that Danny trades his best bench player.  I mean that doesn't really make any sense to me so IMO the whole concept has the aroma of Sports Talk Radio to it. 

But as always too each his own.

Right, but we're talking about Big Baby, not his best bench player...

(sorry, couldn't resist)

Ultimately, I think everyone other than Rondo, Pierce, KG, and Ray will be available for the right pieces, its all about getting the right value back.

Sure anyone is available (and I might win the lottery if I played it) but, BBD won't be available as the best bench player (good zing by the way) for a bench player.  That's what doesn't make any sense. 

Well, we will have to agree to disagree then.  Because, I think if there was a better bench player available, or one who filled a bigger need (say, Shane Battier), I think Danny will jump at the opportunity to move Davis...although chances are a player of that caliber wouldn't be available for a player like Davis, so you are probably right that he ultimately wouldn't be moved for that reason.

You also need to take into account the fact that Davis' contract is up at the end of the year, and he likely is going to be looking for more money and a larger role than the C's are going to be offering.  So, if they have a chance to get value for him during the year, they are not going to hesitate.  

[Roy H.]

BBD is our best bench player. Period. He is emerging as one of the best energy bench guys in the league.  He is not going anywhere.  Doc loves him, Danny too. Me three.

I seriously don't get this.. He isn't our best bench player at all. Sure, some people around here underrate him but a lot of people do the opposite, too.

He's an AVERAGE role player. Not much more, not much less.

Who is better in terms of offense, defense and rebounds off the bench? Maybe D West, but not nearly the presence inside. 

Jermaine O'Neal, assuming he continues a bench role.  BBD is probably our 4th best big man right now (and 5th best if Perk comes back), although he's also probably the healthiest, as well.

[footey]

BBD is our best bench player. Period. He is emerging as one of the best energy bench guys in the league.  He is not going anywhere.  Doc loves him, Danny too. Me three.

I seriously don't get this.. He isn't our best bench player at all. Sure, some people around here underrate him but a lot of people do the opposite, too.

He's an AVERAGE role player. Not much more, not much less.

Who is better in terms of offense, defense and rebounds off the bench? Maybe D West, but not nearly the presence inside. 

Jermaine O'Neal, assuming he continues a bench role.  BBD is probably our 4th best big man right now (and 5th best if Perk comes back), although he's also probably the healthiest, as well.

I disagree. Even if Jermaine comes off the bench (an open question), I prefer what BBD brings to the team to Jermaine, in terms of energy and production. He will probably be a more productive player than either Shaq or J O this season on a per minute basis. He is much better defender than Shaq.  Also, Baby, unlike any of the other centers, is more versatile, playing 4 and 5 better than anyone on the team, including KG, who would get killed by someone like D Howard one one one.

[Chris]

BBD is our best bench player. Period. He is emerging as one of the best energy bench guys in the league.  He is not going anywhere.  Doc loves him, Danny too. Me three.

I seriously don't get this.. He isn't our best bench player at all. Sure, some people around here underrate him but a lot of people do the opposite, too.

He's an AVERAGE role player. Not much more, not much less.

Who is better in terms of offense, defense and rebounds off the bench? Maybe D West, but not nearly the presence inside. 

Jermaine O'Neal, assuming he continues a bench role.  BBD is probably our 4th best big man right now (and 5th best if Perk comes back), although he's also probably the healthiest, as well.

And that last part is probably his biggest bit of security with this team.  While I agree taht he is the 4th to 5th best big man on this roster, the chances of guys 1-5 being healthy come the trade deadline are not that strong, while he has been relatively durable (his off court injury notwithstanding).  Because of that, and the fact that his value to other teams is probably less than his value to this team, I would not bet on him going anywhere.  But I also don't think we should go overboard in thinking this guy is someone they would hold on to if the right opportunity presented itself.

[Roy H.]

BBD is our best bench player. Period. He is emerging as one of the best energy bench guys in the league.  He is not going anywhere.  Doc loves him, Danny too. Me three.

I seriously don't get this.. He isn't our best bench player at all. Sure, some people around here underrate him but a lot of people do the opposite, too.

He's an AVERAGE role player. Not much more, not much less.

Who is better in terms of offense, defense and rebounds off the bench? Maybe D West, but not nearly the presence inside. 

Jermaine O'Neal, assuming he continues a bench role.  BBD is probably our 4th best big man right now (and 5th best if Perk comes back), although he's also probably the healthiest, as well.

I disagree. Even if Jermaine comes off the bench (an open question), I prefer what BBD brings to the team to Jermaine, in terms of energy and production. He will probably be a more productive player than either Shaq or J O this season on a per minute basis. He is much better defender than Shaq.  Also, Baby, unlike any of the other centers, is more versatile, playing 4 and 5 better than anyone on the team, including KG, who would get killed by someone like D Howard one one one.

On a per-minute basis, both Jermaine and Shaq were substantially better scorers and rebounders than BBD last year:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=onealje01&y1=2010&p2=onealsh01&y2=2010&p3=davisgl01&y3=2010

They each outscored him, out-rebounded him, had more assists, had more blocked shots, shot a higher percentage from the field, and had fewer personal fouls.  J.O. is also a better defender than BBD, with Shaq being arguably worse.

Objectively, I think it's hard to argue that Baby's better.  In terms of versatility, J.O. has been a top-flight PF and an above-average starting center, so I'd say he can play PF/C on Baby's level.

[Bankshot]

Leave Baby alone!

I can't believe how at every single turn, someone wants to trade the kid.  He's been one of our best bench players, and people want to get rid of him for another bench player?

[Birdbrain]

I think there is less than a 0% chance that Danny trades his best bench player.  I mean that doesn't really make any sense to me so IMO the whole concept has the aroma of Sports Talk Radio to it.  

But as always too each his own.

Right, but we're talking about Big Baby, not his best bench player...

(sorry, couldn't resist)

Ultimately, I think everyone other than Rondo, Pierce, KG, and Ray will be available for the right pieces, its all about getting the right value back.

Sure anyone is available (and I might win the lottery if I played it) but, BBD won't be available as the best bench player (good zing by the way) for a bench player.  That's what doesn't make any sense.  

I know you're probably the biggest BBD fan on the blog, but let me give you a hypothetical example:

1.  Shaq, KG, and JO are all healthy and playing well at the trade deadline.  Perk is practicing and is looking good.  Harangody is exceeding expectations, as is Erden.

2.  At the same time, Marquis Daniels has gotten injured, possibly for the season.  Von Wafer, Delonte West, and Harangody are attempting to fill in at backup three, with limited success.

Under those very specific circumstances, would you consider trading BBD?  I agree that it's premature to do so now, but if he's the trade chip that can fill a position of need, would you do so?

I did try and keep my BBD homerism to minimum but, I can only take so many trade ideas for Shrek before I have to comment..

In your scenario I would consider it more than likely that trade of BBD could be made.  But that scenario is A LOT less likely than Shaq, Jermaine, or both being injured and Perk not being ready.  That's not even bringing KG into the discussion.  BBD is most guaranteed of the bigs from a health stand point at this stage of the season.  So I consider it so premature that almost as I said 0% chance of happening.

I should have said there is a very very slight chance that a trade of BBD (the best bench player as previously noted) will be made this season.  

[Spilling Green Dye]

TP Roy for saving me a bunch of typing and finding the necessary link(s).  I could think of a few more too.

In watching Jermaine it does seem like he lacks his usual lift, and that he's "disinterested".  Maybe he's just one of those guys who doesn't need to be yapping ALL the time (i.e. Davis.)

Also, during a preseason game I saw Rondo dish to Jermaine O'neal who was directly underneath the hoop with 2 defenders on him.  He went up and dunked it w/o getting blocked.  It wasn't impressive looking, but it was something that Davis dreams about someday doing.  

[j804]

Leave Baby alone!

I can't believe how at every single turn, someone wants to trade the kid.  He's been one of our best bench players, and people want to get rid of him for another bench player?

TP amen the Baby has been playing great and his butt off, Doc has praised him for being one of the few who knows our plays and system better than anybody.....the Baby is not going anywhere.