Avery Bradley; how good can this guy be?

[ScoobyDoo]

Hi LooseCannon, well, I'm probably not being specific enough about my comments. From what I've seen of these two players so far, I see it them this way:

1. DWest - best at off guard, but can play some point guard against other bigger points in the league when necessary. He's a smallish off guard, but he seems to be able to manage it when called on.

2. Bradley - appears maybe better suited for point guard, based on reports he can handle the ball very well and is at least a decent playmaker ( something I don't think West really is ). But apparently some feel Bradley, because of his shooting, can also play some off guard in the right spots based on his shooting and defensive ability, long wing span, etc.

In saying "if he's the real deal" at the back up point position, like Delonte is the real deal to me at the back up off guard position.

If this is the case, I think you have two very solid guys behind Rondo and Ray ( and whatever eventual starter replaces Ray at off guard).

An added bonus would be that because both players appear to have swing potential in the backcourt ( can ply either point or off in the right situations) you have great flexibility with the two guys.

Ultimately though, I see DWest as a bit more of an off guard and Bradley as a bit more of a point guard.

If Bradley knocks it out of the park at point, showing starter/slash all star talent in 2-3 years...then you have a situation where you'll need to make a decision about trading either Bradley or Rondo to increase talent at another position so as not to be redundant at the point.

Ultimately, if Bradley works out as a solid back up point and DWest works out as our back up off guard... I'd be looking to build the fololowing rotation for the now and the future..

Rondo / Bradley
Ray( or his max free agent replacement ) DWest

Then I'd look to sign larger ( typical 6' 5" to 6' 6" off guard as the 5th guy in my guard rotation.

I'd have plenty of speed, size and versatility.

Re DWest, unless he has a complete mental breakdown, I see him being a very, very integral part of this season's rotation. He can flat out play. He's a tough, gritty competitor you want to go to battle with. That kid plays with fire. I think that's crucial for any playoff team to have a couple guys like that. He's the best back up Ray will have had here since he arrived.

Of course, if DWest is toast mentally at this point, all of the above is mute. But if he;s dialed in, he's 100% in the 8 to 9 man rotation, IMHO.

And I could care less about his weak right hand...thats' like saying kurt Rambis can't shoot. He got it done somehow. So does Delonte, cause they ballas, they could play with a sock if that's all they had...

[ScoobyDoo]

Yes I would LilRip. That;'s the ultimate position to be in I would think;l having two guys at the same position with starter / slash all star potential. That is far better than having one all star point and a basic scrub behind him.

The decision to make then becomes, who to trade based on your vision of the team.

Look, I love Rondo and think he's an elite, top 5 point. But if Bradley turns out to be a lock down defender at the point and can hit you with 20 a night, some from distance and dish out 6-7 assists per night, you have to consider what you can get for Rondo.

But bottom line, it comes to who you think ultimately will help you win more games...I think in almost any scenario I would be very hard pressed to trade Rondo. He jsut kills you in so many ways, he's such a dominant "player" and competitor with a knack for winning.

I dont' think I'd even trade him for Chris Paul, Derrick Rose or Derron Williams to be honest. I wouldn't underestimate a guy who's lead a team to two championship runs in 3 years and who put up an epic, near triple double performance in the playoffs when his key guy ( KG ) was absent. I think only Oscar Robertson, Jordan and Chamberlain did what Rondo did that year...

Guy just has alot of heart. That's hard to find.

[bucknersrevenge]

Yeah, I've thought of that. If the guy is apparently a "lock down defender at the point with 6'3" height, can shoot and be at least a "decent" distributor with starter quality, you eventually will have to trade either him or Rondo to help bolster some other spot on the roster rather than using him as a back up.

In this context I was more using "real deal" more along the lines of how Delonte is the real deal as far as fitting into the NBA as a solid bench guy / occasional starter...

If Bradley turns out to be the real deal at a much higher, starting level we are in even better shape. 

So, how would you see Bradley fitting in if he ultimately projects to be a combo guard who is a much better SG than Delonte West but not as good of a PG as Delonte West?

The way Doc seems to run the team, if Bradley picks up defensive rotations, I expect him to be given a shot to win playing time at SG while West serves his suspension.  Then, regardless of how well he does (unless he plays so well that convinces people on this board that he really is the SG of the future), his playing time will be pulled back, including some infuriating DNP-Coach's decision stat lines.  Once West's role in the rotation is established, then Bradley might be re-added to the mix.

Are we putting the cart before the horse here regarding Delonte? Doesn't he still have to MAKE this team. IMO Bradley is already better defensively than West EVER was or will be and that was a major issue with Delonte his first go around along with the fact that his right appendage was clearly for show and not to be actually used.

This last post brought up a pet peeve of mine, as a south paw.  Here it is:  Lefties always get a hard time when they can't finish with their right hands.  However, there are countless righties who can't finish with their left.  They don't seem to get any flack about it.  It's only mentioned when a righty happens to be adequate with his left hand.  Then, of course, we ooh and aah and marvel over him.

Thank you,

The Council for Fair and Equitable Treatment of Left Handers

I'll concede the point about the weak left hand but what is more of a major concern is that West is simply a mediocre defender and I'm not sure where this assertion that he was good even came from. He was abysmal when it came to keeping his man in front of him his first go round here and I haven't seen that much has changed. But here we have Bradley, a kid who by all accounts can flat out get it done at that end. again West still has to make this team. I see posts with people already penning him into the rotation for X number of minutes. He still has to prove that he belongs here and is not gonna go all Arnold Schwarzenegger-Commando on everyone again.

[LooseCannon]

2. Bradley - appears maybe better suited for point guard, based on reports he can handle the ball very well and is at least a decent playmaker ( something I don't think West really is ). But apparently some feel Bradley, because of his shooting, can also play some off guard in the right spots based on his shooting and defensive ability, long wing span, etc.

We seem to be reading different things.  Everything I've read says that playmaking and ball-handling are skills that Bradley needs to learn to play point guard.  And I've yet to find anything that says he has played PG before.  It just feels like another case of an undersized shooting guard (and the guy has been a shooting guard all his life, from what I can tell) who a team might try to force into a point guard role because of his height and athletic tools.

It just feels like he is more likely to develop into a shooting guard who can play some back-up minutes at the point rather than a point guard who can also play the 2 position.

[BballTim]

Yeah, I've thought of that. If the guy is apparently a "lock down defender at the point with 6'3" height, can shoot and be at least a "decent" distributor with starter quality, you eventually will have to trade either him or Rondo to help bolster some other spot on the roster rather than using him as a back up.

In this context I was more using "real deal" more along the lines of how Delonte is the real deal as far as fitting into the NBA as a solid bench guy / occasional starter...

If Bradley turns out to be the real deal at a much higher, starting level we are in even better shape. 

So, how would you see Bradley fitting in if he ultimately projects to be a combo guard who is a much better SG than Delonte West but not as good of a PG as Delonte West?

The way Doc seems to run the team, if Bradley picks up defensive rotations, I expect him to be given a shot to win playing time at SG while West serves his suspension.  Then, regardless of how well he does (unless he plays so well that convinces people on this board that he really is the SG of the future), his playing time will be pulled back, including some infuriating DNP-Coach's decision stat lines.  Once West's role in the rotation is established, then Bradley might be re-added to the mix.

Are we putting the cart before the horse here regarding Delonte? Doesn't he still have to MAKE this team. IMO Bradley is already better defensively than West EVER was or will be and that was a major issue with Delonte his first go around along with the fact that his right appendage was clearly for show and not to be actually used.

This last post brought up a pet peeve of mine, as a south paw.  Here it is:  Lefties always get a hard time when they can't finish with their right hands.  However, there are countless righties who can't finish with their left.  They don't seem to get any flack about it.  It's only mentioned when a righty happens to be adequate with his left hand.  Then, of course, we ooh and aah and marvel over him.

Thank you,

The Council for Fair and Equitable Treatment of Left Handers

  Rondo got plenty of grief here about not finishing with his left after the 08-09 season.

[ScoobyDoo]

I've heard people say both, some say he started as a point and has decent point skills but has just played Off guard because of the systems he's in.

I haven't see that much live action on him. What I've seen of his ball handling though, it would seem he's much better at it than Delonte is.

But you could be right, maybe he is more in the mold like Delonte, under sized off guard who can play some point...

If that's the case you've got alot of duplication.

Or maybe Bradley turns out as a a better combo guard than Delonte and Delonte goes then...

Either way, I think we've got good talent at the combo guard spot, one way or another.

As always, I wish I could see more game footage of these guys because you can tell alot more than with highlights...

[LooseCannon]

I've heard people say both, some say he started as a point and has decent point skills but has just played Off guard because of the systems he's in.

In high school, it may be that he played SG because he played with talented point guards.  At Bellarmine, he played next to Abdul Gaddy, who seems to have been considered the #2 point guard in the class of 2009, behind John Wall.  When he transferred to Findlay Prep, he was in the backcourt with Cory Joseph, a top 20 prospect in the class of 2010 who is going to Texas.

I can see some confusion as he probably was assigned to guard the best opposing guard, which would be the point guard often enough.  I had hoped someone could clarify things.

I'm not so sure that Bradley should be sent to the D-League to learn how to play point guard, the way most probably assume he will be used.  1) If his defense is as advertised, I think he will get minutes.  2) If he needs to learn how to play the point, he might be better off being tutored by Doc Rivers.

My ideal scenario is that Bradley proves sufficiently able to contribute as a rookie (and I think Doc will give him some minutes if he is a better defender than Robinson and West) that preseason becomes a competition between Harangody, Wafer, and Gaffney for two spots based partly on who is the best backup small forward.

[ScoobyDoo]

Good info on Bradley 'Cannon, and your scenario sounds reasonable.

I agree if the kid has big time up side, let him hang and bang with the big boys all season and with Doc nipping at his heals. He'll ge tthe farthest the fastest that way.

Some people won't agree, but I've always been a big fan up putting these young guys feet to the fire from the get go, especially the good ones. The tough ones can handle it and they will rise, which is the point.

[gar]

You can rest assured that the C's have seen plenty of game footage. They took him over some players for a reason. How Delonte fits into the equation is a fair question because that is a circumstance that was harder to anticipate. Let's just hope that the fact that Delonte landed on our lap does not impede his development and that the competition does not become so cut throat that it get in the way of learning opportunities he would otherwise have.

[hwangjini_1]

I dont' think I'd even trade him for Chris Paul, Derrick Rose or Derron Williams to be honest. ... I think only Oscar Robertson, Jordan and Chamberlain did what Rondo did that year...

[/quote]

Geez. I like rondo, but could we lower the hyperbole level just a bit here? Placing rondo above bird, above magic Johnson, above Kobe  above moses malone et al is a bit much for me. 

[yupitsme]

I've watched him since high school and Avery is really good that's all I can say. Yes the NBA is different but in HS when he went against the top talent he was a few steps ahead. This guy can really play. His only weakness is his size and that's not horrible. We'll have to wait for it, but i'm excited. 

if I had to compare him to anybody it would be a defensive minded Iverson

[jarufu]

Yes I would LilRip. That;'s the ultimate position to be in I would think;l having two guys at the same position with starter / slash all star potential. That is far better than having one all star point and a basic scrub behind him.

The decision to make then becomes, who to trade based on your vision of the team.

Look, I love Rondo and think he's an elite, top 5 point. But if Bradley turns out to be a lock down defender at the point and can hit you with 20 a night, some from distance and dish out 6-7 assists per night, you have to consider what you can get for Rondo.

But bottom line, it comes to who you think ultimately will help you win more games...I think in almost any scenario I would be very hard pressed to trade Rondo. He jsut kills you in so many ways, he's such a dominant "player" and competitor with a knack for winning.

I dont' think I'd even trade him for Chris Paul, Derrick Rose or Derron Williams to be honest. I wouldn't underestimate a guy who's lead a team to two championship runs in 3 years and who put up an epic, near triple double performance in the playoffs when his key guy ( KG ) was absent. I think only Oscar Robertson, Jordan and Chamberlain did what Rondo did that year...

Guy just has alot of heart. That's hard to find.

I understand the logic in this but anytime the words "Trade" and "Rondo" appear in a sentence then everone needs to take a minute out and watch one of these ..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSWrjiBTMfk&feature=fvsr

Bradley would want to be really good and here's hoping it's a decision that we get discuss down the line .. 

[ScoobyDoo]

Good call on that Hwangjini_1, I didn't mean to say Rondo was better than the guys you mentioned.

Nowhere in my comments did I place Rondo above Bird, Magic, Kobe, Moses et al...their names weren't even mentioned...

I first said I probably wouldn't even trade Rondo for what many think are the top three points in the game today in Rose, Paul and Williams. Which means I'm saying I therefore consider Rondo as possibly the best of all the points today.

Most of Rondo's greatness can't be measured on stats. People look at these other guys' scoring and assist numbers and say, "oh, they're better than Rondo". Rondo knows how to win games better than any of them, that's why he's so special, it's not just the numbers with him.

I was making an argument about how difficult it would be to even consider trading Rondo. Part of that, and one indicator of what makes the kid so unbelievably special, is that he accomplished in one playoff season what only Oscar Robertson, Wilt and Jordan had accomplished...in the history of the game, in the history of all the players who have ever played in the league.

That is an unbelievably monumental achievement for a 24 year old, pint sized point guard. Only Wilt, Jordan, Oscar and Rondo have accomplihsed it, ever.

That means it's an indication of his greatness as a player. But it has nothing to do with comparing him to Bird, Magic, Jordan, Moses, etc. They are completely different topics.

Rondo can't sniff those guys yet, he's no where near them. That is a completely different league. Rondo is like a freshman in college compared to those guys careers.

Rondo's ultimate place in the game will be decided when he retires and the full breadth of his cummulative accomplishments can be measured.

Until then, he's a sophomore compared to Bird, Magic and Jordan.

However, if Bradley is a guy who can lock it down on D, light you up for 20 and rack up 6-7 assists a night, IMHO, any GM would be a fool not to at least "consider" which guy to keep ( Rondo or Bradley).

The answer will be determined by who helps you win more games, not by the numbers they put up.

Karl malone put up great numbers, but he's no Tim Duncan. There is a huge difference of the impact that those two players have on any given game and on a team's ability to win titles.

But that's just the way I look at...