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How we stack up against Miami
« on: August 12, 2010, 09:25:24 AM »

Offline MF Doom

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Miami Heat
Mario Chalmers Carlos Arroyo
Dwayne Wade    Eddie House
Lebron James   Mike Miller
Chris Bosh     Udonis Haslem  Juan Howard
Joel Anthony   Illgauskas     Dexter Pitman ..& few other scrubs
 
Boston Celtics
Rajon Rondo    Nate Robinson  Bradley
Ray Allen      Von Wafer
Paul Pierce    Quis Daniels
K. Garnett     Glen Davis
J. O'Neal      S. O'Neal     (Perkins)  


It's pretty clear that the C's have more depth down low. We have more depth then them even without our starting center who happens to be the second best bigman defender in the league. With that said, I see none of thier bigs (including Bosh) being a major threat. I also beleive our second unit is significantly stronger. I mean, Illgauskas gaurding Shaq? Mike Miller, however, could be very effective for them. Do I even need to mention that Rondo blew by Chalmers every chance he got last season?

All in all, we have more depth, and are bigger and tougher than them. Of course stopping Lebron and Wade is going to be a great challenge which is why it is key to go after a guy like Battier or Prince or Posey if possible. I'm really looking foward to killing Miami's hype and all of thier bandwagon fans.
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Re: How we stack up against Miami
« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2010, 09:32:49 AM »

Offline Snakehead

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I think they're not very smart if they don't use LeBron as their PG.  They should have him start at PG, Wade at SG, and Miller as the SF.  This gives them way more matchup issues and gives them a great shooter in their starting 5 to compinsate for LBJ and Wade's deficiencies there.

I think that will happen, but we'll see.


Another thing to consider with their lineup is though their bench may not be great, they will probably be staggering Wade and LBJ in the lineup so that one of them can always be on the court.  These guys have carried teams of a similar quality, so I think that they can dominate the ball and keep the 2nd units still pretty productive.


I think the inside game will be the matchup we have to work.  LBJ and Wade may tear us up but hopefully the bigs can meet them at the rim and at least not make it too easy.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2010, 09:43:09 AM by Snakehead »
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Re: How we stack up against Miami
« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2010, 10:04:28 AM »

Offline manl_lui

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Quote from: Snakehead on August 12, 2010, 09:32:49 AM
I think they're not very smart if they don't use LeBron as their PG.  They should have him start at PG, Wade at SG, and Miller as the SF.  This gives them way more matchup issues and gives them a great shooter in their starting 5 to compinsate for LBJ and Wade's deficiencies there.

I think that will happen, but we'll see.


Another thing to consider with their lineup is though their bench may not be great, they will probably be staggering Wade and LBJ in the lineup so that one of them can always be on the court.  These guys have carried teams of a similar quality, so I think that they can dominate the ball and keep the 2nd units still pretty productive.


I think the inside game will be the matchup we have to work.  LBJ and Wade may tear us up but hopefully the bigs can meet them at the rim and at least not make it too easy.

im not sure if Lebron being at pg will help them, Rondo yes can blow by Chalmers easily, but don't forget Rondo knows Lebron's game...for the last 2 seasons Lebron made Rondo looked bad...this year's playoffs, Rondo basically outplayed the whole Cavs...

I expect Rondo to also blow by James, and I expect a lot of steals from Rondo

also, with Mike Miller at starting sf, yes he can shoot really well, but he won't guard Paul as good as James did in the playoffs

i could be wrong we'll see
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Re: How we stack up against Miami
« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2010, 10:40:52 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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I think we match up well.  Our bench is loads better.   MIA is always going to be one player in foul trouble away from disaster. 

Hats off Celtics, we drove LeBron James to this move.  Now time to kick him some more.
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Re: How we stack up against Miami
« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2010, 10:48:33 AM »

Offline Snakehead

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Quote from: manl_lui on August 12, 2010, 10:04:28 AM
Quote from: Snakehead on August 12, 2010, 09:32:49 AM
I think they're not very smart if they don't use LeBron as their PG.  They should have him start at PG, Wade at SG, and Miller as the SF.  This gives them way more matchup issues and gives them a great shooter in their starting 5 to compinsate for LBJ and Wade's deficiencies there.

I think that will happen, but we'll see.


Another thing to consider with their lineup is though their bench may not be great, they will probably be staggering Wade and LBJ in the lineup so that one of them can always be on the court.  These guys have carried teams of a similar quality, so I think that they can dominate the ball and keep the 2nd units still pretty productive.


I think the inside game will be the matchup we have to work.  LBJ and Wade may tear us up but hopefully the bigs can meet them at the rim and at least not make it too easy.

im not sure if Lebron being at pg will help them, Rondo yes can blow by Chalmers easily, but don't forget Rondo knows Lebron's game...for the last 2 seasons Lebron made Rondo looked bad...this year's playoffs, Rondo basically outplayed the whole Cavs...

I expect Rondo to also blow by James, and I expect a lot of steals from Rondo

also, with Mike Miller at starting sf, yes he can shoot really well, but he won't guard Paul as good as James did in the playoffs

i could be wrong we'll see

James is a very good defender, an All-NBA defender, so I don't think he will be blown past that badly.  Rondo can blow past a lot of people but James can also meet him at the rim and the big part is that he can sag off of him in the half court just like everyone else does since he is not a shooting threat.  Then he can roam around and help and double team and also rebound, this is how Kobe had such a bad Game 7 but so many rebounds, he crashed the boards while sagging off Rondo.  That would be a big problem.

If they needed James to play Pierce they could do that by changing the lineup to be more convential.

But those are the offensive matchup for us, imagine our defensive ones?  Not very good.  How is Rondo playing James?  If Pierce does, then I'd guess our best matchups would be Ray on Miller and Rondo on Wade.  Not optimal either, Rondo is a good defender but he often gets blown past and no one shuts down Wade anyways.  And if Ray is on Wade, Miller shoots or posts Rondo.

It is a tough lineup to match up with I think.  That's why I think that's the route they should go with.
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Re: How we stack up against Miami
« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2010, 10:52:07 AM »

Offline Donoghus

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If they're starting Chalmers, they need him to bounce back in a big way.  He was pretty awful last season. 

I wouldn't exactly bank on that.
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Re: How we stack up against Miami
« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2010, 10:56:18 AM »

Offline MBunge

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Quote from: Snakehead on August 12, 2010, 09:32:49 AM
I think they're not very smart if they don't use LeBron as their PG.  


Has LeBron EVER played point guard?  Even in high school?

There will certainly be times when Wade, Bron and Miller are on the court together, but that can't be their primary lineup.

Mike
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Re: How we stack up against Miami
« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2010, 11:08:12 AM »

Offline Fafnir

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Quote from: MBunge on August 12, 2010, 10:56:18 AM
Quote from: Snakehead on August 12, 2010, 09:32:49 AM
I think they're not very smart if they don't use LeBron as their PG.  


Has LeBron EVER played point guard?  Even in high school?

There will certainly be times when Wade, Bron and Miller are on the court together, but that can't be their primary lineup.

Mike
He's basically been playing PG in one form or another since High School, he's always initiated the offense.

Now he's not a traditional point, but he can play the position at a very high level.
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Re: How we stack up against Miami
« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2010, 11:14:27 AM »

Offline Snakehead

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Quote from: Fafnir on August 12, 2010, 11:08:12 AM
Quote from: MBunge on August 12, 2010, 10:56:18 AM
Quote from: Snakehead on August 12, 2010, 09:32:49 AM
I think they're not very smart if they don't use LeBron as their PG. 


Has LeBron EVER played point guard?  Even in high school?

There will certainly be times when Wade, Bron and Miller are on the court together, but that can't be their primary lineup.

Mike
He's basically been playing PG in one form or another since High School, he's always initiated the offense.

Now he's not a traditional point, but he can play the position at a very high level.

Exaclty.  LeBron initiated all of Cleveland's offense, playing the Point Forward for them.  They didn't run plays and scheme for him as you would a PG, but Mike Brown had no mind for the offensive game at all. I believe if Miami did that they would be very successful. We've already heard the Magic Johnson comparisons out of Miami regarding LBJ and that would work very well for them. And with Wade and Miller playing alongside, you have 3 guys who can handle the ball and pass well.
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Re: How we stack up against Miami
« Reply #9 on: August 12, 2010, 11:14:51 AM »

Offline jolly_roger

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That big line-up and the refs are the only things that really worry me right now. Luckily when the playoffs come around we should have 5 bigs who know how to play to prevent too much foul trouble for us. But I'm seriously scared of how many stupid calls they're gonna get from the refs.
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Re: How we stack up against Miami
« Reply #10 on: August 12, 2010, 11:31:13 AM »

Offline MBunge

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Quote from: Fafnir on August 12, 2010, 11:08:12 AM
Quote from: MBunge on August 12, 2010, 10:56:18 AM
Quote from: Snakehead on August 12, 2010, 09:32:49 AM
I think they're not very smart if they don't use LeBron as their PG.  


Has LeBron EVER played point guard?  Even in high school?

There will certainly be times when Wade, Bron and Miller are on the court together, but that can't be their primary lineup.

Mike
He's basically been playing PG in one form or another since High School, he's always initiated the offense.

Now he's not a traditional point, but he can play the position at a very high level.

Being a great passer is not the same thing as being a point guard.  I'm not sure about high school, but LeBron has NEVER played PG in the NBA.  He's never even really been a point-forward like Chris Webber used to be.

LeBron's career assist average is 7 a game.  For a small forward, that's outstanding.  If he's been playing PG all this time, he actually hasn't been doing that amazing a job of it because Michael Jordan's career assist average is 5.3 a game and no one EVER though Jordan was playing PG.  LeBron's best assist year he averaged 8.6 a game.  In Jordan's best assist year, he averaged 8 a game.  Heck, two years ago Wade averaged as many assists per game as LeBron and no one thought Wade was a pg.

All of which means that LeBron is an incredible passer for small forward and a great scorer.  However, it does not make him a PG.

Mike
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Re: How we stack up against Miami
« Reply #11 on: August 12, 2010, 11:40:24 AM »

Offline manl_lui

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Quote from: MBunge on August 12, 2010, 11:31:13 AM
Quote from: Fafnir on August 12, 2010, 11:08:12 AM
Quote from: MBunge on August 12, 2010, 10:56:18 AM
Quote from: Snakehead on August 12, 2010, 09:32:49 AM
I think they're not very smart if they don't use LeBron as their PG.  


Has LeBron EVER played point guard?  Even in high school?

There will certainly be times when Wade, Bron and Miller are on the court together, but that can't be their primary lineup.

Mike
He's basically been playing PG in one form or another since High School, he's always initiated the offense.

Now he's not a traditional point, but he can play the position at a very high level.

Being a great passer is not the same thing as being a point guard.  I'm not sure about high school, but LeBron has NEVER played PG in the NBA.  He's never even really been a point-forward like Chris Webber used to be.

LeBron's career assist average is 7 a game.  For a small forward, that's outstanding.  If he's been playing PG all this time, he actually hasn't been doing that amazing a job of it because Michael Jordan's career assist average is 5.3 a game and no one EVER though Jordan was playing PG.  LeBron's best assist year he averaged 8.6 a game.  In Jordan's best assist year, he averaged 8 a game.  Heck, two years ago Wade averaged as many assists per game as LeBron and no one thought Wade was a pg.

All of which means that LeBron is an incredible passer for small forward and a great scorer.  However, it does not make him a PG.

Mike

I agree with everyone above me...being a great passer does not equal to pg

Kevin Garnett is a great passer, should he be a pg? yes their team is very good, but the big problem still remains,

can lebron and wade and Bosh play well together, all 3 of them have ego issues, i bet if they are down x amount of points, someone will try to be hero

look at Lebron, he just jacks 3 over and over again
DWade, ok he made 7 3s in game 4, big deal, 4th quarter he totally won the game himself...but the point is, whenever they are down, these people will just try to be hero...won't pass the ball, just shoot or drive

chemistry might be an issue with that team
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Re: How we stack up against Miami
« Reply #12 on: August 12, 2010, 11:56:11 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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All NBA defender at SF isn't an all NBA defender at PG.

I think he should have never been NBA in defense.  It was something they did to hype him up.  But its a reach, you want to tell me he was a better defender than Tony Allen?  Heck no!  Another hat in his feather not earned by his Big Daddy Stern. 

Anyone who takes his all NBA defense seriously didn't watch him play much.  Sure he affects peeps on D more through tiring them out with his offense.   That was the case of PP this year.   Not with his lockdown D.  His all NBA selection was joke!
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Re: How we stack up against Miami
« Reply #13 on: August 12, 2010, 11:59:18 AM »

Offline MBunge

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Quote from: manl_lui on August 12, 2010, 11:40:24 AM
chemistry might be an issue with that team


And by "chemisty", people mean stuff like this.

In Ray Allen's 1st year in Boston, he took 986 shots.  He took 1100 shots the year before in Seattle, but played in 18 fewer games.  In KG's 1st year in Boston, he had the 3rd lowest shot total in his career.  Only during his rookie year and a season where he was hurt and only played 47 games did KG take fewer shots.  And when Ray and KG arrived, Pierce ended up taking his lowest number of shots since his 2nd year in the league.

Wade, Bron and Bosh are going to have to play much, much smaller roles in Miami's offense than they're used to and they'll have to do in during their prime.  They could pull it off, but it's going to be more of a challenge than guys like Jeff Van Gundy expect.

Mike
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Re: How we stack up against Miami
« Reply #14 on: August 12, 2010, 12:04:20 PM »

Offline 2short

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How do they stack up against us?
Bosh is an all star but he honestly doesn't scare me in the least.  Wade is a guy who can't be stopped period.  James is great but has shown against the celtics to (giveup?) or be simply outplayed by our defense.
pg celtics big advantage
sg heat advantage
sf heat advantage
pf celtics advantage
c celtics advantage
bench celtics advantage big time

I actually think miami is better with miller starting
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