Press Conference Schedule is Up! 2010 Celticsblog Draft: Draft Board

[Roy H.]

In case anybody missed it, Gainesville's position is exactly right.  See my long-winded attempt of an explanation in #3 below:

BLOCKBUSTER TRADE
DEN trades Gilbert Arenas, Luol Deng, Paul Millsap, Marcus Camby, 11.21

DAL trades Tim Duncan, Taj Gibson, Trevor Ariza, Rasual Butler

I am stunned that this trade is being allowed.

I am a little too.  There's no way nick's original trade getting Duncan could have been more lopsided than this.  The highest picked player by DEN here was the 30th pick in the 2nd round.  Did nick include a pick higher than that in his trade?

EDIT:  I would imagine the only non-involved person who likes this trade is IP.

I predicted this argument would be made, and Faf and I discussed it.   Here's the substance of what was decided:

1)  The Commish can't let complaining GMs influence his decision-making process; whether he thought something is fair or not is up to him, and him alone.

2) If you go by draft position alone, Denver gave up more value than the previously vetoed trade, although in that trade the top pick offered was higher.

3) It doesn't make a lot of sense to look at players in terms of draft position.  When considering pre-draft trades, the Commish can only assume what will be available.  In other words, he's looking at "the average late 3rd rounder" or "the average 7th round pick".  Instead, we're considering actual players, and the fact is, some very talented players slide.  In past years, Arenas has had a 1st round value.  If somebody thinks he's still at about that level, so be it.  In short, the name "Gilbert Arenas" has more value than somebody saying "I'll give you a ___ round pick".  In one, the value is concrete, in the other, it's speculative.

That said, we both agree that Dallas screwed itself.

[Fafnir]

Yeah Gainsville you're right, I was just trying to provide all of the relevant data for people to look at.

[nickagneta]

My problem here is is the veto supposed to be used to protect the integrity of the draft process or the integrity of the game as a whole?

Is the veto being used to protect perceived value of possible future picks or is it being used to protect franchises from making lopsided trades and having better/experienced GMs take advantage of worse/less experienced GMs?

A GM is allowed to make an awful pick, make an awful trade of just players but not allowed to make an awful trade of picks before they are made?

That's illogical to me!!

[Fafnir]

3) The Commissioner has the power to veto any trade at his own discretion. Trade proposals seen as detrimental to the competitiveness of the league may be rejected.  However, the Commish will listen to justifying cases from both owners if a trade is in question.

Vetoes aren't about whether or not its a bad trade for the team in question but rather whether or not its detrimental to the league.

I would have vetoed a heck of a lot of trades if it was just about the deal being even.

[JSD]

ha, I was just about to say that for you jsaad.

I had stepped outside to make sure it went through, and when I saw StartOrien was having internet troubles I logged in on my phone. I didn't want to miss the pick. Thanks anyway though, IP.

[nickagneta]

3) The Commissioner has the power to veto any trade at his own discretion. Trade proposals seen as detrimental to the competitiveness of the league may be rejected.  However, the Commish will listen to justifying cases from both owners if a trade is in question.

Vetoes aren't about whether or not its a bad trade for the team in question but rather whether or not its detrimental to the league.

I would have vetoed a heck of a lot of trades if it was just about the deal being even.

You know what, I had this very strong counter argument typed up. But it's not worth it. I got screwed and others haven't. That's life. You made a mistake in not letting the game play out and you'll never admit to it especially after your decisions made there after.

Whatever.




In other news every player on the Boxers is now on the block. PM me offers.

[riah32]

Why doesnt the board have me drafting Will Bynum with the 22nd pick of the 9th round?

[JSD]

Why doesnt the board have me drafting Will Bynum with the 22nd pick of the 9th round?

Because the board wanted me to draft him with the 10th pick of round 10?

[indeedproceed]

Why doesnt the board have me drafting Will Bynum with the 22nd pick of the 9th round?

Because keeping track of stuff is hard when you have a full time job and sometimes stuff gets let behind. Its up to you fine citizens to point it out.

[indeedproceed]

And wow...I step away for a second to play some basketball with my home boys and everything blows up.

[indeedproceed]

EDIT:  I would imagine the only non-involved person who likes this trade is IP.

Why would you say that?

[nickagneta]

EDIT:  I would imagine the only non-involved person who likes this trade is IP.

Why would you say that?

Because this trade makes yours look even

EDIT: Or because he knew this trade would be controversial and make everyone forget about your trade.

It's like being the whipping boy in sports stories just before Tiger's transgressions came out. Now no one even remembers that guys name or what he did.

[Roy H.]

EDIT:  I would imagine the only non-involved person who likes this trade is IP.

Why would you say that?

Because this trade makes yours look even

No, no...  nothing makes IP's trade look even.

That said, it's best to avoid calling out other GMs by name; it's hard to judge tone.

[indeedproceed]

EDIT:  I would imagine the only non-involved person who likes this trade is IP.

Why would you say that?

Because this trade makes yours look even

I don't think this trade is even. Looking back my trade was ill-advised, but I can live with it. Sometimes GM's get bored..sometimes they over think things and make bad trades. At this point in the draft its almost inevitable.

I will say this though about the trade. I think Gainsville got much better value there. I also think that this is a contest, not a handicapping everyone gets a star event, and a commish can only do so much. If CFF thinks his team is better after the trade, and when he looks at the names on the screen he likes what he sees, its really not up to anyone to hammer on him about it.

You might disagree with what he did, but that's where it ends.

Regarding application of the veto: Its a hard thing to do, people are going to disagree about whether 1 + 1 equals two, let alone something subjective like this. If you guys want to spend the rest of the game yelling at the ref over a holding call, be my guest..the best case scenario is you run out of breath. The smart thing to do is discuss it at the owners meeting in February.

[indeedproceed]

And if you guys want a distraction...for 20 TPs, who can guess the name of the guy I'm going to pick tomorrow with 10(1)?

Hint: It's controversial. No mod entries allowed.