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A Juggernaut Frontcourt
« on: August 05, 2010, 09:59:59 AM »

Offline JoeRowe23

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Okay when Perk comes back this team with have one beefed up frontcourt.

PF: Kevin Garnett, Glenn Davis, (Jermaine O’Neil) {Rasheed Wallace if he stays}

C: Jermaine O’Neil, Kendrick Perkins, Shaquille O’Neil, Semih Erden, (Glenn Davis)

Our Frontcourt is strong if not the strongest in the league right now and if Sheed ends up back on the team it won’t even be a question. Rebounding cost us the Finals this year, false calls or not. So now we have length and strength inside hoping to ease those memories with new ones of banner 18.
Our huge stash in big men allow us to.....

-Give out hard fouls.

-Have fresh legs during long games

-Rest starters

-Decrease the chance a key player on our frontline sustains a significant injury

-Have quality players in at all times.

-Encase of injuries, have capable backup from PF to C.

-Rebound and crash the glass hard.

-Prevent second chance points.

-Wear out the opponent’s big men by forcing coaches to play them longer in games.

-Get teams and key players in foul trouble

-Disrupt offensive flows (Dwight Howard anyone?)

-Stop penetration to the hoop and add defensive pressure.

This line up is intimidating, especially if I’m the Heat. Your telling me that Bosh, Joel Anthony, Zydrunas Ilgauskas, Juwan Howard and Udonis Haslem have to stop this? The Size and length of the physical Celtic’s should overpower the light framed, shorter Heat. If we can make a impact here then everything else should fall in place like always. I’m happy Danny kept things together!

On another note, anyone else tired of the Heat? They may be the paper champs of the world…..but come on that means nothing.
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Re: A Juggernaut Frontcourt
« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2010, 10:16:03 AM »

Offline manl_lui

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Our 4 and 5 position will dominate the Heat, I'm just worried about Lebron, not so much Wade because he will have a hard time chasing Ray Ray off screens...

but then again we lost TA so defending Wade will be quite harder...unless Marquis steps up his D
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Re: A Juggernaut Frontcourt
« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2010, 10:25:18 AM »

Offline kozlodoev

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And all this doesn't change the fact that championships are won on defense.
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Re: A Juggernaut Frontcourt
« Reply #3 on: August 05, 2010, 10:33:16 AM »

Offline Greenbean

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Quote from: kozlodoev on August 05, 2010, 10:25:18 AM
And all this doesn't change the fact that championships are won on defense.

So you think we have dowgraded our team defensively?

I think I have seen you post elsewhere that Shaq cant defend anymore. I dont agree but even so, we will be a comparable team defensively to last year by the time May rolls around.
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Re: A Juggernaut Frontcourt
« Reply #4 on: August 05, 2010, 10:35:19 AM »

Offline Green Pride

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I think how good this move is all depends on Doc. We all saw in the playoffs that the Cavs were better off with Shaq off the floor, and Mike Brown either didn't see it, or didn't have the cojones to bench Shaq. In the playoffs, if we have Perk back, the usual tendency is to shorten the rotation, which would mean J.O. and BBD as the first bigs off the bench, and Shaq playing the Shelden Williams role. If that's the case, I'm worried that Shaq is not going to be happy with that. It will be up to Doc to manage the egos and also to put the best team on the floor.

At the same time, you never know about players coming back from injury, and so I like the insurance aspect of the move. I see Shaq as a great move from November to January, a good move from February to April, and a could work/could backfire move from April to June.
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Re: A Juggernaut Frontcourt
« Reply #5 on: August 05, 2010, 10:38:09 AM »

Offline clover

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Quote from: manl_lui on August 05, 2010, 10:16:03 AM
Our 4 and 5 position will dominate the Heat, I'm just worried about Lebron, not so much Wade because he will have a hard time chasing Ray Ray off screens...

but then again we lost TA so defending Wade will be quite harder...unless Marquis steps up his D

Wing defense is clearly the remaining issue for the team and in preparation for Miami.  If Danny can't get what he wants in August, however, I think he'll wait through camp and see what he's got, maybe not even making his move until mid-season.
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Re: A Juggernaut Frontcourt
« Reply #6 on: August 05, 2010, 10:45:20 AM »

Offline manl_lui

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Quote from: clover on August 05, 2010, 10:38:09 AM
Quote from: manl_lui on August 05, 2010, 10:16:03 AM
Our 4 and 5 position will dominate the Heat, I'm just worried about Lebron, not so much Wade because he will have a hard time chasing Ray Ray off screens...

but then again we lost TA so defending Wade will be quite harder...unless Marquis steps up his D

Wing defense is clearly the remaining issue for the team and in preparation for Miami.  If Danny can't get what he wants in August, however, I think he'll wait through camp and see what he's got, maybe not even making his move until mid-season.

I agree, Posey is washed up, but that's because NO isn't making playoffs and hes not motivated

I believe KG could motivate him again if he were to be here again, problem is, I don't think he's worth Sheed's contract
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Re: A Juggernaut Frontcourt
« Reply #7 on: August 05, 2010, 10:46:20 AM »

Offline Greenbean

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Quote from: Green Pride on August 05, 2010, 10:35:19 AM
I think how good this move is all depends on Doc. We all saw in the playoffs that the Cavs were better off with Shaq off the floor, and Mike Brown either didn't see it, or didn't have the cojones to bench Shaq. In the playoffs, if we have Perk back, the usual tendency is to shorten the rotation, which would mean J.O. and BBD as the first bigs off the bench, and Shaq playing the Shelden Williams role. If that's the case, I'm worried that Shaq is not going to be happy with that. It will be up to Doc to manage the egos and also to put the best team on the floor.

At the same time, you never know about players coming back from injury, and so I like the insurance aspect of the move. I see Shaq as a great move from November to January, a good move from February to April, and a could work/could backfire move from April to June.

I am really tired of hearing that when Shaq was off the floor, the Cavs were better. Maybe it wasnt Shaq but the combination of players. For example, when Varejau was ON the floor I thought the Cavs were the better team. It is difficult to tell unless you really break it down. I thought Shaq was very effective in that series when put in good positions. For example, he guarded KG for stretches very effectively when Mike Brown finally realized Jamison was awful.

What Shaq can bring.

-Big body on defense
-Rebounding
-Post presence on offense

Defenciencies:

-pick and roll defense (name 5 centers in the NBA who excell at P&R defense)
-running the floor
- Can clog the lane (and also create open space for shooters...which we have plenty of)

He will be coming off the bench for us and situationally can win us some games. I trust our coaching staff to recognize those situations and put him in positions to suceed.

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Re: A Juggernaut Frontcourt
« Reply #8 on: August 05, 2010, 11:09:48 AM »

Offline manl_lui

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Quote from: Greenbean on August 05, 2010, 10:46:20 AM
Quote from: Green Pride on August 05, 2010, 10:35:19 AM
I think how good this move is all depends on Doc. We all saw in the playoffs that the Cavs were better off with Shaq off the floor, and Mike Brown either didn't see it, or didn't have the cojones to bench Shaq. In the playoffs, if we have Perk back, the usual tendency is to shorten the rotation, which would mean J.O. and BBD as the first bigs off the bench, and Shaq playing the Shelden Williams role. If that's the case, I'm worried that Shaq is not going to be happy with that. It will be up to Doc to manage the egos and also to put the best team on the floor.

At the same time, you never know about players coming back from injury, and so I like the insurance aspect of the move. I see Shaq as a great move from November to January, a good move from February to April, and a could work/could backfire move from April to June.

I am really tired of hearing that when Shaq was off the floor, the Cavs were better. Maybe it wasnt Shaq but the combination of players. For example, when Varejau was ON the floor I thought the Cavs were the better team. It is difficult to tell unless you really break it down. I thought Shaq was very effective in that series when put in good positions. For example, he guarded KG for stretches very effectively when Mike Brown finally realized Jamison was awful.

What Shaq can bring.

-Big body on defense
-Rebounding
-Post presence on offense

Defenciencies:

-pick and roll defense (name 5 centers in the NBA who excell at P&R defense)
-running the floor
- Can clog the lane (and also create open space for shooters...which we have plenty of)

He will be coming off the bench for us and situationally can win us some games. I trust our coaching staff to recognize those situations and put him in positions to suceed.



I agree, I trust Doc in working Shaq into our rotation and situations...

Mike Brown is a bad coach, i mean come on, Shaq, Lebron, Mo, Antawn, Big Z, i mean Antawn and Big Z probably not that big of a deal, but he had somewhat of an OK piece to win the championship and he failed...

If Doc or Phil Jackson was coaching that team, it would've been a lot different
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Re: A Juggernaut Frontcourt
« Reply #9 on: August 05, 2010, 11:33:41 AM »

Offline MBunge

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Quote from: kozlodoev on August 05, 2010, 10:25:18 AM
And all this doesn't change the fact that championships are won on defense.

Boston held LA to 89 and 83 points the last two games of the Finals and still lost.  There's a point where you simply have to be able to score.

Mike
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Re: A Juggernaut Frontcourt
« Reply #10 on: August 05, 2010, 11:46:14 AM »

Offline MBunge

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Quote from: Green Pride on August 05, 2010, 10:35:19 AM
I think how good this move is all depends on Doc. We all saw in the playoffs that the Cavs were better off with Shaq off the floor,


The idea that Cleveland was better without Shaq has become the conventional wisdom and there is evidence to support that view.  But if you go back just one more year to Shaq in Phoenix, he had the 3rd best +/- rating on the Suns and Shaq was part of three of the top four 5 man units with the best +/- for the team.

Mike
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Re: A Juggernaut Frontcourt
« Reply #11 on: August 05, 2010, 11:46:26 AM »

Offline moiso

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Quote from: manl_lui on August 05, 2010, 10:45:20 AM
Quote from: clover on August 05, 2010, 10:38:09 AM
Quote from: manl_lui on August 05, 2010, 10:16:03 AM
Our 4 and 5 position will dominate the Heat, I'm just worried about Lebron, not so much Wade because he will have a hard time chasing Ray Ray off screens...

but then again we lost TA so defending Wade will be quite harder...unless Marquis steps up his D

Wing defense is clearly the remaining issue for the team and in preparation for Miami.  If Danny can't get what he wants in August, however, I think he'll wait through camp and see what he's got, maybe not even making his move until mid-season.

I agree, Posey is washed up, but that's because NO isn't making playoffs and hes not motivated

I believe KG could motivate him again if he were to be here again, problem is, I don't think he's worth Sheed's contract
He looked about 20lbs heavier last year than he did in Boston.  That's really gotta hurt his game.
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Re: A Juggernaut Frontcourt
« Reply #12 on: August 05, 2010, 12:07:31 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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I kind of feel like a lot of people are discounting the potential loss of Brian Scalabrine. This was a guy that came in, played smart basketball, set clean picks, nailed the open threes. He got board after board, blew past people on the dribble and never complained about his role. The brain doctor also said he was one of the smartest players on the team.
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Re: A Juggernaut Frontcourt
« Reply #13 on: August 05, 2010, 12:15:22 PM »

Offline guava_wrench

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Quote from: Greenbean on August 05, 2010, 10:33:16 AM
Quote from: kozlodoev on August 05, 2010, 10:25:18 AM
And all this doesn't change the fact that championships are won on defense.

So you think we have dowgraded our team defensively?

I think I have seen you post elsewhere that Shaq cant defend anymore. I dont agree but even so, we will be a comparable team defensively to last year by the time May rolls around.
Not only is Perk iffy, but I don't think Shaq & JO can match Sheed's level of defense.

Regarding the question the OP posed about being tired of the Heat -- I am actually a lot more tired of people complaining about the heat. The press really hasn't been particularly obsessed with the Heat since those first few days.

I also question the overconfidence some might have regarding our 4 & 5 spots. It isn't clear that we have even a single legitimate all star at those 2 spots. We have 3 (or 4) former greats who are well into their declines. Bynum, Gasol and Odom seems stronger to me for the time being.
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Re: A Juggernaut Frontcourt
« Reply #14 on: August 05, 2010, 12:19:45 PM »

Offline vjcsmoke

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Quote from: celticsclay on August 05, 2010, 12:07:31 PM
I kind of feel like a lot of people are discounting the potential loss of Brian Scalabrine. This was a guy that came in, played smart basketball, set clean picks, nailed the open threes. He got board after board, blew past people on the dribble and never complained about his role. The brain doctor also said he was one of the smartest players on the team.

Ok, you're joking right?  Scalabrine was not worth his contract.  Losing him is addition by subtraction because we can now use his roster slot/money for a better player.
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