Shaq wants to be a Celtic

[Asijs]

About Shaq, here's answer to my twitter question about Shaq and C`s

CavsInsider216 @Asijs Not lately. Shaq doesn't want to come off the bench and with the Celts signing Jermain

CavsInsider216 @Asijs No but since the Celtics have Jermaine O'neal and Perkins. Things aren't looking good because shaq

CavsInsider216 @Asijs No,but since the Celts already signed J.O'neal and have Perkins. Things don't look good because Shaq says he won't come off the bench

[guava_wrench]

Who spread the floor when the Cs won the title in 2008?  PJ Brown?  I'd argue that Sheed didn't spread the floor that much as the season went on because he couldn't hit a three to save his life.

Yes, P.J. Brown did. He is actually able to hit a jump shot from outside 5 feet, unlike Shaq. Wallace shot 35% from three during the playoffs, and made teams pay for leaving him open.

Shaq didn't kill the Suns offense.  He just helped expose Steve Nash's limitations.

Like the limitation of being unable to win with a plodding 400 lbs. center with inflated ego and diminishing skills? Horrible. I would have been eager to see Shaq come to Boston and expose Rondo's limitations... if I weren't a Celtics fan.

And if Boston had had Shaq in game 7, they'd be raising another banner this fall cause there's NO WAY Boston gets manhandled on the boards with Shaq in the game.

If Boston had Shaq, they may not even have been in the finals.

If we had Shaq, the team probably implodes when we end the season with that tough run and Shaq starts running his mouth to point fingers.

[LilRip]

Firstly, Perk is a huge factor in Boston's lack of offensive efficiency.  That's because his lack of production or even potential to produce offense forces the other 4 players on the court to compensate.

  We aren't a very inefficient offensive team, and our inefficiency is due mainly to turnovers and a lack of offensive rebounding. Shaq won't help a ton with either of these situations. He'll help a little with the offense, especially late in the clock, but I don't think he'll make us much more efficient. 

actually, we are quite an average offensive team that tends to sputter at times and get red-hot at other times. the reason we're so good is that league-best defense.

and Perk is not a good offensive player and not comparable to Shaq. It's not that Shaq is still dominating. It's just that Perk is a poor offensive player. i don't think Perk has ever drawn a double team in his career while Shaq will still command a double team at times at his age. On top of that, he can pass very well out of the post. Give Shaq the kind of touches that Perk got last year and i bet he'll turn it over a lot less and convert a lot more.



- LilRip

Actually just the opposite we were very efficient offensive team that turned the ball over too much and didn't get enough defensive rebounds.  top 5 FG%, top 2 assists.  And even the TOs are stat can be misleading. Most of Rondos TOs are plays that 99% of NBA won't even try.  Should he try less maybe but, he has the talent to make the plays.  We lost game 7 of the Finals in LA because we couldn't grab a defensive rebound (after playing the best defense all year) and Ray Allen building a brick house.

Yes the rebounds hurt but we lost game 7 for a number of reasons. Being up 13, LA started getting awarded trips to the line and we could've kept up with them had our offense not stalled. Yes, we have a complicated and effective offense and yet, we're very turnover prone (not to mention that our offense stalls from time to time)

point is, we're not a great offensive team.

  By the same token, if we'd won the game it would have been because LA's offense was shut down so much.

  I saw the same long offensive lulls that everyone else did during the season, but how many did we see in the playoffs? Not nearly as many, and our playoffs run was against 4 of the top 6 defenses in the league last year (excluding the Celts. Our offense held up pretty well considering the quality of defense we played against.

I'm kinda preoccupied right now so i can't be bothered to verify the stats but i'd figure we're on the lower end of FGA and FTA. and since it's probably Rondo who takes the most FT's in our team (because who gets to the line other than him and Pierce?), we probably don't have a great FT% either. I'm also almost sure we're the absolute worst at O-Rebs (and perhaps also Total Rebounding). and i'd think that we're one of the more turnover-prone teams. Combine high-turnover numbers with a low FGA and low O-Reb with an inability to get the line... and voila! you have a bad offensive team. It's because each miss/turnover of ours means a lot more than a miss/turnover to say, a team like Phoenix or LA. Fortunately, great FG% is our saving grace and that's why i think we're average when it comes to offense.

  While this is all true, going from Shaq to Perk doesn't really fix this for us. It won't help with offensive rebounds and it won't really help with turnovers. It may or may not help with FG%, but that's already a strength of ours.

Well of course we're great because of our D. if we were an average defensive team, no way do we even get past the 2nd round. The point i'm trying to make, setting aside first the fact that we're probably the best defensive team out there in the league, is that we don't have great offense. We have good offense with a great FG% but then again, FG% is only one aspect of offense.

and i have to disagree with you. I think having Shaq on the floor helps the offense (compared to Perk). It's hard to quantify but i'd think teams would pay more attention to Shaq rather than Perk and plus, Shaq boasts a passing game that Perk doesn't. and Shaq has a post game that Perk doesn't. He'll help the offense because we'll have 5 playmakers on the floor (if Shaq is in the starting lineup) or we'll have better offense with the bench. If Perk played with the bench unit last year, that unit would be hard-pressed for points (Nate, RA, TA, BBD). I think Shaq would be useful with that unit.

Perk is much better defensively than Shaq. I'm not gonna debate that. but remember, we're bringing Shaq in for backup center duties and/or to fill in for Perk while he's out. Who are the decent backup Centers in the league? Gortat? and... i can't think of anyone else.



- LilRip

[toinewalka]

I think Shaq fits perfectly for this team AT THE RIGHT PRICE.  If we can get him for a cheap S&T or vet min, I think he is a great fit.  We were a good team in the paint last season, but not a great one.  From watching, the two things that stuck out to me were our inability to stop tall centers from shooting over the top of us, and being able to dump the ball inside and put "foul-trouble-pressure" on their D and get back-to-the-basket points.  I know Shaq has fallen off, and I'm not pretending we'll make him any younger, but he was putting that pressure on us for CLE last year, and coming off the bench for limited minutes might be exactly what he needs to be more than effective.  Our front court is made up of space-the-floor jump shooters and Perk.  It would be nice to have another guy shove people around and take up space.

AT THE RIGHT PRICE.

[Redz]

If we get Shaq I think it's best to start him and let JO come off the bench.  Give JO the brunt of the minutes, but let Shaq play with the starters 15-20 minutes per game. 

Keeping JO on the bench would mean less of an adjustment when Perk returns, then we could rest up Shaq for the playoffs.

[kozlodoev]

About Shaq, here's answer to my twitter question about Shaq and C`s

CavsInsider216 @Asijs Not lately. Shaq doesn't want to come off the bench and with the Celts signing Jermain

CavsInsider216 @Asijs No but since the Celtics have Jermaine O'neal and Perkins. Things aren't looking good because shaq

CavsInsider216 @Asijs No,but since the Celts already signed J.O'neal and have Perkins. Things don't look good because Shaq says he won't come off the bench

Right, it's on Twitter, so it must be true.

[MBunge]

Who spread the floor when the Cs won the title in 2008?  PJ Brown?  I'd argue that Sheed didn't spread the floor that much as the season went on because he couldn't hit a three to save his life.

Yes, P.J. Brown did. He is actually able to hit a jump shot from outside 5 feet, unlike Shaq. Wallace shot 35% from three during the playoffs, and made teams pay for leaving him open.

Shaq didn't kill the Suns offense.  He just helped expose Steve Nash's limitations.

Like the limitation of being unable to win with a plodding 400 lbs. center with inflated ego and diminishing skills? Horrible. I would have been eager to see Shaq come to Boston and expose Rondo's limitations... if I weren't a Celtics fan.

And if Boston had had Shaq in game 7, they'd be raising another banner this fall cause there's NO WAY Boston gets manhandled on the boards with Shaq in the game.

If Boston had Shaq, they may not even have been in the finals.

I love what PJ Brown did for Boston in helping them win #18 and he played very well against LA in the Finals, but let's be real.

In the playoffs that year, PJ was 26 of 56 from the field.  He had 0 baskets and 5 rebounds TOTAL in the Atlanta series.  He had 5 baskets and 19 boards TOTAL in the Cleveland series.

And in 18 regular season games for Boston, PJ averaged less than 3 rebounds a game made a grand total of 14 shots.  He made less than 1 basket a game.  Boston is definitely going to need more than that from their back up center next season.

As for Wallace, he shot less than 30% from 3 in the regular season AND in the Finals.

Steve Nash didn't win with Shaq.  Steve Nash didn't win without Shaq.  LeBron James did manage to have the best record in the league with Shaq.  It is true that Nash couldn't play the way he wants to play with Shaq on the court.  It is also true that they way Nash wants to play has delivered 0 titles and 0 finals appearances to Phoenix, so I don't think Shaq's really the problem.

Again, Shaq's stats last year.

12 points, 6.7 rebounds, 1.2 blocks, 1.5 assists in the regular season in 23.4 minutes a game.

11.5 points, 5.5 rebounds, 1.2 blocks, 1.4 assists in the playoffs in 22.1 minutes a game.

Now, as has been repeated endlessly in this thread, Shaq has severe defensive limitations at the point in his career.  However, he's still a good one-on-one post defender, so he's not completely useless on defense.  And as I've said, if Shaq wants to come to Boston and be a starter, I have no interest in that.

But with Perk out most of the year and no idea what his physical condition will be when he gets back, if you want #18 then the Celtics have got to have a legitimate back up center.  Not some vet min guy who's only value is in the 6 fouls he can commit every game.  There is no one, NO ONE, on the market who would be a better back up center for this team than Shaq.

Mike

[MBunge]

Who spread the floor when the Cs won the title in 2008?  PJ Brown?  I'd argue that Sheed didn't spread the floor that much as the season went on because he couldn't hit a three to save his life.

Yes, P.J. Brown did. He is actually able to hit a jump shot from outside 5 feet, unlike Shaq. Wallace shot 35% from three during the playoffs, and made teams pay for leaving him open.

Shaq didn't kill the Suns offense.  He just helped expose Steve Nash's limitations.

Like the limitation of being unable to win with a plodding 400 lbs. center with inflated ego and diminishing skills? Horrible. I would have been eager to see Shaq come to Boston and expose Rondo's limitations... if I weren't a Celtics fan.

And if Boston had had Shaq in game 7, they'd be raising another banner this fall cause there's NO WAY Boston gets manhandled on the boards with Shaq in the game.

If Boston had Shaq, they may not even have been in the finals.

If we had Shaq, the team probably implodes when we end the season with that tough run and Shaq starts running his mouth to point fingers.

Or maybe if Shaq was on the team he gets everybody to cut the crap and we don't have the chemistry problems that caused Boston to be a .500 team the last 2/3rds of the season.  As slowed down as he's gotten, Shaq also doesn't treat regular season games as an extended training camp the way Sheed did.

Mike

[Mike-Dub]

About Shaq, here's answer to my twitter question about Shaq and C`s

CavsInsider216 @Asijs Not lately. Shaq doesn't want to come off the bench and with the Celts signing Jermain

CavsInsider216 @Asijs No but since the Celtics have Jermaine O'neal and Perkins. Things aren't looking good because shaq

CavsInsider216 @Asijs No,but since the Celts already signed J.O'neal and have Perkins. Things don't look good because Shaq says he won't come off the bench

If these quotes prove to be true don't want him. 

[kozlodoev]

In the playoffs that year, PJ was 26 of 56 from the field.  He had 0 baskets and 5 rebounds TOTAL in the Atlanta series.  He had 5 baskets and 19 boards TOTAL in the Cleveland series.

And in 18 regular season games for Boston, PJ averaged less than 3 rebounds a game made a grand total of 14 shots.  He made less than 1 basket a game.  Boston is definitely going to need more than that from their back up center next season.

As for Wallace, he shot less than 30% from 3 in the regular season AND in the Finals.

Sure, that's great. But the fact is that both of those guys were there and required a defender to step out with them on the perimeter.

Steve Nash didn't win with Shaq. Steve Nash didn't win without Shaq.

So back to my original point, what did Shaq expose exactly, then?

LeBron James did manage to have the best record in the league with Shaq.

He managed exactly the same feat without Shaq as well, so that's not much of an argument.

Again, Shaq's stats last year.

12 points, 6.7 rebounds, 1.2 blocks, 1.5 assists in the regular season in 23.4 minutes a game.

11.5 points, 5.5 rebounds, 1.2 blocks, 1.4 assists in the playoffs in 22.1 minutes a game.

So he scored 12 points in 20 minutes? Your point? As it was already pointed out to you, if Shaq has to play 20 minutes on the Celtics, we're in trouble. It's pretty obvious that you don't agree with this, but quoting Shaq's stats all the time really doesn't make your argument any stronger.

The skinny is as follows: there are 10 to 15 minutes for Shaq on the Celtics, as a backup C. If he's willing to take the minimum, play his role, and stop acting as if he's still the greatest thing since sliced bread, great. If no, then good luck to him and whatever awful NBA team he chooses to sign with.

[kozlodoev]

Or maybe if Shaq was on the team he gets everybody to cut the crap and we don't have the chemistry problems that caused Boston to be a .500 team the last 2/3rds of the season.

We had no chemistry problems that caused us to be a .500 team. 

As slowed down as he's gotten, Shaq also doesn't treat regular season games as an extended training camp the way Sheed did.

That's exciting, and also irrelevant. Having Sheed in full gear in the playoffs was much more important than the fact that he cruised through most of the regular season. Having Shaq in full gear at any point... pretty much irrelevant at this stage of his career.

[guava_wrench]

Who spread the floor when the Cs won the title in 2008?  PJ Brown?  I'd argue that Sheed didn't spread the floor that much as the season went on because he couldn't hit a three to save his life.

Yes, P.J. Brown did. He is actually able to hit a jump shot from outside 5 feet, unlike Shaq. Wallace shot 35% from three during the playoffs, and made teams pay for leaving him open.

Shaq didn't kill the Suns offense.  He just helped expose Steve Nash's limitations.

Like the limitation of being unable to win with a plodding 400 lbs. center with inflated ego and diminishing skills? Horrible. I would have been eager to see Shaq come to Boston and expose Rondo's limitations... if I weren't a Celtics fan.

And if Boston had had Shaq in game 7, they'd be raising another banner this fall cause there's NO WAY Boston gets manhandled on the boards with Shaq in the game.

If Boston had Shaq, they may not even have been in the finals.

If we had Shaq, the team probably implodes when we end the season with that tough run and Shaq starts running his mouth to point fingers.

Or maybe if Shaq was on the team he gets everybody to cut the crap and we don't have the chemistry problems that caused Boston to be a .500 team the last 2/3rds of the season.  As slowed down as he's gotten, Shaq also doesn't treat regular season games as an extended training camp the way Sheed did.

Mike

Cut the crap? What was that crap?

And how would he help? He has always been focused on himself. His reaction would be "we are losing because they aren't starting me". How does that help?

[Birdbrain]

Or maybe if Shaq was on the team he gets everybody to cut the crap and we don't have the chemistry problems that caused Boston to be a .500 team the last 2/3rds of the season.

We had no chemistry problems that caused us to be a .500 team. 

As slowed down as he's gotten, Shaq also doesn't treat regular season games as an extended training camp the way Sheed did.

That's exciting, and also irrelevant. Having Sheed in full gear in the playoffs was much more important than the fact that he cruised through most of the regular season. Having Shaq in full gear at any point... pretty much irrelevant at this stage of his career.

I wish Doc and some of the players realized when they makes comments like ' everyone wasn't on the same page due to injuries ' that it's going to extrapolated to chemistry issues...  I read on here Pierce and Rondo hate each other which was the chemistry issues that Doc was referencing when he said  ' everyone wasn't on the same page due to injuries '.  You really have to do a better job of reading between the lines.

[hpantazo]

In the playoffs that year, PJ was 26 of 56 from the field.  He had 0 baskets and 5 rebounds TOTAL in the Atlanta series.  He had 5 baskets and 19 boards TOTAL in the Cleveland series.

And in 18 regular season games for Boston, PJ averaged less than 3 rebounds a game made a grand total of 14 shots.  He made less than 1 basket a game.  Boston is definitely going to need more than that from their back up center next season.

As for Wallace, he shot less than 30% from 3 in the regular season AND in the Finals.

Sure, that's great. But the fact is that both of those guys were there and required a defender to step out with them on the perimeter.

This is one key point the Mike doesn't seem to get. Sheed and PJ Brown required their defenders to stay with them away from the basket, creating space for other guys to operate, Shaq does the opposite. This is a very important issue with Shaq, This, and the fact that team defense goes in the toilet when he;s out there because he can't rotate or cover pick and roles, and this celtics team is based primarily on the strength of it's team defense. These are the main reasons we gave the MLE to Jermaine Oneal and not Shaq, and why I would be glad to have Sheed come back instead of trading him for Shaq.

[MBunge]

In the playoffs that year, PJ was 26 of 56 from the field.  He had 0 baskets and 5 rebounds TOTAL in the Atlanta series.  He had 5 baskets and 19 boards TOTAL in the Cleveland series.

And in 18 regular season games for Boston, PJ averaged less than 3 rebounds a game made a grand total of 14 shots.  He made less than 1 basket a game.  Boston is definitely going to need more than that from their back up center next season.

As for Wallace, he shot less than 30% from 3 in the regular season AND in the Finals.

Sure, that's great. But the fact is that both of those guys were there and required a defender to step out with them on the perimeter.

Steve Nash didn't win with Shaq. Steve Nash didn't win without Shaq.

So back to my original point, what did Shaq expose exactly, then?

LeBron James did manage to have the best record in the league with Shaq.

He managed exactly the same feat without Shaq as well, so that's not much of an argument.

Again, Shaq's stats last year.

12 points, 6.7 rebounds, 1.2 blocks, 1.5 assists in the regular season in 23.4 minutes a game.

11.5 points, 5.5 rebounds, 1.2 blocks, 1.4 assists in the playoffs in 22.1 minutes a game.

So he scored 12 points in 20 minutes? Your point? As it was already pointed out to you, if Shaq has to play 20 minutes on the Celtics, we're in trouble. It's pretty obvious that you don't agree with this, but quoting Shaq's stats all the time really doesn't make your argument any stronger.

The skinny is as follows: there are 10 to 15 minutes for Shaq on the Celtics, as a backup C. If he's willing to take the minimum, play his role, and stop acting as if he's still the greatest thing since sliced bread, great. If no, then good luck to him and whatever awful NBA team he chooses to sign with.

If spreading the [dang] court was the only thing that mattered, then Nash and the Suns would have won about 8 titles in a row.  If you're going to disregard Shaq's superior scoring and superior rebounding and fixate on spreading the [dang] floor as the only thing that matters, it's a good thing you're not actually a coach in the NBA.

What Shaq exposed is what everyone should have already known before giving Nash his two bogus MVPs.  The style of basketball that Nash has to play in order to be personally effective is not a style that's ever going to win a title.

I'd say quoting Shaq's stats is a pretty good argument because you haven't even come close to disputing it with anything less lame than "but, but, but he won't spread the floor!"

As for Shaq's minutes, Jermaine O'Neal played 28.4 minutes a game last year for Miami.  Unless you think playing him a lot more than that is a great idea, there's an automatic 15 to 20 minutes a game for Shaq right there.  Maybe if you stopped and actually thought about this stuff for a second, you might not demonstrate such ignorance.

Seriously, did Shaq sleep with your wife or run over your dog?  I don't want Shaq as a starter for 6 to 8 million a year, but you act like you'd rather have Rasho Nesterovic for the vet min than Shaq as a back up for 3 to 4 million.

Mike