Author Topic: Shaq wants to be a Celtic  (Read 85672 times)

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Re: Shaq wants to be a Celtic
« Reply #225 on: July 26, 2010, 11:20:59 AM »

Offline MBunge

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How about this deal.

Boston trades -

Sheed (6.3 million)
Perk (4.3 million)
Davis (3.3 million)
Avery Bradley (1 million)
Scal (sign-n-trade 1 year, 2 million)
#1 round pick
total 15.9 million dollars

Cleveland trades -
Varejao (7.2 million)
Moon (3 million)
Parker (2.8 million)
Shaq (sign-n-trade 2 years, 6 million)
total 16 million dollars

Cleveland gets out from under Varejao's deal, gets some decent young talent in Bradley and Davis, gets a #1 and increases their chances of sucking their way to a high lottery pick next year.


Boston takes on Varejao's long-term deal, but becomes the deepest team with the best foursome of bigs in the league.

Mike

Re: Shaq wants to be a Celtic
« Reply #226 on: July 26, 2010, 11:24:20 AM »

Offline Jon

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It's a mixed bag for me with Moon/Parker.  On one hand, Moon has better height, better athleticism, and is younger.  In that regard, he'd be more useful against the LeBron James's of the world.  

On the other hand, Parker is the better offensive player, having a much better jumper and able to create some offense of his own.  He, however, is a month older than Ray Allen.  

I think ultimately I'd probably prefer Parker.  With Daniels back in the fold, we have a greater need for a shooter off the bench.  Plus, Daniels has done as good of a job on LeBron as anyone can expect over the years, so I feel confident that Daniels can handle SFs that Parker can't.  

As for Shaq, I know we can compare him statistically to Perk and what not, but imagine the effect he'd have playing with our starters, whether off the bench or not.  Perk shot 60% primarily on open looks, and even then he'd often botch dunks and layups because of that stupid dribble he takes before he goes up every time.  Imagine if Shaq is getting those easy passes down low.  Either he shoots 80% from the field (and I don't think that's an exaggeration) OR he shoots a comparable figure to Perk but makes everyone else around him better due to the defensive attention he commands.  

Re: Shaq wants to be a Celtic
« Reply #227 on: July 26, 2010, 11:39:23 AM »

Offline ssspence

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question: let's say shaq was S&T'd to the Cs for a year at 4 mil -- along with Jamerio Moon -- for Sheed's deal and cash and / or a pick.

would folks be satisfied?




I'd rather see Anthony Parker traded here, since he's a better shooter and is more capable of playing both SG/SF.  I don't really worry that much about the money; if Wyc is willing to cut the check, perfect.

interesting you'd rather have parker. i think of moon as the better defender -- would you agree?


He's a better defender against small forwards, and is more of a leaper.  Parker is better against SGs, though, I think, and his SF defense is probably average.

well of course i have the image of moon going up for alley-oops from rondo, but at the end of the day parkers shooting may be more valuable. what's most important to me is the defensive end, and i felt like last year parker had lost a step.

another guy who can play some defense at the 2 is kyle weaver, who should be readily available considering OKC has 16 players right now. don't really see him as a rotation guy but insurance, especially if bradley proves capable of defending 2s. trade lafayette (immediately cut) and a protected 2nd to presti for him...
Mike

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Re: Shaq wants to be a Celtic
« Reply #228 on: July 26, 2010, 12:02:35 PM »

Offline Andy Jick

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The bottom line is this...

- Perk is out for a good portion of this season.  For a guy his size, who knows how well or quickly his rehab will go, or what kind of shape he will be in once he does come back.  So, IMO you might as well count on nothing from him this upcoming season, quite possibly beyond.  He might never be the same...

- Is anyone really willing to go to battle this season with an aging O'Neal, an unproven Erden, and an undersized Davis at the center position?  Please...  That's a joke.  We need more help in the middle...

- We can quibble all day about statistical analysis of Shaq's effectiveness at this point in his career, but we can all see with out own eyes (without the need of calculators) that he's on the downside of his career.  BUT, he can still be effective at helping this team, and just maybe what he needs is to break away from the LeBron show and play for a team that really needs him, and truly has championship aspirations. 

If he will come at a fair price, even if it takes 2 years, I'd bring him in.  There is NO WAY that Shaq will hinder our team.  I see signing him as a win-win situation for he and us...  We need him here.
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Re: Shaq wants to be a Celtic
« Reply #229 on: July 26, 2010, 12:10:19 PM »

Offline Ed Teach

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Maybe I am over estimating Bradley but I would rather have Moon over Carter due to the fact that I see Bradley as the SG of the future.  He already has a decent outside shot and is a good defender. He has the talent to be a star in the NBA, he is just young.  He is only a year removed from high school ball, if he can adjust to the NBA game and learn how to create space using screens (he has a great example to follow); I see him being the SG on the 2nd unit. 
To me there is no room for a aging SG on this team, we already have the best one in the game.

Re: Shaq wants to be a Celtic
« Reply #230 on: July 26, 2010, 12:32:26 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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Marcin Gortat got the full MLE and averaged 3 points and 4 rebounds for Orlando last year.
So because the Magic were idiots and overpaid Gortat, it's going to be ok if we do it with Shaq? Interesting logic.

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Re: Shaq wants to be a Celtic
« Reply #231 on: July 26, 2010, 12:36:53 PM »

Offline Birdbrain

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I have no problem with Shaq coming off the pine for 10-15 minutes a game to wreak havoc against second-string centers who can neither stop him, nor exploit the fact he's a defensive liability. That's a role that's worth the pro-rated minimum.

No, it's not.  Shaq should absolutely come off the bench for Boston, but that doesn't mean he's only worth the vet min.  Marcin Gortat got the full MLE and averaged 3 points and 4 rebounds for Orlando last year.  You know what bigs get the vet min?  Guys like Aaron Gray who have career averages of 11 minutes, 3.8 points and 3.3 rebounds.

Are you saying Shaq isn't better than Aaron Gray?  Seriously?

Mike

I have to agree.  If he's willing to play that role it's still going to take a S&T to get him here.  He's not coming for the vet min. and really he shouldn't.  Would I love him too yes but, like Mike mentioned he's still much better than your common vet min Center.
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Re: Shaq wants to be a Celtic
« Reply #232 on: July 26, 2010, 12:37:19 PM »

Offline Fafnir

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Marcin Gortat got the full MLE and averaged 3 points and 4 rebounds for Orlando last year.
So because the Magic were idiots and overpaid Gortat, it's going to be ok if we do it with Shaq? Interesting logic.


Gortat also doesn't get any minutes because he's stuck behind the best Center in the league.

He's a bad example for your point. Also Dallas was the team that signed him to such a big deal, and lots of other teams were also lining up. He's also on the upside of his career, he's not a good analogy for Shaq....

Re: Shaq wants to be a Celtic
« Reply #233 on: July 26, 2010, 12:38:33 PM »

Offline Eddie20

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Marcin Gortat got the full MLE and averaged 3 points and 4 rebounds for Orlando last year.
So because the Magic were idiots and overpaid Gortat, it's going to be ok if we do it with Shaq? Interesting logic.

They weren't the only ones that wanted Gortat. If you recall the Magic matched the offer sheet made by the Mavs. I think the majority of teams would offer a 26 year old big man, who defends and rebounds, that contract.

As for his stats,  they came in just 13.4 MPG. Give him 30 minutes and he's around double-double territory.


Re: Shaq wants to be a Celtic
« Reply #234 on: July 26, 2010, 12:43:45 PM »

Offline Birdbrain

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How about this deal.

Boston trades -

Sheed (6.3 million)
Perk (4.3 million)
Davis (3.3 million)
Avery Bradley (1 million)
Scal (sign-n-trade 1 year, 2 million)
#1 round pick
total 15.9 million dollars

Cleveland trades -
Varejao (7.2 million)
Moon (3 million)
Parker (2.8 million)
Shaq (sign-n-trade 2 years, 6 million)
total 16 million dollars

Cleveland gets out from under Varejao's deal, gets some decent young talent in Bradley and Davis, gets a #1 and increases their chances of sucking their way to a high lottery pick next year.


Boston takes on Varejao's long-term deal, but becomes the deepest team with the best foursome of bigs in the league.

Mike

Wow, I guess you didn't actually agree with concept that LJ didn't have help.

I think I'll stick to as little amount of Cavs as it takes to get Shaq.
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Re: Shaq wants to be a Celtic
« Reply #235 on: July 26, 2010, 12:46:04 PM »

Offline Fafnir

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How about this deal.

Boston trades -

Sheed (6.3 million)
Perk (4.3 million)
Davis (3.3 million)
Avery Bradley (1 million)
Scal (sign-n-trade 1 year, 2 million)
#1 round pick
total 15.9 million dollars

Cleveland trades -
Varejao (7.2 million)
Moon (3 million)
Parker (2.8 million)
Shaq (sign-n-trade 2 years, 6 million)
total 16 million dollars

Cleveland gets out from under Varejao's deal, gets some decent young talent in Bradley and Davis, gets a #1 and increases their chances of sucking their way to a high lottery pick next year.


Boston takes on Varejao's long-term deal, but becomes the deepest team with the best foursome of bigs in the league.

Mike

Wow, I guess you didn't actually agree with concept that LJ didn't have help.

I think I'll stick to as little amount of Cavs as it takes to get Shaq.
Of all the Cavs big men the one you'd want is AV.

Shaq is the boobie prize, and Jamison would be finding dog poo on your shoe.

Re: Shaq wants to be a Celtic
« Reply #236 on: July 26, 2010, 12:47:56 PM »

Offline MBunge

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Marcin Gortat got the full MLE and averaged 3 points and 4 rebounds for Orlando last year.
So because the Magic were idiots and overpaid Gortat, it's going to be ok if we do it with Shaq? Interesting logic.


Again, Shaq averaged 12 points, 6.7 rebounds and 1.2 blocks on 23 minutes a game last season.  No matter how bad his pick-n-roll defense is, you think THAT'S only worth a vet min contract?

Mike  

Re: Shaq wants to be a Celtic
« Reply #237 on: July 26, 2010, 12:51:28 PM »

Offline Fafnir

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Marcin Gortat got the full MLE and averaged 3 points and 4 rebounds for Orlando last year.
So because the Magic were idiots and overpaid Gortat, it's going to be ok if we do it with Shaq? Interesting logic.


Again, Shaq averaged 12 points, 6.7 rebounds and 1.2 blocks on 23 minutes a game last season.  No matter how bad his pick-n-roll defense is, you think THAT'S only worth a vet min contract?

Mike  
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/tiny.cgi?id=Q8dos

To compare the two O'Neals. Shaqs problems are in the amount of minutes he'll demand and his overall poor defense. He's not going to accept being a backup C to Perkins or O'Neal.

Re: Shaq wants to be a Celtic
« Reply #238 on: July 26, 2010, 12:52:17 PM »

Offline Who

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Marcin Gortat got the full MLE and averaged 3 points and 4 rebounds for Orlando last year.
So because the Magic were idiots and overpaid Gortat, it's going to be ok if we do it with Shaq? Interesting logic.


Again, Shaq averaged 12 points, 6.7 rebounds and 1.2 blocks on 23 minutes a game last season.  No matter how bad his pick-n-roll defense is, you think THAT'S only worth a vet min contract?

Mike  
A player's value depends on the role he'll be asked to fill.

For the Celtics, I reckon Shaq would be worth $2-3 million as a fourth big man in the depth chart playing 10-15 minutes a night. Similar to BBD.

On another team, Shaq may be asked and ably fulfill the duties of a starter playing 22-28 minutes a night. I think he'd be worth around $5-6 million in that role.

Re: Shaq wants to be a Celtic
« Reply #239 on: July 26, 2010, 12:53:29 PM »

Offline MBunge

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Marcin Gortat got the full MLE and averaged 3 points and 4 rebounds for Orlando last year.
So because the Magic were idiots and overpaid Gortat, it's going to be ok if we do it with Shaq? Interesting logic.


Again, Shaq averaged 12 points, 6.7 rebounds and 1.2 blocks on 23 minutes a game last season.  No matter how bad his pick-n-roll defense is, you think THAT'S only worth a vet min contract?

Mike  
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/tiny.cgi?id=Q8dos

To compare the two O'Neals. Shaqs problems are in the amount of minutes he'll demand and his overall poor defense. He's not going to accept being a backup C to Perkins or O'Neal.

If Shaq isn't willing to come off the bench, then he's not a good fit for Boston.

Mike