Marvin Williams on the block

[Jon Niednagel]

Yes.

He's got a decent corner three, plus defender, fits well with our current roster. Full MLE to a big, a vet min big, then roll.

Can't argue with any of that. Agree 100%.

[wdleehi]

This was my first idea when I started the "If Wallace retires" thread.


Atlanta can replace him for less with Childress.

[rav123]

Yeah, he's pretty good. I'd like someone who is a 2/3 rather than a 3/4 (like Marvin). Maybe Morrow, or Mike Miller (with the MLE, and Sheed is used to get a big man)

Williams still has potential though, and he's young and athletic - he could be a good piece for the future (then again, the same could be said for Morrow)

[Cman]

Yes.

He's got a decent corner three, plus defender, fits well with our current roster. Full MLE to a big, a vet min big, then roll.

Can't argue with any of that. Agree 100%.

Yeah, sign me up for that.  I'd also want to resign either Nate or Tony (or both) to give us a little depth at the 1/2.  All of this is of course assuming that Ray Allen is resigned.

[Mike-Dub]

Yes.

He's got a decent corner three, plus defender, fits well with our current roster. Full MLE to a big, a vet min big, then roll.

Can't argue with any of that. Agree 100%.

Yeah, sign me up for that.  I'd also want to resign either Nate or Tony (or both) to give us a little depth at the 1/2.  All of this is of course assuming that Ray Allen is resigned.

I'd like to land Williams through a Sheed contract trade and then get Haywood with the MLE, but in this market Haywood is worth more than MLE so I don't know how realistic that is.  Otherwise I like your scenario of signing a big with the vet min.

[ssspence]

The Williams idea is an intreging one. Would you rather have Childress? There's the chance ATL could dump Williams after the Cs signed Childress to an offer sheet which would waste the Cs time and leave them in the lerch.

Don't agree that Haywood is worth more than the MLE. He'll probably get the full MLE. Would the Cs go that far to get him? I bet if they could get Brad Miller for half that they'd prefer him. Save some room for Rasual Butler.

[Mike-Dub]

The Williams idea is an intreging one. Would you rather have Childress? There's the chance ATL could dump Williams after the Cs signed Childress to an offer sheet which would waste the Cs time and leave them in the lerch.

Don't agree that Haywood is worth more than the MLE. He'll probably get the full MLE. Would the Cs go that far to get him? I bet if they could get Brad Miller for half that they'd prefer him. Save some room for Rasual Butler.

Why would you want Brad Miller for half the MLE and Rasual Butler, if like you are saying the C's could get Marvin Williams or Josh Childress through Sheed's contract and then Haywood with the MLE.

Which in this market with most of the teams overpaying is worth more than the MLE (Any other year when teams didn't have so much to pay he would be less).

[ssspence]

The Williams idea is an intreging one. Would you rather have Childress? There's the chance ATL could dump Williams after the Cs signed Childress to an offer sheet which would waste the Cs time and leave them in the lerch.

Don't agree that Haywood is worth more than the MLE. He'll probably get the full MLE. Would the Cs go that far to get him? I bet if they could get Brad Miller for half that they'd prefer him. Save some room for Rasual Butler.

Why would you want Brad Miller for half the MLE and Rasual Butler, if like you are saying the C's could get Marvin Williams or Josh Childress through Sheed's contract and then Haywood with the MLE.

Which in this market with most of the teams overpaying is worth more than the MLE (Any other year when teams didn't have so much to pay he would be less).

Because I think 5 years of Haywood at the MLE is overpaying. Have we forgotton a guy named Kendrick Perkins? Might wanna save that money for him.

[Mike-Dub]

The Williams idea is an intreging one. Would you rather have Childress? There's the chance ATL could dump Williams after the Cs signed Childress to an offer sheet which would waste the Cs time and leave them in the lerch.

Don't agree that Haywood is worth more than the MLE. He'll probably get the full MLE. Would the Cs go that far to get him? I bet if they could get Brad Miller for half that they'd prefer him. Save some room for Rasual Butler.

Why would you want Brad Miller for half the MLE and Rasual Butler, if like you are saying the C's could get Marvin Williams or Josh Childress through Sheed's contract and then Haywood with the MLE.

Which in this market with most of the teams overpaying is worth more than the MLE (Any other year when teams didn't have so much to pay he would be less).

Because I think 5 years of Haywood at the MLE is overpaying. Have we forgotton a guy named Kendrick Perkins? Might wanna save that money for him.

If it is for five years then yes I would rather do your plan.  If it is a deal like Sheeds contract then no sign Haywood.

[kozlodoev]

Because I think 5 years of Haywood at the MLE is overpaying. Have we forgotton a guy named Kendrick Perkins? Might wanna save that money for him.

First, Perkins is injured, and with three partial tendon tears in the knee of a 280 lb guy, there is no telling when he's coming back, and how good he will be.

Second, Haywood is big and skilled. He'll earn his keep whether as a starter or as the first big coming off the bench.

Third, signing Haywood to the MLE does not in any way affect Perkins' situation, given that we hold his Bird rights. You absolutely need at least two capable seven footers in the center rotation, and players of Haywood's skill command the MLE easily.

[ssspence]

Because I think 5 years of Haywood at the MLE is overpaying. Have we forgotton a guy named Kendrick Perkins? Might wanna save that money for him.

First, Perkins is injured, and with three partial tendon tears in the knee of a 280 lb guy, there is no telling when he's coming back, and how good he will be.

Second, Haywood is big and skilled. He'll earn his keep whether as a starter or as the first big coming off the bench.

Third, signing Haywood to the MLE does not in any way affect Perkins' situation, given that we hold his Bird rights. You absolutely need at least two capable seven footers in the center rotation, and players of Haywood's skill command the MLE easily.

Perk's hurt? When did that happen?

Can you provide me an example of a 31 year old who signed a full MLE deal, and actually played starting caliber basketball for even half of it?

[kozlodoev]

Because I think 5 years of Haywood at the MLE is overpaying. Have we forgotton a guy named Kendrick Perkins? Might wanna save that money for him.

First, Perkins is injured, and with three partial tendon tears in the knee of a 280 lb guy, there is no telling when he's coming back, and how good he will be.

Second, Haywood is big and skilled. He'll earn his keep whether as a starter or as the first big coming off the bench.

Third, signing Haywood to the MLE does not in any way affect Perkins' situation, given that we hold his Bird rights. You absolutely need at least two capable seven footers in the center rotation, and players of Haywood's skill command the MLE easily.

Perk's hurt? When did that happen?

Can you provide me an example of a 31 year old who signed a full MLE deal, and actually played starting caliber basketball for even half of it?

Not to nitpick, but Haywood will not turn 31 until the season starts.

Also, I didn't say he will play starting caliber basketball for the entire deal. I said he'll do enough to earn his keep (and his keep is a MLE caliber contract) for the duration, whether it's starting or being the first man off the bench for the duration of the contract.

I stand by this statement -- the NBA is full of examples of big men that have been efficient well into their mid-thirties -- McDyess, Camby, Shaq, Ilgauskas, to name the first four that come to mind. And remember, we're paying him the MLE -- not franchise player type of money. Not even a second banana type of money.

[ssspence]

Because I think 5 years of Haywood at the MLE is overpaying. Have we forgotton a guy named Kendrick Perkins? Might wanna save that money for him.

First, Perkins is injured, and with three partial tendon tears in the knee of a 280 lb guy, there is no telling when he's coming back, and how good he will be.

Second, Haywood is big and skilled. He'll earn his keep whether as a starter or as the first big coming off the bench.

Third, signing Haywood to the MLE does not in any way affect Perkins' situation, given that we hold his Bird rights. You absolutely need at least two capable seven footers in the center rotation, and players of Haywood's skill command the MLE easily.

Perk's hurt? When did that happen?

Can you provide me an example of a 31 year old who signed a full MLE deal, and actually played starting caliber basketball for even half of it?

Not to nitpick, but Haywood will not turn 31 until the season starts.

Also, I didn't say he will play starting caliber basketball for the entire deal. I said he'll do enough to earn his keep (and his keep is a MLE caliber contract) for the duration, whether it's starting or being the first man off the bench for the duration of the contract.

I stand by this statement -- the NBA is full of examples of big men that have been efficient well into their mid-thirties -- McDyess, Camby, Shaq, Ilgauskas, to name the first four that come to mind. And remember, we're paying him the MLE -- not franchise player type of money. Not even a second banana type of money.

So I guess that means you can't come up with one....

[Brendan]

So I guess that means you can't come up with one....

Hollinger basically said this same thing when discussing Gooden:

Additionally, the history of players in their late 20s who get the full midlevel exception or close to it is unrelentingly awful. Most of these players aren't stars to begin with, and most players of that type begin to decline rapidly in their late 20s and early 30s. As a result, we've seen a stream of Brian Cardinals, Morris Petersons and Antonio Danielses glued to the bench by the end of their contracts. Or in some cases, right at the beginning.

I'd go three years on an MLE big like Haywood, that's it.

I think they can get B. Miller below MLE and a serviceable guy at the vet min. I'm not as worried about depth at the SG, you can bring back Tony Allen or Nate, plus Pierce and Marvin can both play wing at the same time, and maybe AB can step in. So I'd plan to go with this rotation to start:

Rondo / Nate
R. Allen / (Nate or Pierce)
Pierce / Marvin
KG / BBD
MLE big / (BBD or Vet Min)

with BBD getting most of the backup minutes.

Depending how the MLE big works out, they can keep him as 6th man / 3rd big and let BBD walk after next year, or they can let Perk walk and keep MLE big as starting center.

If Perk comes back, he can work his way into the rotation slowly, but it's probably best if he and MLE have games that can coexist if possible. That's why Miller might be more of a fit than Haywood.