Kobe bryant being guarded by Rondo or TA = 42 touches , 1 hoop ?

[fairweatherfan]

I'm skeptical of the stat too, but Rondo does give Kobe fits on defense - he can pick Kobe's pocket better than anyone in the league. 

The downside is Kobe can just post Rajon up in the halfcourt.  But I think we should put Rondo on Kobe whenever Kobe is isoing late in a quarter.  Doc may have done this intentionally late in Game 2, but I'm not sure.

I don't like that match up, because Kobe will draw  double in the post. He did this at least once in the series and got a wide open shot for a team mate when help came for Rondo down low.

That's what I'm saying - we can't put Rondo on him for stretches because he'll start posting and we'll have to double. 

But in a late-quarter situation with Kobe bringing the ball up we should put Rondo on him, because he couldn't post Rondo without giving the ball up and getting it back, which he's reluctant to do.

[SalmonAndMashedPotatoes]

As for the veracity of this stat, it stands up if you understand how it's measured.  Kobe was 6 of 7 against Ray Allen in Game 1, and 4 of 15 against everyone else (including one that he got on TA).  In Game 2, Kobe didn't score on TA at all, and Kobe was either traveling, being forced into offensive fouls, or missing buckets against TA.

How does its veracity stand up if Kobe's multiple blow byes of Tonay in game 1 aren't counted against him?

I just don't see it, isn't Synergy on demo mode for the playoffs? I'd be interested to see the possession numbers when Tony starts out guarding Kobe on the wing.

Your eyes be wrong.  Kobe got to the rim twice against Tony in Game 1.  He made one and he missed the other (only to have Gasol follow it up for 2). 

Kobe didn't score on TA once in Game 2, though he did have several make-able looks that didn't fall.

[Roy Hobbs]

As for the veracity of this stat, it stands up if you understand how it's measured.  Kobe was 6 of 7 against Ray Allen in Game 1, and 4 of 15 against everyone else (including one that he got on TA).  In Game 2, Kobe didn't score on TA at all, and Kobe was either traveling, being forced into offensive fouls, or missing buckets against TA.

How does its veracity stand up if Kobe's multiple blow byes of Tonay in game 1 aren't counted against him?

I just don't see it, isn't Synergy on demo mode for the playoffs? I'd be interested to see the possession numbers when Tony starts out guarding Kobe on the wing.

Your eyes be wrong.  Kobe got to the rim twice against Tony in Game 1.  He made one and he missed the other (only to have Gasol follow it up for 2). 

Kobe didn't score on TA once in Game 2, though he did have several make-able looks that didn't fall.

Like Fafnir said, the stat is meaningless if it doesn't take into account plays where Tony gambles and winds up out of position, forcing another player to pick him up (so as to not give up a wide open basket.)

Regarding Game 1, who was guarding him on the play where Kobe made the shot with the shot clock winding down, and where Tony and Ray both went up to block the shot?  Tony was closer, but presumably, somehow that was Ray guarding him?

The stat makes no sense.  You can watch a four-minute highlight real and see at least three baskets Kobe scored on TA.  I'm not going to sit here and say they didn't happen, because ESPN's imaginary stat tells me they didn't.

[SalmonAndMashedPotatoes]

As for the veracity of this stat, it stands up if you understand how it's measured.  Kobe was 6 of 7 against Ray Allen in Game 1, and 4 of 15 against everyone else (including one that he got on TA).  In Game 2, Kobe didn't score on TA at all, and Kobe was either traveling, being forced into offensive fouls, or missing buckets against TA.

How does its veracity stand up if Kobe's multiple blow byes of Tonay in game 1 aren't counted against him?

I just don't see it, isn't Synergy on demo mode for the playoffs? I'd be interested to see the possession numbers when Tony starts out guarding Kobe on the wing.

Your eyes be wrong.  Kobe got to the rim twice against Tony in Game 1.  He made one and he missed the other (only to have Gasol follow it up for 2).  

Kobe didn't score on TA once in Game 2, though he did have several make-able looks that didn't fall.

Like Fafnir said, the stat is meaningless if it doesn't take into account plays where Tony gambles and winds up out of position, forcing another player to pick him up (so as to not give up a wide open basket.)

Regarding Game 1, who was guarding him on the play where Kobe made the shot with the shot clock winding down, and where Tony and Ray both went up to block the shot?  Tony was closer, but presumably, somehow that was Ray guarding him?

The stat makes no sense.  You can watch a four-minute highlight real and see at least three baskets Kobe scored on TA.  I'm not going to sit here and say they didn't happen, because ESPN's imaginary stat tells me they didn't.

Post that four-minute highlight reel and we'll debate it.  Until then, I take these contemptuous remarks with a grain of salt.

***EDIT***

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vd-Wkbg2zuA

Since it looks like you're backing away from this Roy, here's a 5 minutes highlight package of Game 1.  As you'll notice, Kobe scores once on TA, basically in a pick-and-roll situation where Perk gets blown by after the pick and Bryant gets the layup.  I'd count that as against TA because he was the primary defender, and Bryant used the pick to go to the rim.  And that's the only time in the entire highlight package that Kobe scores on TA.

As for this play:

Regarding Game 1, who was guarding him on the play where Kobe made the shot with the shot clock winding down, and where Tony and Ray both went up to block the shot?  Tony was closer, but presumably, somehow that was Ray guarding him?

That's in the highlight package as well and yes Ray was the primary defender.  As the highlights show, it was a jump ball situation in which TA tried to step in a steal the tip.  The step-in brought him onto Bryant (who was matched up against Ray), who rose up and shot the ball over both Ray and Tony.  Tony was the help defender on that play.

As for this:

That seems like a ridiculous way of looking at things.  Even from watching the highlights, I saw three Kobe baskets when he was guarded by Tony in Game 1, so I'm just at a loss regarding what this stat is documenting.

Which baskets were you referring to?  Because I don't see them.

[fairweatherfan]

ESPN has some new stats on the TA-Kobe matchup today.  According to their stat guys:

- Kobe is 5-19 (27%) with TA guarding him.
- TA is denying Kobe the ball better - Kobe gets touches on 88% of Laker possessions without TA on him, and "only" 79.5% with TA on him.
- All 19 FGA against TA have been challenged shots; he's gotten 8 uncontested shots against everyone else.

Article is here.   Great work by TA so far!

[Brendan]

I think Ray and TA both do a great job on Kobe. They make him work hard and take tough shots. He hasn't been getting to the rim too often (IMO - didn't check shot chart), he has been making ridiculous long shots, but you cannot stop that. It does seem to frustrate Gasol when he goes into ball hog mode and the rest of the team seems to get cold. I also like that TA has the speed to jump out and deny the pass. That frustrates Kobe (again IMO) more than just straight up good D.

[Roy Hobbs]

I think Tony is the best defender on Kobe, but Ray is the best SG for the Celtics, due to his floor spacing.  Both Ray and Tony have been making Kobe work hard.

I will say, I've earned a bit of a new found respect for Kobe's game, though.  Some of the shots he can make are disgustingly sick.  I know, I'm a bit late to the party on that, but the Celts have such a tendency to take him out of his game that you rarely see that stuff.  (I still hate Kobe the person and Kobe the teammate, though.)

[Brendan]

I think Tony is the best defender on Kobe, but Ray is the best SG for the Celtics, due to his floor spacing.  Both Ray and Tony have been making Kobe work hard.

I will say, I've earned a bit of a new found respect for Kobe's game, though.  Some of the shots he can make are disgustingly sick.  I know, I'm a bit late to the party on that, but the Celts have such a tendency to take him out of his game that you rarely see that stuff.  (I still hate Kobe the person and Kobe the teammate, though.)

We're on the same page. I think the solution for Doc is to play some Allen Brother Wings lineups (like last night), give Ray a blow when Kobe is in... using TA and RA as guards and Pierce at SF is not as useful as against CLE or MIA - because it plays into LAL having Fish on Ray, and Kobe on someone he can cheat off - except its REALLY easy to cheat off Tony.

Tony would help the cause running the baseline and pretending he's going to post up, rather than hanging up high beyond the three point line. (They seem to be having Tony move only secondary to the play they are running - I think he needs to make a lot more cuts when they are setting up the play.)

[bobdelt]

I think Tony is the best defender on Kobe, but Ray is the best SG for the Celtics, due to his floor spacing.  Both Ray and Tony have been making Kobe work hard.

I will say, I've earned a bit of a new found respect for Kobe's game, though.  Some of the shots he can make are disgustingly sick.  I know, I'm a bit late to the party on that, but the Celts have such a tendency to take him out of his game that you rarely see that stuff.  (I still hate Kobe the person and Kobe the teammate, though.)

We're on the same page. I think the solution for Doc is to play some Allen Brother Wings lineups (like last night), give Ray a blow when Kobe is in... using TA and RA as guards and Pierce at SF is not as useful as against CLE or MIA - because it plays into LAL having Fish on Ray, and Kobe on someone he can cheat off - except its REALLY easy to cheat off Tony.

Tony would help the cause running the baseline and pretending he's going to post up, rather than hanging up high beyond the three point line. (They seem to be having Tony move only secondary to the play they are running - I think he needs to make a lot more cuts when they are setting up the play.)

I like this a lot, because I feel like we should always have at least one scoring starter on the court at all times. Game 3 we didnt really do that and fell apart in the 2nd qtr.