If I'm a Cavs fan I'm.....

[PosImpos]

- realizing Lebron is overhyped, sending emails to Sprite and Nike to tell them if they keep using him in commercials I won't buy their stuff, and lowering my expectations. He's not Kobe or Duncan and probably won't ever be.

I can't being to tell you how wrong this is.  And don't give me the Kobe wins championships BS either.  He needed young Shaq, Gasol and Phil Jackson to win.

Lebron has been relying on Mike Brown. 

Yeah, I agree.  To be fair to LeBron, practically nobody, no matter how good they are, wins without at least a decent coach and a great second fiddle.

Kobe doesn't win without Shaq / Pau and Phil Jackson, Jordan probably doesn't win without Pippen, Bird doesn't win without McHale and Parrish, etc.

[Eja117]

Both Duncan and Hakeem won a ring with pretty much no help whatsoever.

Also we can see the effect some guys had by what happened to their team after they left.

Shaq leaves the Magic.....tiiiimmmmbbbeeerrr

Shaq leaves the Lakers.....hello Kobe. Welcome to the 8th seed.

Shaq leaves Miami....kersplat....oh hey. We just won the draft lottery

Shaq gets old. Leaves the Suns....way better

Shaq goes to the Cavs...they don't really get much better or worse.


Both Magic and Bird instantly made their teams into very very good teams the second they showed up.


Didn't Kareem do that too? Showed up and suddenly the Bucks had their only championship?

Lebron can make a team relevant immediately, but he can't close even though he should.

I wouldn't be complaining if he had gone to game 6 or 7 against the Magic.  But he didn't. He folded

I don't understand why people are being revisionist about this. One week it's the Cavs are the best team in the game, and the next week, it's weeelllll Lebron has no supporting cast and Mike Brown is bad. Didn't the Cavs handle the Celts just fine in the regular season?

[PosImpos]

Both Duncan and Hakeem won a ring with pretty much no help whatsoever.

Also we can see the effect some guys had by what happened to their team after they left.

Shaq leaves the Magic.....tiiiimmmmbbbeeerrr

Shaq leaves the Lakers.....hello Kobe. Welcome to the 8th seed.

Shaq leaves Miami....kersplat....oh hey. We just won the draft lottery

Shaq gets old. Leaves the Suns....way better

Shaq goes to the Cavs...they don't really get much better or worse.


Both Magic and Bird instantly made their teams into very very good teams the second they showed up.


Didn't Kareem do that too? Showed up and suddenly the Bucks had their only championship?

Lebron can make a team relevant immediately, but he can't close even though he should.

I wouldn't be complaining if he had gone to game 6 or 7 against the Magic.  But he didn't. He folded

I don't understand why people are being revisionist about this. One week it's the Cavs are the best team in the game, and the next week, it's weeelllll Lebron has no supporting cast and Mike Brown is bad. Didn't the Cavs handle the Celts just fine in the regular season?

Duncan had Robinson, Ginobili, and Parker.  Those guys do not count as "pretty much no help whatsoever."  Let's not forget about Popovich either.  I can't really speak to what kind of help Hakeem had.

Your points about Shaq aren't that effective...all you've proven is that when the best player leaves and the second guy becomes the best player on the team, it's tough for that team to succeed.  Surprise?  The Lakers did make it to the Finals a couple times after Shaq left and before they acquired Pau.  Miami's problems post-Shaq can be traced in large part to Wade's injury problems.  

So yes, Shaq + Kobe or Shaq + Wade = championship, but Kobe + nobody and Wade + nobody = decent at best.  Well, there you go.

[lon3lytoaster]

I just made a bet; if LeBron leaves, there isn't even going to be a Cleveland afterwards.